Did Jesus fail????

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Or could it be I see something that they do not see? :)

Matthew 23:13 --- What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.
 
The problem is that you are so deep rooted in religion that you cannot see anything else! Grace is completely hid from the eyes of anyone who is still under the law (Moses's veil)! until you denounce the law, you will always be "amazed" by what Grace teaches; bc Grace it almost to good to be true, yet it is true.

Following the false doctrines of carnally minded men like JP is religion, I follow the words and Spirit of God which dwells in me, this is a relationship with God. And to suggest I am under the law of Moses is a straw man tactic which is constantly propped up by the "hyper grace" crowd because they cannot refute the words of God. And denouncing the words of God will not bring salvation, but rather believing in every word of God will. And remember, if one is truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you, but some have not this knowledge, nor do they believe it. :)
 
Matthew 23:13 --- What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.

[h=1]Matthew 23:13[/h] [SUP]13 [/SUP]But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.


Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
 
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Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth I know for a fact Jesus did not fail. But what is amazing to me is all the people who support and defend the words of this Joseph Prince in the OP over and above the words of Jesus Christ concerning truly being set free from sin. Very telling indeed.

This also confirms to me that the falling away from the faith is in full swing. :)


heavenly_bound;2825574 said:
could it be bc they see something that you do not yet see? The problem is that you are so deep rooted in religion that you cannot see anything else! Grace is completely hid from the eyes of anyone who is still under the law (Moses's veil)! until you denounce the law, you will always be "amazed" by what Grace teaches; bc Grace it almost to good to be true, yet it is true

.

Amen...religion will always miss grace of the gospel of Christ for their own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset
.

There is no greater revelation then Christ and what He and the Father have done for us because of their great love for us. They do not use the tools of guilt, shame and condemnation. Those are the tools of the "accuser of the brethren".



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Matthew 23:13

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.


Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

2 Timothy 4:2 --- Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
 
Galatians 5:22-25 --- But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives.
 
I am going to post Romans 6 to show we can in fact be set free from sin that works in our members....

Romans 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and upset their faith.

They even say that if one sins - they are not born of God and are of the devil. But when you corner them about their sin - they will not answer because that would mean that they too are not born of God according to their religion. They are simply ignorant of what John means in 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g.,
Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.



The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
 
Amen...religion will always miss grace of the gospel of Christ for their own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset.

There is that constant copy paste straw man again. Shew fly. :)
 
False hyper grace teacher Joseph Prince says this....

But Jesus said this....John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Did Jesus fail as Joseph Prince says, or perhaps Joseph Prince does not truly know and believe in the power of God to actually set one free from sin and sinful thoughts?


Your motive of posting this thread is contradicting to what you say you believe and practice. If you truly preach the gospel then preach it. You seem like you spend so much time in here debunking someone else's message that you end up wasting too much of your precious time actually preaching the gospel yourself. Why not preach what you know and not spend too much time criticizing someone else's preaching. Do some actual work of your own brother.

Matthew 7:5 --- ...First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

Take some time off and relax a bit, take Jesus as your rest. Trust in God a little and lighten up.

Acts 5:39 --- But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!
 
ISIT, I agree with you in some things. I agree that it is wrong to say that I am a sinner who will continue in sin until my dying day. It's a defeatist attitude. It also stops me dead in my tracks and causes me to NOT lay behind what lays behind me and press on in my race to apprehend the very thing for which I was apprehended for, of Christ. It also causes me to not believe that if I abide in Him, I don't sin. I already know full well that if I don't abide (trust, rely on and look to) in Christ, I sin. The very moment I begin to trust and abide in something other than Him, I go down. But I cannot just say that my race of abiding in Him is rigged so that it is impossible. I run my race to abide with the thought that all things are possible with God. I believe that He can slay ALL the enemies in the land. I don't look at the giants of self love, self will, arrogance and pride and say they are too powerful for me because I believe I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me and trains my hands for battle. If I abide in Him, I will not sin, but if I don't abide in Him I will sin because whatever is not of faith/abiding in Him IS sin.
 
Romans 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound


The above is speaking about willfully living according to the sinful nature. For Scripture states the following for those who are in Christ:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us. "

We are covered sinners who are wrestling to overcome the sinful nature. The scripture that you quoted above is saying that though we are under grace we cannot use that as a license to continue *willfully* living according to the sinful nature. But as far as sin goes, we still sin but not willfully or at least we shouldn't be. Regarding this, Paul goes on to say:

"I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."
 
