Did Jesus fail????

[Yahshua]

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


1 Thessalonians 5:21 - Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness


These are passages of scripture that stand on their own no matter the context and are what every single follower of God is instructed to do, by John and by Paul. Each and every one of us is SUPPOSED to take ANY individual's doctrine and weight it against *scripture* because scripture is the balance by which all truth is weighed.

But to suggest that one is attacking another simply because they're questioning one's doctrine in light of the scriptures is itself against these very instructions handed down to us. It's the content; the doctrine that is weighed. And if it's found wanting it has to go, and the one spreading the doctrine should be rebuked and corrected (Paul's words, not mine). They must be judged as being in error. And by the way, a judgment isn't a condemnation.

I've watch JP before but haven't read his book. My mother asked me to watch an episode of one of his sermon and it was fine to me. There weren't any violations of scripture. However, if he said in his book that 'if Christ died on the cross to free us from committing sinful actions or harboring sinful thoughts then he failed'...then aside from the person Joseph Prince (as I'm sure he's a good guy), he's doctrine is incorrect.

Because whether one argues that the *FREEDOM* from sinful actions and harboring sinful thoughts occurs instantly or progressively (through a sanctification) or eventually (upon receiving the new body), that is EXACTLY why Christ went to the cross. To save us from the *bondage* of sin.


The opposite of bondage is freedom.


Now that's not slander, as I'm not talking bad about Joseph Prince personally. There's no malice, as I have no feelings for him one way or another. But if what's quoted from his book is his doctrine, then weighed against scripture: the prophets, the words of Christ, and the apostles, he's wrong.


We can all reason together using the following scriptures:


Jesus answered them, TRULY TRULY I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the slave of sin. (John 8:34)



"To put an end to sin" (Daniel 9:24). A prophecy of what Christ would do when he came the first time.


"Behold the lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29)


"Sin is the transgression of the law [of God]" (1 John 3:4). Sin is an action, while GUILT is the "stain of sin".


"Then Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are your accusers? Has no one condemned you?' 11 'No one, Lord.' she answered. Neither do I condemn you [HE JUST FORGAVE HER OF HER PAST SINS, THEN] Jesus declared. Now go and sin no more ." (John 8:11).

If it's true that any effort to obey God's law denies Christ's act of salvation why would he set her up by telling her to "sin no more"...or set up the guy in John 5:14?


"But he was wounded for our transgressions [SINS], he was bruised for our iniquities [SINS]: the chastisement of [PUNISHMENT for] our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5)


11 So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not **let** sin control your **mortal body** so that you obey its desires. (Romans 6:12).

Let = allow = an effort/fight of resistance.


Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Hebrews 10:22)

 

[PeterJens]

There is something drastically wrong with this kind of "spirit" that drives this malice and slander for someone in the body of Christ.

If this spirit is upholding righteousness and purity, opposing heresy, then Amen
and Praise the Lord, for such a Spirit is the Holy Spirit at work in the heart of a believer.

Jesus says "Follow me" "Obey my commandments" "My yoke is easy and my burden is light"

Now was Jesus lying, or possibly you do not properly know Him, and are not walking in the
Spirit which is why you continually fail.

I always find it interesting how failures to follow Christ take the superior road against His
faithful followers. Possibly they should show some more faith and humble themselves in
repentance over their sin which seems to invade their lives so closely.

It is exactly what the pharisees did, they knew they were hypocrites putting on a show,
and believed Jesus was just like them, so were prepared to kill Him rather than show up
their failure.

Either you are with righteousness and purity or you are against it, there is no neutral
ground.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But Romans 4:6-8 is about having your past sins forgiven and having Christ's righteousness imputed, not about Jesus failing to set you free from sinful actions. What does imputed righteousness look like in a born again Christian? If Christ's righteousness is truly imputed then you will be like Christ, and you will be set free from sin and also committing sinful actions and harboring sinful thoughts.

