Did Jesus fail????

[InSpiritInTruth]

Regardless of the above, we have two books and then some that tell us that we have been set free from the law.

What good is it to be set free from all laws if it does not set you free from sin and sinning? All that does is make a world of lawless sinners, for sin was in the world before the law. Set people free from sin and lawlessness, then you have a world of saints who are a law unto themselves, not a bunch of lawless sinners.

 

[Grace777x70]

If we don't understand the difference between being set free from "sin" ( the noun - which is in our flesh - Romans 7:17-23 ) and "sinning" the verb - then we will be continuing to make up these false doctrines of "sinless perfection in the flesh".

They even say that if one sins - they are not born of God and are of the devil. But when you corner them about their sin - they will not answer because that would mean that they too are not born of God according to their religion. They are simply ignorant of what John means in 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18

What does the scripture say about us that are now truly in Christ and being a child of God?

The son does remain forever in the house.


John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35[/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.

 

[Ahwatukee]

What good is it to be set free from all laws if it does not set you free from sin and sinning? All that does is make a world of lawless sinners, for sin was in the world before the law. Set people free from sin and lawlessness, then you have a world of saints who are a law unto themselves, not a bunch of lawless sinners.

How do you think that we are credited with righteousness, even though we are not righteous? Because Christ is our righteousness. God sees us as righteous because of our faith in Christ. The true believer in Christ is wrestling to always overcome the sinful nature and are being transformed into the image of Christ as we go from faith to faith. When the dead are raised and the living are changed, then we will be free of the sinful nature.

 

[Willie-T]

This is the carnal mentality of seeing is believing. Jesus says He can in fact set you free from sin, but the sinner says "I still sin every day so Jesus' words must not be true." So the sinner proclaims Jesus must be wrong, or has failed, because he judges the words of God by his own lack of belief and failures. This my friends is not of faith in the words of God, but is of doubt, and is of the Devil.

You can either believe the words of Jesus Christ as true, or believe the doctrine of sinners.

No, the only one here saying he is set free from sin is you. I am saying I am set free from the Eternal death that my sin caused. That was the whole point of Jesus dying for us....... Keeping the Law already made us "free from sinning"... but we all remain unable to keep the Law, to this very day.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth Well JP followers might twist this to say we are set free from the law, but clearly Jesus is talking about being set free from sin----->>>>>
John 8:31-36

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Clearly Jesus is talking about those who are in bondage to sin being servants of sin, and He being able to set them free from this bondage of sin and sinning, that is those who actually believe and abide in His words.

But, your whole premise goes right down the toilet because all of us have seen you sin right here on this forum, as you have seen us also do. So, where is the person who is set free from sinning? It sure ain't you or me, or anyone I know

.

This is revealing that their religion is not truth as they will have to admit because they too are sinning and that they are not born of God and are of the devil which this type of a mindset likes to point out.

I have asked these questions numerous times in the past but they are ignored and it is easy to see why - it exposes their religion for what it really is.

Quote:

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander and malice is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for a year or for however long. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living in the flesh" and as you call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and are of the devil and thus go to hell..is that right?

Unquote:

These questions easily expose this man-made religion of "sinless perfection in the flesh" and if someone does sin - that makes them a child of the devil. ...

This is spiritual nonsense and ignorance of the work of Christ which created a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness works-based religion that at it's core denies the very work of Christ for the believer.

They are making themselves a child of the devil because they are sinning in their slander and malice as well as a whole host of others sins. Of course this needs to be denied.....selah

 

[mpaper345]

How do you think that we are credited with righteousness, even though we are not righteous? Because Christ is our righteousness. God sees us as righteous because of our faith in Christ. The true believer in Christ is wrestling to always overcome the sinful nature and are being transformed into the image of Christ as we go from faith to faith. When the dead are raised and the living are changed, then we will be free of the sinful nature.

That is true,we never get rid of the sin nature,for even when we are saved,the flesh still wants to have its way,and we will be tempted,but by the Spirit we will abstain from fleshy pleasures,but we still have the capability to sin if we desire,and if we do sin,and we give it up,it can be forgiven,and we will never get rid of the sin nature until we are with Christ,but we do not have to heed the flesh if we do not want to,which the Spirit helps us with that.

Paul said that in the flesh there dwells no good thing,and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other,both battling for control of the person,and Paul said that when he does good,he notices evil is still with him,so it is no longer him that does it,but the sin of the flesh,which would be a temptation,for he is not saying he sinned,but evil is with him when he does good,so it is not him that wants it but the flesh trying to have its way,so with the flesh he serves sin,not that he is sinning,and with the mond he serves Christ.

The flesh will try to have its way throughout our walk with God,for that sin nature does not go away after we are saved,but that is no excuse for why we cannot avoid sin if we desire for that is what the Holy Spirit will help us to accomplish.

The problem is some people want to make excuses that we are only human so we will sin,and that we cannot avoid sin,but if we are saved,and received the Spirit,it is us that falls victim to that,but in reality if we do not want sin,and do not want to sin,we can achieve it by the Spirit.

