Let's stick with the facts shall we. The KJV uses:
less syllables per word
less letters per word
less words per sentence
smaller percentage of long words
greater percentage of short words than the NKJV, NIV, NASB and NRSV
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Let's stick with the facts shall we. The KJV uses:
less syllables per word
less letters per word
less words per sentence
smaller percentage of long words
greater percentage of short words than the NKJV, NIV, NASB and NRSV
There you go guys...no perfect Bible. Hey world, our Bible, the one we claim to be the word of God, is not perfect. Do you know what that means? It can't be trusted. If it's not perfect truth, it can't be trusted.
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LaurenTM
Guest
3rd grade comprehension level you say?
source please, cause that is sure not what I have found when I did some research
so, please provide your source for that
C
CharlieGrown
Guest
L
LaurenTM
Guest
- Mounce — 12+ (ages 17+)
- KJV — 12+ (ages 17+)
- RSV — 12+ (ages 17+)
- Geneva — 12+ (ages 17+)
- WEB — 12+ (ages 17+)
- NRSV — 11+ (ages 16+)
- NASB — 11+ (ages 16+)
- Amplified — 11+ (ages 16+)
- MEV — 11+ (ages 16+)
- LEB — 11+ (ages 16+)
- ESV — 10+ (ages 15+)
- J.B. Phillips NT — 10+ (ages 15+)
- NABRE — 9+ (ages 14+)
- NIV — 7+ (ages 12+)
- CEB — 7+ (ages 12+)
- NET — 7+ (ages 12+)
- GNT — 7+ (ages 12+)
- ISV — 7+ (ages 12+)
- NKJV — 7+ (ages 12+)
- HCSB — 7+ (ages 12+)
- The Voice — 6+ (ages 11+)
- NLT — 6+ (ages 11+)
- CEV — 5+ (ages 10+)
- GW — 5+ (ages 10+)
- The Message — 4+ (ages 9+)
- Living — 4+ (ages 9+)
- ERV — 4+ (ages 9+)
- NCV — 3+ (ages 7+)
- ICB — 3+ (ages 7+)
- NIrV — 3+ (ages 7+)
SOURCE
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CharlieGrown
Guest
my recall is a tad off, it was apparently 4th grade. but, it may have shifted since comprehension is not what it was in public schools in the 70's.
Is the King James Bible harder to read
If there is no perfect bible then there is no standard. If there's no standard then the God we believe in is the God we create in our minds.
C
CharlieGrown
Guest
By perfect bible, you mean translation? We would have to go back to the original text wouldn't we?
A Greek or Hebrew bible is worthless to me, I don't know either language. Why would we as English speakers need to go back to the originals (which don't exist anymore) to have a perfect bible. Language is not a barrier for God, God is plenty capable of translating his word into any language. Wouldn't you agree?
C
CharlieGrown
Guest
God has no barriers, agreed. But language does, especially English. The KJV is rated in the upper 90 percentile of accuracy. I wouldn't build a doctrine on KJV usage alone, but it's the one I adhere. to.
Yikes, aren't we the testimony of Jesus ? The bible is the word of God, but I doubt many people came to believe in God by reading a bible ... The believed because they saw us! We who carry the light of Jesus ! Love in action! Kindness, gentleness, joy in suffering, praise in tribulation, singing in the face of danger!! Sorry for butting in but I sincerely feel with all my heart love is all we need! We all see now through a blurred lens! So let's let our focus always be on love LOVE ! Not discord or petty arguments over one or two lines or a small mistranslation here and there. Even if some bible ARE trying to blot out the truth, we have Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us in all truth! You think a few editors can confound or suppress the word of almighty God ? Who can make donkies speak and water burst forth from rocks ?
The bible is good! All translations are wonderful! Some are more verbose, some are more plain, the core message is the same ! Unity! Love! Fellowship in Christ! Redemption !!!! Theology makes me cry because we should be hugging !!!
Sorry if what I'm saying is off topic... But my dear brothers and sisters, we love Jesus! He did not bring us a bible to teach us though he could confound the hypocritical Pharisees with scripture. He taugh in parables , real world examples. To make us understand love! To make us understand righteousness! (Yes I know to hide also with parables the truth from the supposed wise) but for the little ears who craved truth, the dull ones who had faith, the gospel was preached by not just words but love and miracles!
It it grevies me to see us brethren squabble over such asinine matters as translations ! Let's just read our bibles and be glad
read the translation you like and celebrate! The word of God is alive! It is in us flowing, bubbling as a sprig ready to overflow and wash our brethren ! Wash the dirty, wash our wives (haha it's in there at least in one translation ! Husbands wash your wives in the word) the word is a spring ! It's beautiful!!!! Lets love it and honor it !
The bible is good! All translations are wonderful! Some are more verbose, some are more plain, the core message is the same ! Unity! Love! Fellowship in Christ! Redemption !!!! Theology makes me cry because we should be hugging !!!
Sorry if what I'm saying is off topic... But my dear brothers and sisters, we love Jesus! He did not bring us a bible to teach us though he could confound the hypocritical Pharisees with scripture. He taugh in parables , real world examples. To make us understand love! To make us understand righteousness! (Yes I know to hide also with parables the truth from the supposed wise) but for the little ears who craved truth, the dull ones who had faith, the gospel was preached by not just words but love and miracles!