Your motive of posting this thread is contradicting to what you say you believe and practice. If you truly preach the gospel then preach it. You seem like you spend so much time in here debunking someone else's message that you end up wasting too much of your precious time actually preaching the gospel yourself. Why not preach what you know and not spend too much time criticizing someone else's preaching. Do some actual work of your own brother.

I see you are fairly new to the forum, and so you do not know of all the other threads I've posted in the past to edify the body of Christ. I just recently started to expose the many false teachings of Joseph Prince and "hyper grace" doctrine because of all the copy paste doctrines and videos that are being spammed on these particular forums for about a year now from his many followers.

I have been preaching the gospel since 2007 since receiving the anointing of the Holy Spirit and have made many threads/studies on many different sites not just this one. But you will not see me copy paste my studies from other men's material, because I do not follow the doctrines of men, nor did I receive my understanding in the words of God from any man.

But since this flood of false doctrine from Joseph Prince started about a year ago on this site I had to go online and search and see what this false teacher was actually teaching and saying so to know what I was up against. And then by quoting his words from other online sources I could then refute his false doctrine by the words of God, like I did in this thread. So that's about the only time you will see me posting links to other sites because it is necessary to know what these false teachers are actually preaching and quote them in order to refute their false doctrine by the words of God.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:5 "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. So it's also a good work to warn the flock of Christ when you see them being led astray by these many deceivers. :)
 
When someone never talks about Jesus and His love and grace but in all posts there is nothing but condemnation, demonic, death, sin and accursedness and evil and hatred - there is something wrong.

The gospel of the grace of Christ is never spoken of - the Lord Jesus and His beauty is never spoken about. All this speaks volumes to me.

Jesus in His own words had this to say about "this spirit".

Luke 9:54-56 (NASB)
[SUP]54 [/SUP]
When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"

[SUP]55 [/SUP] But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of
;

[SUP]56 [/SUP] for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."
 
People post videos and articles to show that what is being posted is in fact a mis-representing of what is really being said as has been shown in this thread by many.

It is "twisting" of what is really being said to make it "appear" something else entirely is being said.

When we see the context a quote is being given in - both before and after the quote - then we see the real truth - not the "twisting" of those that love to slander the gospel of Christ and others in the body of Christ.

It is a distortion to deceive people and to mask a person's malice and slander towards someone that they may not see eye to eye with on a subject. It is really an attack on the gospel of the grace of Christ.

Works-based salvationists hate the gospel of the grace of Christ because it exposes their religion for what it really is. It is ungodly behavior which tries to hide under the mask of "defending the faith".

Let's actually hear what the "horse himself" has to say about "sin shall not have dominion over you".

This will expose the lies and continued slander and malice being manifested by some and is clearly seen in this OP's attempt at maligning the gospel of the grace of Christ for us.

If the enemy can attack the messenger - then he can attack the message. it has been this way since Christ and it remains to this day.....selah



[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44[/video]
 
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I see you are fairly new to the forum, and so you do not know of all the other threads I've posted in the past to edify the body of Christ. I just recently started to expose the many false teachings of Joseph Prince and "hyper grace" doctrine because of all the copy paste doctrines and videos that are being spammed on these particular forums for about a year now from his many followers.

I have been preaching the gospel since 2007 since receiving the anointing of the Holy Spirit and have made many threads/studies on many different sites not just this one. But you will not see me copy paste my studies from other men's material, because I do not follow the doctrines of men, nor did I receive my understanding in the words of God from any man.

But since this flood of false doctrine from Joseph Prince started about a year ago on this site I had to go online and search and see what this false teacher was actually teaching and saying so to know what I was up against. And then by quoting his words from other online sources I could then refute his false doctrine by the words of God, like I did in this thread. So that's about the only time you will see me posting links to other sites because it is necessary to know what these false teachers are actually preaching and quote them in order to refute their false doctrine by the words of God.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:5 "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. So it's also a good work to warn the flock of Christ when you see them being led astray by these many deceivers. :)

You're right, I'm new to the forum. And I've read some of your posts and I tell you not everything you say have been edifying to the body of Christ. All who believe in Jesus as Christ are Christians too, they are also the body of Christ.

And with regards to preaching your own material, are you not even confident of the gospel you preach that you would actually spend a whole lot of time exposing everybody else's doctrine? Is exposing some other churches faults over doctrinal accuracy more important to you than actually preaching the gospel with love and grace? Don't you find that puzzling?

