Grrr! I could almost be in such agreement with some of you until you use phrases like, let go of sin-consciousness or trust in His finished work. I have some sort of mental block where I cannot understand these phrases as you do and they even appear to be crazy to me. I have spent a long time trying to understand them as you do but I just can't. And the result is that I skip over the posts of those who use them because it's obvious that if I've put in so much time diligently applying myself while reading and still can't understand, then I'm just not going to. As soon as I see the phrases, I just stop reading. And if the phrases are repeated by one person every single time they post, I stop reading their posts altogether. And that is awful to me but I can't just keep reading the same exact phrase, always repeated the same exact way (and which I cannot comprehend) and not get so frustrated that I have to stop trying to understand for the sake of my sanity. Sorry. You don't have to reply - in fact, how could you? I just can't take the repeated phrases any more. You could repeat them 5,000 more times and I do not think I would be any closer to understanding them. I love you guys but I can not understand these phrases and you can't seem to use different words to explain and I start getting a spooky feeling about that.
Two useless/inappropriate/wrong accusations
- Thread starter Chester
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Grrr! I could almost be in such agreement with some of you until you use phrases like, let go of sin-consciousness or trust in His finished work. I have some sort of mental block where I cannot understand these phrases as you do and they even appear to be crazy to me. I have spent a long time trying to understand them as you do but I just can't. And the result is that I skip over the posts of those who use them because it's obvious that if I've put in so much time diligently applying myself while reading and still can't understand, then I'm just not going to. As soon as I see the phrases, I just stop reading. And if the phrases are repeated by one person every single time they post, I stop reading their posts altogether. And that is awful to me but I can't just keep reading the same exact phrase, always repeated the same exact way (and which I cannot comprehend) and not get so frustrated that I have to stop trying to understand for the sake of my sanity. Sorry. You don't have to reply - in fact, how could you? I just can't take the repeated phrases any more. You could repeat them 5,000 more times and I do not think I would be any closer to understanding them. I love you guys but I can not understand these phrases and you can't seem to use different words to explain and I start getting a spooky feeling about that.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. You added to the word. Naughty Naughty
2. Just take him literally. Why try to add anything.
If we are faithless (we lack faith) he is faithful He can not deny himself (he promised eternal life to all who hear the word of truth, and call out to him to be saved, He will keep his word. even when we lose faith. because to take his gift back would be to deny his own word.
I used to think exactly as you do, that "sin conscousness" was just a cute phrase that didn't really mean much.
But it actually DOES make perfect sense to me now.
The enemy wants us to focus on our failures and sins because he knows that a Christian that does that will not only lose their joy but also be ineffetive in bringing others to Christ.
Contrary, if we keep our minds off of ourselves, and focus on Jesus, and His finished work, (dying for our sins) then the immense gratitude and love we have for Him makes us ready to be more fully used for His incredible purposes.
P.S. Love to you also in Jesus sweet Name.
The sinner prayed
But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
Luke 18:13
Jesus praised this sin-conscious man and condemned the man who was unaware of his sin
but only his good deeds and righteousness.
It is odd how some condemn the self righteous man, and praise the sinner who humbled themselves,
while these same people are encouraging others to do the opposite, to praise their imputed righteousness
and ignore the sin they are actually commiting.
I call this blindness and hypocracy. The excuse is before the cross and after the cross, except
spiritual realities never change, failure is still failure, and success is still success.
H
heavenly_bound
Guest
well said! if one didn't contribute to salvation, then he cannot maintain it either.
God never intended for man to contribute to salvation in any way, not even by our faith. our faith is as a result of the Faith of Christ imputed through the hearing of the gospel by the Holy Spirit. one can see that man has been completely set apart as far as salvation is concern! our Precious Lord is the EXCLUSIVE Savior and keeper of mankind's salvation!
Anything short of this is under estimating the person and work of our lord; thus a very subtle form of heresy.
If you think i am exaggerating, then study the heresies dealt with at Nicaea.
There is a deception in this ethic, that there is nothing of worth within the believer.
It is true focusing only on failure, is doing the enemies work, but God sees the good, the positive,
the love, the faith, the empathy, the hope, the need.
If you do not see the balance in ones life, the things of value, you will never see them in others.