You know, InSpiritInTruth, I have been walking with the Lord for a while and I stumble at times. And God is so good to me. Maybe you never stumbled and good for you if you haven't. But if you ever do stumble, I know you can go to Father with open heart and find mercy and grace to help in time of need. And every time we are forgiven for falling short we have righteousness imputed unto us [that includes you, ISIT, because I know you are not perfect (yet )].


It is in putting on the Lord Jesus Christ that we are able to overcome the lusts of our flesh (Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof). It is His strength we are infused with in overcoming the weakness of our flesh. Again, maybe you have no weakness in your flesh, but the rest of us mere mortals do. And we know our Advocate loves us just as much as He loves you, even though (according to you) you have no weakness of flesh.

JP speaks of what he knows naturally, which is from the perspective of a carnally minded man who is still in bondage to sin and still suffers from sinful thoughts and desires. His words about Jesus being unable to set you free from future sins and lustful thoughts are totally false.

Not everyone has reached the spiritual perfection which you claim to have attained.

JP's words were written for the purpose of drawing attention to his statement. It appears to have worked as you have been drawn to them (to the exclusion of all else written).

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Does the OP ever sin?....pretty straight forward stuff.....and we all know that he does. Then in his "application" of the scripture - who ever commits sin is of the devil - he is of the devil himself. See how this religion falls apart?

The truth is his "application" of the scripture is way off the truth of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

It is useless as dozens of times people have asked the same question and it is ignored.

You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.

 

[Stephen63]

I have to laugh at this comment.
Firstly I see no malice here or slander, only someones opinion regarding heresy.
Secondly you cannot call people anti-christ and then say you are in the body of Christ
and they are so evil. It is you who has drawn the line, disowned an individual, painted
yourself as a true follower and then saying this sinner, how dare they suggest you are
sinning.

Your language continually condemns simple faithful believers, which is not the work of
Jesus. I would question how you know Jesus to behave like this and pick the fights
you pick, and then say, do not comment and leave these people alone, but you continually
do the opposite. That is hypocracy. Why do you not take your own advice?

AMEN TO THAT!!

 

[Gr8grace]

I think this summarises the problem of slander. Unless you actually say what you are
talking about it is just slander and posturing. And I am not slandering you by saying this
I am saying 100% what you are doing with the above sentence.

Now if you cannot see what the difference between truth and slander you show this by your
slandering someone by not producing a real example.

I had an honest question. And NEVER got an answer. Then you said that you did answer. I couldn't find it and asked you to show...............Oh what is the point? Most of us see it.

Gr8grace

Senior Member

Join DateSeptember 13th, 2016Age43Posts358Rep Power10

[h=2]

Re: Romans 8:1-2, is conditional[/h]

Originally Posted by Gr8grace
Peter~~miknik5 - This is your first post on this thread directly aimed at me.

Still do not understand it, but this is a provocation.
Funny how people do not remember their own behaviour lol

Originally Posted by miknik5
Flesh, flesh, flesh...I am not interested.
It still will not change the TRUTH.



What was her point?



Then my post 264~~

Gr8grace

Senior Member

Join DateSeptember 13th, 2016Age43Posts207Rep Power6

Re: Romans 8:1-2, is conditional

Originally Posted by PeterJens
Still do not understand it



You really don't understand her exchange with you? Everybody else here does.

Why can't you see it? Even if she was wrong?

​

 

[PeterJens]

I had an honest question. And NEVER got an answer. Then you said that you did answer. I couldn't find it and asked you to show...............Oh what is the point? Most of us see it.

Forgive me Gr8grace - please can you tell me which point you are referring to.

You are commenting on me wondering how someone could call me up on expressing faith,
and I wondered why miknik5 was so defensive, I suggested she was shy, but did not need to be.
The point I was making to her and you, is Jesus calls us to walk by expressing our hearts
and the joy He has put there, Hallelujah. Do you not feel it or know it? Glory to His glorious name.

So brother, do you not know the glorious Joy God has given us in Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Unto us is given the saviour of the World, that we might walk in the Kingdom of His Father.

So which answer are you after my friend and what is your point?
I am not running away, but you think you have found a jewel of slander that fells me,
please tell me, and the audience, my friend, what is this great wonder?

