That is...almost unheard of! A man giving away his books. It actually COSTS him money to do that!
Did Jesus fail????
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That is...almost unheard of! A man giving away his books. It actually COSTS him money to do that!
I said I have seen him on t.v.. seen some of his many vids (many posted here constantly) and have read some of his may false doctrine quotes from his books which other good Bible believing Christians have already read, and exposed as contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and the words of God. I have also seen his teachings constantly being posted on this forum for over a year now, so I have a pretty good idea of the biggie errors he preaches anyway, but I'm sure there are many more as I know this man is not of God's Spirit.
And the only reason I researched some of his quotes from his books that expose his false doctrine, is because it was constantly being pushed here from that escape from reality web site from this so called "hyper grace" cult following of his. So I don't need to read all his books to find error, because his disciples are more than happy to copy paste it and speak it in these forums.
What I find annoying is that you keep trying to imply that I find scripture annoying, but I do not, neither have I said anything to lead one to believe that, that is your own attempt at a straw man prop. My issue is with JP's quote in the OP, no amount of scripture will agree or cover over that heresy.
Personally I love to preach the gospel of the grace of Christ because in it is the only power of God for salvation. NOT in the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset that perverts the true grace of Christ.
I love to post articles about the grace of Christ as it will help those that are seeking truth to grow in Christ and to come out of that debilitating religion.
I love to post articles about the grace of Christ as it will help those that are seeking truth to grow in Christ and to come out of that debilitating religion.
Here is a great article that speaks about how to recognize a mixed-grace gospel when it is being preached. As I have said many times in the past - I like to use this website because it has questions at the bottom where you can ask about the points in the article. I often learn more from those.
How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel
In churches every week, you will hear one of two messages. You will either hear a mixed-grace gospel or you will hear the hyper-grace gospel.
Do you know how to tell the difference?
A mixed-grace gospel combines the unmerited favor of God with the merited wage of human-effort. “You are saved by grace but you maintain your position through right-living,” is an example of a mixed-grace message.
“God gives you grace so that you can keep His commands,” is another. These sorts of messages contain an element of grace but ultimately push you to trust in yourself and your own efforts.
Any mixed-grace message can be recognized by the presence of carrots and sticks. Carrots are the blessings you get for obedience; sticks are the penalties you pay for disobedience.
The modern mixed-grace message offers the following carrots: If you confess, you’ll be forgiven; if you do right, you’ll be accepted; if you act holy, you’ll be holy.
And what happens if you don’t do these things? What are the sticks of the mixed-grace message? Fail to perform according to prevailing codes of conduct and you’ll lose your forgiveness, you’ll lose your fellowship, and, if worse comes to worse, you may lose your salvation.
None of this sounds like good news to me.
Yet tragically this is the sort of message that millions of people hear every week. They don’t hear about Jesus; they hear about carrots and sticks.
Bite into any mixed-grace message and you will taste a bitter fruit. You will feel the pressure to perform and smell the fear that comes with failure. You’ll make promises to God and then you’ll break them. You’ll resolve to try harder only to fail again and again. You’ll become burned out and bummed out.
Since a mixed-grace message puts the emphasis on you and what you have done, your identity will become defined by your productivity.
You will start to think of yourself as God’s servant instead of His beloved son or daughter. Worst of all, you will end up distracted from Jesus and fallen from grace.
Don’t swallow any poison that comes with a spoonful of grace. And don’t subscribe to any message that leads you to trust in yourself and your works instead of Jesus and His.
To paraphrase Watchman Nee, “You can try or you can trust and the difference is heaven and hell.”
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. (Romans 11:6)
You may have heard that God gives us grace in order to do good works, but this is misleading. God does not give you grace so that you can work. He gives you grace because He loves you. Period.Those who receive from the abundance of His grace do indeed work and often they work harder than anyone else, but that’s neither here nor there.
The issue is not what you’ll do for God but what you’ll let Him do for you. Will you trust Him a little bit or will you trust Him the whole way? Does His grace merely get you in the front door or does it keep you safe to the very end?
As Jesus said, the only work that counts is the “work” of believing in the One He has sent (John 6:29). This is the chief takeaway of the hyper-grace gospel.
https://escapetoreality.org/2014/05/08/how-to-recognize-a-mixed-grace-gospel/
How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel
In churches every week, you will hear one of two messages. You will either hear a mixed-grace gospel or you will hear the hyper-grace gospel.