You see what you look for. Seeing the strengths in others is a gift of God.
Test yourselves. List 10 good things about each person you know.
If you cannot do this, you know you have a jaded view on life, yourself and others, and the Lord
has much still to do for you. Love is about seeing it all, good and bad, and knowing the path to
life and reality. Jesus sees it all, else we would have no hope, and He still loves us.
If you understand a marriage, you would know how much this is rubbish.
We are the bride of Christ. Christ has given us the privilege to give and receive love
from Him.
Now I understand peoples insecurity, but like a child growing up to learn they have to
make life decisions themselves, it takes many many years to get to maturity.
All of life screams, we have to own our own lives, and our own walk. And Jesus talks
about a yoke, because he is setting us to walk like Him, like God walks.
Do you not understand the Kingdom to which you claim to belong?
He quite sufficiently showed by the red color and by the parentheses that he was giving his interpretation or explanation there. He's not adding to the word by doing that, in my opinion.
In fact, I would say he was very diligent there to make everyone aware of the fact that's what he was doing without actually typing the words: in red is how I personally see it.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
my point was the fact that in order to come up wiht his interpretation. he would have to add to the word of God.
Takingn the words literally, you could never come up with his interpretation.
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.
Rom 12:3
He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
1 Tim 3:7
So then, welcome him in the Lord with great joy, and honor people like him
Phil 2:29
Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the Lord’s people.
Phil 1:7
Scripture says what you are saying is not true.
I appreciate you trying to explain with other words! When someone sees some sort of resistance or complete "duh" as pertains to a phrase, the normal thing (in my mind) is to try to express ones thought differently if they would like another to understand them. When this doesn't seem possible, I wonder if even the person SAYING the phrase understands it for themselves.
I'll give an example. Saint John used to say "a dark night." Others have said, "all my light is gone" or "I really need a word" or "I can't feel God" or "He's gone silent." I have always just said, "He's put me on a fast." But if someone seemed to not understand what I was saying, I would not hesitate to use the words of these other men if it would help communication and understanding of what I was trying to convey.
You have actually helped me. After a year of trying to understand, I think you have brought me closer. No joke. Your second paragraph did it. I would explain this in this manner: I used to try very hard to be good and stop murdering in spirit, in heart. I applied every ounce of everything in me to be good because I wanted very badly to be good and I did understand that what defiles me is what comes from INSIDE me. But I always failed. And when I finally gave up and said: I give up, if I am to be good and am to ever stop murdering or am to grow in any virtue at all, YOU will have to do it because I can't, I always fail eventually because I have to be around other people. And after I gave up (cease all striving and know that I am God), I began to have great victories over my enemies.
So, thank you! I see what you are saying by the phrase now. I never stopped being conscious or aware of when I sinned, whether by murder or by arrogance or by mistrust, etc. So it seemed that I was being told to ignore my sin when the phrase kept being repeated to get rid of "sin consciousness."
The sinner prayed
But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
Luke 18:13
Jesus praised this sin-conscious man and condemned the man who was unaware of his sin
but only his good deeds and righteousness.
It is odd how some condemn the self righteous man, and praise the sinner who humbled themselves,
while these same people are encouraging others to do the opposite, to praise their imputed righteousness
and ignore the sin they are actually commiting.
I call this blindness and hypocracy. The excuse is before the cross and after the cross, except
spiritual realities never change, failure is still failure, and success is still success.
Amen....unfortunately the humanistic mindset does not see what happened to the believer in Christ "after" they recognized their need of a Savior.
Exactly what did happen to the believer when they became a new creation in Christ? These are the questions that need to be answered. Religion wants to keep us back to what we were like before coming to Christ and refuses to allow us to walk as sons/daughters joined in one spirit with the Lord.
Religion can only see the humanistic thinking and thus all spiritual realities in Christ are a mystery to them and thus everyone is called being blind and full of hypocrisy when they share the mysteries of being one with Christ.
Having a new heart is a mystery to them, being a new creation in Christ is a mystery to them. Depending on the life of Christ in us for all things in this life is a mystery to the religious humanistic mindset. And of course all those that talk about Christ's work in light of what Christ ahs already accomplished are heretics...lol
We need to come out of that type of mindset so that we can walk free in the Lord and then His life can flow in and through us to hurt and dying world.