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

Now proving a point, is actually proving a point, not raising another slander as if
this is a point, when the very text shows there is no content, or understanding.

That is just another slander, or attempt at it, which is pointless, but at least it
defines the intent of the contributor.

 

[gb9]

dear reader,

slander is NOT disagreeing with someone. slander is not questioning someone's personal theology. slander is a buzzword that people who think they have all the answers throw out there when they get disagreed with.

 

[Willie-T]

Now THAT we can agree on! Why invent when the truth is splashed all over the internet? Why show stupid videos that don't address the issue when they have the book?

Willie, if this book had been posted in its context months ago, many of these threads would have never been written.

One of the things I'm gonna start asking for is the actual words & context from Destined to Reign, because several members in this forum have the book, but they won't post it..... AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY.

It's really quite simple. People like ISIT thrive on picking a few sentences here and there to try and create some meaning other than what is shown in the book. And no matter what small portions anyone posted (and the entire book cannot be posted... it's more than 300 pages long) they would still just go back to the articles created by other haters, and swear THOSE abbreviated statements they pulled out of context were the full and honest intent of Prince's words.

The haters don't want to look for truth. They just want to find something else to hate.

 

[Willie-T]

Now THAT we can agree on! Why invent when the truth is splashed all over the internet? Why show stupid videos that don't address the issue when they have the book?

Willie, if this book had been posted in its context months ago, many of these threads would have never been written.

One of the things I'm gonna start asking for is the actual words & context from Destined to Reign, because several members in this forum have the book, but they won't post it..... AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY.

Are you seriously going to do that? You mean that you are no longer going to accept a couple of sentences you find written in someone's " exposé " as enough for you to go on to condemn an author? I honestly hope you mean that.

You do realize, don't you, that it is NOT the lack of having the whole book in front of us that is the problem? It is the willingness to jump on the bandwagon, and join the attack....... all the while, knowing we don't have the full and honest truth in front of us. It's really us just giving in to our desire to go on the attack........... Otherwise, we would begin any reply with an objection and a request that the accuser post the full content and context.

 

[Stephen63]

Are you seriously going to do that? You mean that you are no longer going to accept a couple of sentences you find written in someone's " exposé " as enough for you to go on to condemn an author? I honestly hope you mean that.

You do realize, don't you, that it is NOT the lack of having the whole book in front of us that is the problem? It is the willingness to jump on the bandwagon, and join the attack....... all the while, knowing we don't have the full and honest truth in front of us. It's really us just giving in to our desire to go on the attack........... Otherwise, we would begin any reply with an objection and a request that the accuser post the full content and context.

It's sad, really, that some of the junkiest sites on the internet have real facts. The problem is the owner of the site has a grudge against the topic or authors thereof & literally make up or twist literature to match their gripes. Jesus is the one who said "the truth shall make you free". My position is "why add to it when Jesus said the truth is enough"?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Maybe you never stumbled and good for you if you haven't. .........[that includes you, ISIT, because I know you are not perfect (yet )].

Again, maybe you have no weakness in your flesh, but the rest of us mere mortals do.

Not everyone has reached the spiritual perfection which you claim to have attained.

Do you see the attitude in these posts? Who are you people defending, and who are you really fighting against? I hold fast to the words of God, but you guys defend the words and doctrines of carnally minded men. And again, we see the same old personal attacks and false accusations over and over again, saying that I claim this, or that I said that. Where did I claim all these things that mine accusers constantly say I have said? Where is the proof of all these false accusations? I ask for proof from all of them, but none is ever given. Is this not slander and malice on their part? So I will give you the same courtesy I have given all my other false accusers, please show us all where I have said I have reached "spiritual perfection" as you just said in the above.

I said this earlier in the thread, and I'll post it again because it has been the case whenever I hold fast to the words of God that expose the false sayings and false doctrines of men. Attacking the messenger is their common defense....