Do you know how to tell the difference?
A mixed-grace gospel combines the unmerited favor of God with the merited wage of human-effort. “You are saved by grace but you maintain your position through right-living,” is an example of a mixed-grace message.
“God gives you grace so that you can keep His commands,” is another. These sorts of messages contain an element of grace but ultimately push you to trust in yourself and your own efforts.
Any mixed-grace message can be recognized by the presence of carrots and sticks. Carrots are the blessings you get for obedience; sticks are the penalties you pay for disobedience.
The modern mixed-grace message offers the following carrots: If you confess, you’ll be forgiven; if you do right, you’ll be accepted; if you act holy, you’ll be holy.
And what happens if you don’t do these things? What are the sticks of the mixed-grace message? Fail to perform according to prevailing codes of conduct and you’ll lose your forgiveness, you’ll lose your fellowship, and, if worse comes to worse, you may lose your salvation.
None of this sounds like good news to me.
Yet tragically this is the sort of message that millions of people hear every week. They don’t hear about Jesus; they hear about carrots and sticks.
Bite into any mixed-grace message and you will taste a bitter fruit. You will feel the pressure to perform and smell the fear that comes with failure. You’ll make promises to God and then you’ll break them. You’ll resolve to try harder only to fail again and again. You’ll become burned out and bummed out.
Since a mixed-grace message puts the emphasis on you and what you have done, your identity will become defined by your productivity.
You will start to think of yourself as God’s servant instead of His beloved son or daughter. Worst of all, you will end up distracted from Jesus and fallen from grace.
Don’t swallow any poison that comes with a spoonful of grace. And don’t subscribe to any message that leads you to trust in yourself and your works instead of Jesus and His.
To paraphrase Watchman Nee, “You can try or you can trust and the difference is heaven and hell.”
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. (Romans 11:6)
You may have heard that God gives us grace in order to do good works, but this is misleading. God does not give you grace so that you can work. He gives you grace because He loves you. Period.Those who receive from the abundance of His grace do indeed work and often they work harder than anyone else, but that’s neither here nor there.
The issue is not what you’ll do for God but what you’ll let Him do for you. Will you trust Him a little bit or will you trust Him the whole way? Does His grace merely get you in the front door or does it keep you safe to the very end?
As Jesus said, the only work that counts is the “work” of believing in the One He has sent (John 6:29). This is the chief takeaway of the hyper-grace gospel.
https://escapetoreality.org/2014/05/08/how-to-recognize-a-mixed-grace-gospel/
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Then instead of taking offense at an offhand remark, why did you not discuss the Scripture quoted? What I find absolutely amazing is that when we do put on the Lord Jesus Christ as instructed in Rom 13:14, all the things which we think are so important to us just melt away. There truly is complete and utter freedom afforded to us as we take His yoke upon us and walk with Him.InSpiritInTruth said:
I told you earlier if you wanted to discuss Romans then start your own thread on the topic. I do not disagree with the verses you posted in Romans, nor with any of God's words, but it has nothing to do with making this statement below acceptable. This is what the OP is about, do you think the book of Romans or any other words of God agrees with this statement below that Jesus somehow failed?
False hyper grace teacher Joseph Prince says this....
Here is the "context" of what was said......people "twist" things to make it "appear" to be saying else. We need to always look before a quote and after a quote to see "what was really being said in context".
You continue to ignore the context within which the statement sits.InSpiritInTruth said:
Additionally, you may not be familiar with the use of figures of speech in writing.
Figures of speech are legitimate writing techniques used to emphasize certain points. You have taken as literal what the author has figuratively written. The author used an extravagant statement to create a strong emotional response.
As the link points out, "If you do not recognize them as figures of speech and think that they are literal, you will find it difficult to understand the language."
The author was successful in his use of the figure of speech. His figure of speech created a strong emotional response from you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
The problem is, the point the author was trying to make, Was completely missed by ISIT,
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
when your main purpose in life is just out to attack something you hate, That seems to be a habit, You look for key words (not worrying about Context) then when you see it, Your eyes get big, the smile on your face grows, And you think, HA! I GOT HIM,, HERETIC ALERT.
then when people investigate, they see you totally missed the point, because you missed context. Because you were not trying to learn what they guy believed, but were to busy trying to attack the person..
from what I have witnessed, Every post in CC opened to attack JP. no matter who opened it, has made this same mistake.