Imagine a liar who says, do not look at yourselves, just imagine another world, and in this world
you are perfect and there are no problems.
Now if you live in this imaginary world you are a true believer, but if you see yourself and others
as they really are you are living in evil and are actually evil.
Now this is the world of the cults, and the world of total delusion.
So just measure someones theology against this, because Jesus is talking about getting your
hands dirty, purifying your heart, your thought life, your relationships through the cross, and
measuring for real where you are.
This is what it means to have righteousness that is greater than the pharisees and sadduces.
If you have read the gospels and not seen this, you have yet to meet Jesus Christ.
you are perfect and there are no problems.
Now if you live in this imaginary world you are a true believer, but if you see yourself and others
as they really are you are living in evil and are actually evil.
Now this is the world of the cults, and the world of total delusion.
So just measure someones theology against this, because Jesus is talking about getting your
hands dirty, purifying your heart, your thought life, your relationships through the cross, and
measuring for real where you are.
This is what it means to have righteousness that is greater than the pharisees and sadduces.
If you have read the gospels and not seen this, you have yet to meet Jesus Christ.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am sorry, But non of those verses refut what GB said.. How you think it does is mind boggling. Because non of them say to puff yourself up and think of yourself. In fact the first vs you posted agrees 100 % with GB (do not think highly of yourself)
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Here is the issue
The pharisee looked at himself and thought he was Gods chosen, and an obedient person. He did not see himself as he was He saw his perverted version of what he THOUGHT HE WAS.
The tax collector looked at himself and saw himself as he was, a sinner. Who demanded Gods grace.
The tax collector when home saved.. Not the pharisee.
If you are elf focused and do not see yourself as a sinner in need of Gods grace, you are not being honest..
Plus God tells us not to focus on self (flesh) but the spirit.
H
heavenly_bound
Guest
Oh yes, there is nothing of worth within the believer; Because the believer is death! The one who now lives in the believer's stead is Christ himself; Christ has become the believer's life; Christ has replaced the believer! Christ in flesh and bone in the believer's body; Christ in another form!
Therefore the only good thing in the believer, is that which is in Christ Himself! Its all about Christ!!
That's why Paul says the believer should acknowledge every good thing in him, which is in Christ Jesus! Philemon 1:6
Meaningless slander
Those who jump from one idea to another with no real connection, explain this jump
by saying only the "special" believers understand this mystery.
This is group assertion of a belief when in reality it is just playing along with the group
you identify with. Jesus's realities apply in the world as much as for the believer, it is
just the blind do not see it, they explain sin and its causes by any random trigger.
I remember when I first came to faith I could see how Jesus laid the emotional foundations
of reality, and how it told me what I needed to do. Now it is embedded in my soul I do not
see the other way. Love is the key, it is both God himself and the nature of our hearts.
But those who have the words but not the reality would want to distract you with any other
framework, and lie and slander their opposition, and claim they are evil, anti-Christs.
But Christ is love expressed through the cross, there is no other way by which we can be
saved.
Now if anyone ever argues with this, they do not know Christ. It is like night and day.
But many will come claiming here is the Christ...
Those who jump from one idea to another with no real connection, explain this jump
by saying only the "special" believers understand this mystery.
This is group assertion of a belief when in reality it is just playing along with the group
you identify with. Jesus's realities apply in the world as much as for the believer, it is
just the blind do not see it, they explain sin and its causes by any random trigger.
I remember when I first came to faith I could see how Jesus laid the emotional foundations
of reality, and how it told me what I needed to do. Now it is embedded in my soul I do not
see the other way. Love is the key, it is both God himself and the nature of our hearts.
But those who have the words but not the reality would want to distract you with any other
framework, and lie and slander their opposition, and claim they are evil, anti-Christs.
But Christ is love expressed through the cross, there is no other way by which we can be
saved.
Now if anyone ever argues with this, they do not know Christ. It is like night and day.
But many will come claiming here is the Christ...
If this was true then no one would ever be saved, God would just make a new creation without man.
For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
Matt 9:13
God came to purchase a bride, a people of God.
A shepherd values each lost sheep to be worthy of saving.
And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Matt 10:30-31