But if you really actually believe that what you are doing is God's calling for you then do it in a manner that will allow people to come to you and listen to the true gospel. It's a little sad but let me tell you that more often than not, you yourself can be blamed why so many people flock to "hyper grace" doctrines and not on the gospel that you intend to preach.

Still, bless you and may the peace of God be with you always.
 


The above is speaking about willfully living according to the sinful nature. For Scripture states the following for those who are in Christ:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us. "

We are covered sinners who are wrestling to overcome the sinful nature. The scripture that you quoted above is saying that though we are under grace we cannot use that as a license to continue *willfully* living according to the sinful nature. But as far as sin goes, we still sin but not willfully or at least we shouldn't be. Regarding this, Paul goes on to say:

"I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."
[/COLOR][/FONT]

Those who are truly "in Christ" are not still "in sin"for it is written in Him is no sin, so no not all scripture speaks of those who are already washed and who are in Christ referring to those who say "we have no sin". It is necessary to distinguish past, present and future when looking at those verses. Just as it is written "for all have sinned", which agrees with what you posted above "if we say we have no sin" it just proves this point "for all have sinned." So if anyone claims they have never sinned in the past, then we know this is not true by those words.

But this is not saying you cannot truly be set free from sin and cease from sin because that also contradicts Jesus words and Johns and even Pauls in Romans 6 and 8. As it is necessary to look at Romans 6 and 8 along with Romans 7 to see the whole picture of how we can indeed be set free from sin by the power of God.

And no one said it would not take a fight to overcome sin, but the Lord empowers you to be an overcomer if you are willing to resist temptation and stop sinning by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Here is a thread I wrote concerning the fight that immediately follows a new convert...

Some people may not understand the great spiritual battle that is, and has been ongoing for thousands of years now. But for each new individual believer and born again Christian there is a personal battle that is to be waged and won, if one is willing to fight the good fight of faith.


This battle between the mind of flesh and Spirit of God is the enmity that was shown in the very beginning, but this personal battle ground for each new believer takes place in the heart and mind after first being illuminated by the Spirit of God. It is written Hebrews 10:32 “But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;”


This battle against the saints by the Devil and his spirit is shown many times in scripture, and many of the saints were also prophesied to be overcome. Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” But some also would hold fast and endure unto the end, and be overcomers by the power given to them by God, and by the faith of Jesus Christ.


This spiritual battle and war that wars against the soul is mentioned several times in scripture.


Ephesians 6:12
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


Romans 7:23
“But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”


James 4:1
“From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?”


1 Peter 2:11
“Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;


2 Corinthians 10:3
-5 “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”


When a person is born again of God’s Spirit we are empowered by God to be able to resist sin, resist the Devil, and resist the wicked ways of the world, and even to bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. But this war and battle takes some effort on each believer’s part, as personal sacrifices need be made to overcome all these things.

Remember….

1 Corinthians 10:13 “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”
 
But if you really actually believe that what you are doing is God's calling for you then do it in a manner that will allow people to come to you and listen to the true gospel. It's a little sad but let me tell you that more often than not, you yourself can be blamed why so many people flock to "hyper grace" doctrines and not on the gospel that you intend to preach.

Still, bless you and may the peace of God be with you always.

Here is what I am doing, like it or not--->>>
Revelation 18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
 
People post videos and articles to show that what is being posted is in fact a mis-representing of what is really being said as has been shown in this thread by many.

It is "twisting" of what is really being said to make it "appear" something else entirely is being said.

When we see the context a quote is being given in - both before and after the quote - then we see the real truth - not the "twisting" of those that love to slander the gospel of Christ and others in the body of Christ.

It is a distortion to deceive people and to mask a person's malice and slander towards someone that they may not see eye to eye with on a subject. It is really an attack on the gospel of the grace of Christ.

Works-based salvationists hate the gospel of the grace of Christ because it exposes their religion for what it really is. It is ungodly behavior which tries to hide under the mask of "defending the faith".

Let's actually hear what the "horse himself" has to say about "sin shall not have dominion over you".

This will expose the lies and continued slander and malice being manifested by some and is clearly seen in this OP's attempt at maligning the gospel of the grace of Christ for us.

If the enemy can attack the messenger - then he can attack the message. it has been this way since Christ and it remains to this day.....selah



[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44[/video]

And this is what, the third time now you have posted this same video in this thread alone? I thought spamming outside material was against the forum rules??????? I guess the rules only apply to some? :)