Not saying I might not sin,for I am in the same situation as everybody else,and not above,but there is no excuses for by the Spirit we will avoid the pitfall of the flesh,and if we sin it is not because we are only human so we will sin,but we decided we wanted to sin,even though the power of the Holy Spirit was there to cause us not to sin,and God said when it comes to temptation,that He would not put upon us more than we can handle,and give us a way out of it,so in reality it should be easy to avoid sin.

But although we are only human so we will sin can be true,by the Spirit it is not true,but when we sin we are only human,and not acting as a spiritual being like we should.

 

[heavenly_bound]

I agree, I have asked at least one person to please stop quoting a person, or posting videos of him, But he says people thank him for posting those things, so he will not stop because of a few accusers..

I still say it would be easier to just say what we mean, Not post other people words.. It would stop most of these fights.

I am of the opinion that we can post other people's materials here as long as they are our mentor's materials. its easy to explain what your mentor says.

 

[Willie-T]

That is true,we never get rid of the sin nature,for even when we are saved,the flesh still wants to have its way,and we will be tempted,but by the Spirit we will abstain from fleshy pleasures,but we still have the capability to sin if we desire,and if we do sin,and we give it up,it can be forgiven,and we will never get rid of the sin nature until we are with Christ,but we do not have to heed the flesh if we do not want to,which the Spirit helps us with that.

Paul said that in the flesh there dwells no good thing,and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other,both battling for control of the person,and Paul said that when he does good,he notices evil is still with him,so it is no longer him that does it,but the sin of the flesh,which would be a temptation,for he is not saying he sinned,but evil is with him when he does good,so it is not him that wants it but the flesh trying to have its way,so with the flesh he serves sin,not that he is sinning,and with the mond he serves Christ.

The flesh will try to have its way throughout our walk with God,for that sin nature does not go away after we are saved,but that is no excuse for why we cannot avoid sin if we desire for that is what the Holy Spirit will help us to accomplish.

The problem is some people want to make excuses that we are only human so we will sin,and that we cannot avoid sin,but if we are saved,and received the Spirit,it is us that falls victim to that,but in reality if we do not want sin,and do not want to sin,we can achieve it by the Spirit.

Not saying I might not sin,for I am in the same situation as everybody else,and not above,but there is no excuses for by the Spirit we will avoid the pitfall of the flesh,and if we sin it is not because we are only human so we will sin,but we decided we wanted to sin,even though the power of the Holy Spirit was there to cause us not to sin,and God said when it comes to temptation,that He would not put upon us more than we can handle,and give us a way out of it,so in reality it should be easy to avoid sin.

But although we are only human so we will sin can be true,by the Spirit it is not true,but when we sin we are only human,and not acting as a spiritual being like we should.

So, all that to simply say that we all do sin, and always will, till we die? I think that was already settled.

 

[mpaper345]

I agree, I have asked at least one person to please stop quoting a person, or posting videos of him, But he says people thank him for posting those things, so he will not stop because of a few accusers..

I still say it would be easier to just say what we mean, Not post other people words.. It would stop most of these fights.

I understand what you are saying,for why post someone else's words,if you have the same belief yourself,for why can't you post them yourself,for if someone posts other people's words it would seem like they do not really grasp all what they say,to post it themselves,then why post it if you do not grasp it all,or it is laziness and you believe all they say,but do not want to write it out yourself.

But I find if you write a post yourself you come to a better understanding of the Bible,for you are thinking about how to write it,going through the scriptures,which if you do that sometimes you find that you will understand things that the words of someone else that you posted did not point out,or understand them self.

It is always better to post your own words for you will understand the Bible better for it is a type of study to do it that way,and you will not appear as if you do not have a thought of your own,but an attitude of yes master,whatever you say,but I kind of joke there.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

How do you think that we are credited with righteousness, even though we are not righteous? Because Christ is our righteousness. God sees us as righteous because of our faith in Christ. The true believer in Christ is wrestling to always overcome the sinful nature and are being transformed into the image of Christ as we go from faith to faith. When the dead are raised and the living are changed, then we will be free of the sinful nature.

What good is it to say we are credited with righteousness if there is no actual change in our behavior to be able to walk in righteousness? If Christ's righteousness is truly imputed then there will be a change in behavior and a change in spirit and a change in the nature of the man. Putting on Jesus Christ is not putting on a sinner, but putting on the righteousness of God.

 

[heavenly_bound]

It generally annoys me when people quote pastors instead of God. Ive had people try to force me into false doctrine with the ''even pastor so and so said so!'' and Im just thinking ''its not the word of a pastor that is a two edged sword...its Gods word.. I serve God..not man'' .
Only when people start learning to stop serving man and themselves they can see Christs face. Its hard in the society nowadays but it is the truth.

yes you are right in saying that, but at the same time Christ has instituted order in His Church by appointing men in the 5(4 actually) fold ministries, for the perfection of the church.

No Christian can grow by himself. even if you read the word by yourself, at one point you will need someone to teach it to you. The best thing to do therefore, is to asked God to show you the Shepard He pre-ordained to feed and equip you(Jer3!15)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

No, the only one here saying he is set free from sin is you.