What I find very telling, often when I speak out against sin and for Jesus Christ being able to actually set a believer free from sin, somehow the enemies of God's Word try to attack me personally and try to make me a sinner and a liar like them, as if this will somehow prove the words of God wrong. This shows what spirit these reprobates are truly of, they want a god made in their own image. I guess Joseph Prince fits the bill for them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

dear reader,

slander is NOT disagreeing with someone. slander is not questioning someone's personal theology. slander is a buzzword that people who think they have all the answers throw out there when they get disagreed with.

Slander.

Slander is saying someone said something they never said.

Slander is twisting someones words, or taking them out of context. to make it appear they said something they never said.

Slander is this op and the many like it that keeps popping up. It is time people stop responding to the slanderous people who keep claiming to be sinless (even though they refuse to answer if they really are) while breaking the commandment, though shalt not bare false witness. Which has been proven over and over in this thread and the rest

 

[Stephen63]

Slander.

Slander is saying someone said something they never said.

Slander is twisting someones words, or taking them out of context. to make it appear they said something they never said.

You mean, like calling everybody that doesn't agree with you a legalist? Or, twisting my words, & say I still live by the law? How about saying I don't believe in grace?

Do me a favor, will you? practice what you preach.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You mean, like calling everybody that doesn't agree with you a legalist? Or, twisting my words, & say I still live by the law? How about saying I don't believe in grace?

Do me a favor, will you? practice what you preach.

Do you believe one can lose salvation?

If one can lose salvation, that means they must live up to some standard (whatever standard it is you claim one must live up to ) to remain saved (IE, You teach one is saved by grace, but has to live up to some standard to earn it) or as paul said, Are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit are you now being perfected in the flesh..

Thus,unless you have changed you mind since I last asked you, you are a legalist.

There I proved my point.

(as you said in another thread where I see people stopped responding to your nonsense., and I hope they continue to stop responding)

"that was too easy"

now. what did the OP do to slander.

He made a statment that JP said something, That somethign was proven to be in error. Buy JPs words himself, and by his writing when taken in context.

Yet the op keeps trying to play his slanderous ways.

we see who is slandering. It is easy..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You mean, like calling everybody that doesn't agree with you a legalist? Or, twisting my words, & say I still live by the law? How about saying I don't believe in grace?

Do me a favor, will you? practice what you preach.

Oh, and by the way, There are many many people who do not agree with me, that I do not call legalist. So your strawman is destroyed.

what is a legalist.
1. One who claims one has to work to earn salvation
2. One who claims one has to work to KEEP salvation
3. One who claims we are saved by faith, But salvation can be lost (because we still have to earn salvation, even if they deny this is true)

 

[Willie-T]

BTW............ I got absolutely free copies of Destined to Reign, Unmerited Favor, and The Power of Right Believing, online from Joseph Prince's own site. You can too......... IF you actually do care about accurately, fully, and honestly quoting what he says. (What a golden opportunity to REALLY slam him!)

 

[Chester]

Oh, and by the way, There are many many people who do not agree with me, that I do not call legalist. So your strawman is destroyed.

what is a legalist.
1. One who claims one has to work to earn salvation
2. One who claims one has to work to KEEP salvation
3. One who claims we are saved by faith, But salvation can be lost (because we still have to earn salvation, even if they deny this is true)

I believe that initial salvation (justification, or the new birth) is entirely by grace through faith, and is not of works.
I believe that ongoing salvation (sanctification, or Christian growth) is entirely by grace through faith, and is not of works.
I believe I did not gain initial salvation by earning it, and I do not keep salvation by earning it.

I also believe that I can lose my salvation.

So, by your definition I am a legalist. And I believe that I "still have to earn salvation".

Am I understanding your post correctly?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BTW............ I got absolutely free copies of Destined to Reign, Unmerited Favor, and The Power of Right Believing, online from Joseph Prince's own site. You can too......... IF you actually do care about accurately, fully, and honestly quoting what he says. (What a golden opportunity to REALLY slam him!)

that takes to much work, why do that, when you can go to lets bash JP, lets destroy JP, lets defeat JP internet sites, where someone already did that for you..