I said I have seen him on t.v.. seen some of his many vids (many posted here constantly) and have read some of his may false doctrine quotes from his books which other good Bible believing Christians have already read, and exposed as contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and the words of God. I have also seen his teachings constantly being posted on this forum for over a year now, so I have a pretty good idea of the biggie errors he preaches anyway, but I'm sure there are many more as I know this man is not of God's Spirit.
And the only reason I researched some of his quotes from his books that expose his false doctrine, is because it was constantly being pushed here from that escape from reality web site from this so called "hyper grace" cult following of his. So I don't need to read all his books to find error, because his disciples are more than happy to copy paste it and speak it in these forums.
So, basically, "No," you have never read anything he has written except select "git him" verses taken out of context to support a hater's prejudice. Yeah, that's about what I figured. It shows in your writing.
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This is so true.
And it is "ok" to agree to disagree on some areas too. Willie and I have talked a few times about things that Joseph Prince believes that we completely disagree with. Concerning the gospel of the grace of Christ for salvation and living - he is right on and that part we agree with him in.
I have not seen any teacher bring out the beauty of Christ more in his talks then Prince does. Especially in the Old Testament and in the Hebrews words and in the law and ceremonies in the Old Covenant.
But Willie and I don't start threads of hate and malice against him and in effect slandering him by taking what he says out of context to "rail" on him. That is such ungodly behavior and it is masked with supposedly looking for heresy.
When I see what threads some people make and it is all to do with malice, slander, condemnation, evil, demonic, etc. there is something drastically wrong.
I contrast that with people that talk about the love and grace that our Lord has for us and they lift up Christ Himself and what He has done for us - I contrast that with threads of malice filled slander - the difference and "spirit" being portrayed are night and day apart.
There are people that believe God makes us sick to teach us things - there are some that think the complete opposite of that.
There are people that believe you lose your salvation - there are those that believe we are safe in Christ.
There are people that believe in praying in tongues to their Father is of the devil - there are those that think it is a blessing to speak in tongues to our Father.
These 3 groups of people above will be at odds with each other. In Joseph Prince's case - he believes on the positive side of all 3 things above and so he is going to be a target of hate and malice towards him because he has the greatest exposure.
Attack and malign the messenger and the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ is being attacked. The enemy hates the message of the true gospel because in "it" is the only power for salvation.
Seems to me the author was successful in brainwashing a lot of his followers, or else why would so many defend the words of a heretic and believe them over the words of Jesus Christ, as I've shown in my OP. The reason this heretic spoke those words is because he is speaking from his present condition, and that is in the condition of one who is a servant of sin. This is also why so many of his followers here are also defending his evil words because they agree with this same condition of being in bondage to sin, so thus blaming Jesus as a failure seems to be what tickles their ears. This type of thinking is just a form of self justification, which makes them feel better about their own ongoing sinful behavior. So instead of seeing themselves as cursed children unable to cease from sin, they deem Jesus' sacrifice a failure in their own lives for not being able to truly set them free from sin and lustful thoughts and evil desires.
But unlike JP and his followers, I know Jesus did not fail in what He said He would do.
The first Adam is of the earth, and speaks of earthly things, what he sees and hears, and what he knows to be true naturally as a servant of sin.
Jude 1:10
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jude 1:10
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Because of your unwillingness to consider the whole context within which the statement sits, you refuse to consider the final statement which is:
"Now, will the revelation of what Jesus has done for you cause you to go out and sin? Of course not! In fact, knowing that He has borne your punishment will cause you to fall in love with Him. It will give you the strength to break free from sin!"
You appear to be of the same mindset as those Paul wrote about in Romans 3:8 (those who slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say, let us do evil, that good may come).
Did Paul teach that good comes when evil is done? Nope.
"Now, will the revelation of what Jesus has done for you cause you to go out and sin? Of course not! In fact, knowing that He has borne your punishment will cause you to fall in love with Him. It will give you the strength to break free from sin!"
You appear to be of the same mindset as those Paul wrote about in Romans 3:8 (those who slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say, let us do evil, that good may come).
Did Paul teach that good comes when evil is done? Nope.