And I testify also it is because the Lord has made me free as Jesus said. So I confess it is the Lords doing,(Praise the Lord!) and I also confess Jesus did not fail me in that which He said He could do. So my testimony agrees with the words of God that says the Son can make you free indeed!

 

[mpaper345]

What good is it to be set free from all laws if it does not set you free from sin and sinning? All that does is make a world of lawless sinners, for sin was in the world before the law. Set people free from sin and lawlessness, then you have a world of saints who are a law unto themselves, not a bunch of lawless sinners.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

What we have to determine since we follow God,and He is our Master,what is important to Him,when we confess Christ,and follow Christ,for whatever is important to Him that we should do,for if it is important to God it cannot be neglected,for you cannot be right with God unless you do what is important in His universe.

And we read what is important to God,and that is when someone errs from the truth,to convert them,why,to hide a multitude of sins,which means that is what is important to God,to cease the appearance of sins among His saints,for sins separate us from God,and God does not want us to be separated from Him.

So I agree with you,God wants us to cease the appearance of sins,and hide those sins,get rid of them,for that is the purpose of Christ,and the cross,to give us the power to cease from sin by the Spirit,so we can do what is important to God,stop sinning,for sins separate us from God.

They try to impute Jesus sinless lifestyle to themselves,without the responsibility that it is also on them to abstain from sin.

What Jesus did being a sinless man is become our Mediator between God and men,for only a sinless man can reconcile us to God.

The blood washes away our sins,if we do not want sin anymore,and we have a fresh start,no sins on our record.

We receive the Spirit who will cause us to abstain from sin as long as we do not want sin,and then the responsibility falls on us to keep making the decision to allow the Spirit to lead us,for every time a person engages in sin,they made the decision to not allow the Spirit to lead them,and if they do not repent of that sin,but hold unto it,then they are not right with God at that time,until they repent of it,and not want it,it is forgiven,and then they are right with God again.

We cannot impute what Christ did for us if we engage in sin,for when we engage in sin,we made the decision to not allow the Spirit to lead us,and Christ's righteousness is only imputed to us,if we allow the Spirit to lead us.

Which we cannot say it is a hard thing to be able to overcome the flesh,for we can have the Spirit,and God will not put on us more than we can bear,and will give us a way out of the temptation.

So people should not make excuses for the power is there,and the temptation lessened in the saints life compared to the world,so it is rather easy,but sometimes we might want a little sin now and then,but there is no excuse why it cannot be done,for the Spirit would not fail to those sincere about not wanting sin.

If we do sin it is not because we cannot overcome it,or avoid it,but we decided we want to enjoy it,but we could of avoided it easily by the Spirit.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

But, your whole premise goes right down the toilet because all of us have seen you sin right here on this forum, as you have seen us also do.

I see many false accusers of me, yes.

 

[blessedjohn80]

What good is it to say we are credited with righteousness if there is no actual change in our behavior to be able to walk in righteousness? If Christ's righteousness is truly imputed then there will be a change in behavior and a change in spirit and a change in the nature of the man. Putting on Jesus Christ is not putting on a sinner, but putting on the righteousness of God.

Titus 3:9 --- But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

And here is what you did:

False hyper grace teacher Joseph Prince says this....

But Jesus said this....John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Did Jesus fail as Joseph Prince says, or perhaps Joseph Prince does not truly know and believe in the power of God to actually set one free from sin and sinful thoughts?

Is this how you put on the righteousness of God?

 

[heavenly_bound]

Yep that looks just like the words of Joseph Prince I quoted in my OP---->>>>

So how is my OP slander? And even with allllll the context, his statement is still contrary to the words of Jesus Christ, which I also posted in my OP.....
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The son has set us free indeed, but we can choose to entangle ourselves again eg the Galatians!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

[/COLOR][/B]The son has set us free indeed, but we can choose to entangle ourselves again eg the Galatians!

That's why "wilful" sins after conversion proves you do have a choice to make whose will you will serve. Jesus Christ can empower you to be an overcomer of the world and of sin by the power of His Spirit, but you still have a choice to make who you will serve, either sin unto death, or righteousness unto eternal Life through Jesus Christ.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Is this how you put on the righteousness of God?

Warning people of false doctrine that leads people to destruction is somehow now evil? LOL

 

[heavenly_bound]

I know for a fact Jesus did not fail. But what is amazing to me is all the people who support and defend the words of this Joseph Prince in the OP over and above the words of Jesus Christ concerning truly being set free from sin. Very telling indeed.

This also confirms to me that the falling away from the faith is in full swing.

could it be bc they see something that you do not yet see? The problem is that you are so deep rooted in religion that you cannot see anything else! Grace is completely hid from the eyes of anyone who is still under the law (Moses's veil)! until you denounce the law, you will always be "amazed" by what Grace teaches; bc Grace it almost to good to be true, yet it is true.

 

[blessedjohn80]

Warning people of false doctrine that leads people to destruction is somehow now evil? LOL

Okay. Here's another for you to laugh at:

Proverbs 10:17 --- He who keeps instruction is in the way of life,
But he who refuses correction goes astray.