It it grevies me to see us brethren squabble over such asinine matters as translations ! Let's just read our bibles and be glad
read the translation you like and celebrate! The word of God is alive! It is in us flowing, bubbling as a sprig ready to overflow and wash our brethren ! Wash the dirty, wash our wives (haha it's in there at least in one translation ! Husbands wash your wives in the word) the word is a spring ! It's beautiful!!!! Lets love it and honor it !
What English barrier would that be Charlie? What concept in the Greek or Hebrew language is not conveyable in the English language?
C
CharlieGrown
Guest
I believe it's more in the context of individual words. English can have many different definitions of the same word which by default can cause a challenge in translation or interpretation.
Hmm going back to the original manuscripts is impossible. There are no original manuscripts anymore. What we have are copies of the autographa. Essentially the copies which are closer to the autographa are more "accurate." However, we do know that some manuscripts are riddled with errors. The Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus have so many errors, it's hard to take them seriously... however, many bibles are based off of texts that also use these error prone manuscripts.
We also have the issue that those manuscripts which are more accurate are used more... because of their accuracy. So the more one uses a manuscript (usually made out of papyrus back then), the more wear and tear is experienced by that manuscript and it degrades. So while we may have "newer" copies of the autographa, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are less "accurate" than some of the older manuscripts which may not have been used as much.
This is our dilemma. We can go back to the "older" manuscripts or we can look at "newer" copies of the autographa which may be more accurate. The Nestle text as well as the Westcott and Hort suffer from the fact that they utilize the error prone codexes because... hey it's older. Because of this, certain bible translations have actual alterations to the meaning of scripture by context, so it affects our understanding of what God was intending for us to know.
Which bible should we use? Obviously the one that the Lord directs us to use. However, we do need to be careful with "some" of the newer translations as the errors from certain "manuscripts" have been carried up into some of the newer translations. I will say that my friends gave me an NIV in college, and as I began to apply scripture to my life many years later, the Lord told me to put down the NIV and choose another bible. Currently using the NKJV and KJV+Strongs+BDB+Thayers for deeper study.
We also have the issue that those manuscripts which are more accurate are used more... because of their accuracy. So the more one uses a manuscript (usually made out of papyrus back then), the more wear and tear is experienced by that manuscript and it degrades. So while we may have "newer" copies of the autographa, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are less "accurate" than some of the older manuscripts which may not have been used as much.
This is our dilemma. We can go back to the "older" manuscripts or we can look at "newer" copies of the autographa which may be more accurate. The Nestle text as well as the Westcott and Hort suffer from the fact that they utilize the error prone codexes because... hey it's older. Because of this, certain bible translations have actual alterations to the meaning of scripture by context, so it affects our understanding of what God was intending for us to know.
Which bible should we use? Obviously the one that the Lord directs us to use. However, we do need to be careful with "some" of the newer translations as the errors from certain "manuscripts" have been carried up into some of the newer translations. I will say that my friends gave me an NIV in college, and as I began to apply scripture to my life many years later, the Lord told me to put down the NIV and choose another bible. Currently using the NKJV and KJV+Strongs+BDB+Thayers for deeper study.
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CharlieGrown
Guest
It it grevies me to see us brethren squabble over such asinine matters as translations ! Let's just read our bibles and be glad
No squabbling from me, I believe the Holy Spirit is fully capable of speaking through any version.
It is sad that the word of God can't be discussed without squabbling. I personally enjoy showing others what God has shown me in his word. Unfortunately some are not going to get it and they're going to squabble.Yikes, aren't we the testimony of Jesus ? The bible is the word of God, but I doubt many people came to believe in God by reading a bible ... The believed because they saw us! We who carry the light of Jesus ! Love in action! Kindness, gentleness, joy in suffering, praise in tribulation, singing in the face of danger!! Sorry for butting in but I sincerely feel with all my heart love is all we need! We all see now through a blurred lens! So let's let our focus always be on love LOVE ! Not discord or petty arguments over one or two lines or a small mistranslation here and there. Even if some bible ARE trying to blot out the truth, we have Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us in all truth! You think a few editors can confound or suppress the word of almighty God ? Who can make donkies speak and water burst forth from rocks ?
The bible is good! All translations are wonderful! Some are more verbose, some are more plain, the core message is the same ! Unity! Love! Fellowship in Christ! Redemption !!!! Theology makes me cry because we should be hugging !!!
Sorry if what I'm saying is off topic... But my dear brothers and sisters, we love Jesus! He did not bring us a bible to teach us though he could confound the hypocritical Pharisees with scripture. He taugh in parables , real world examples. To make us understand love! To make us understand righteousness! (Yes I know to hide also with parables the truth from the supposed wise) but for the little ears who craved truth, the dull ones who had faith, the gospel was preached by not just words but love and miracles!
It it grevies me to see us brethren squabble over such asinine matters as translations ! Let's just read our bibles and be glad
Just name one concept that can't be conveyed in English. I'm not being a smartie, I just can't think of any concept of any type that can't bridge languages.
C
CharlieGrown
Guest
I didn't say there are concepts that cannot be bridged. My opinion is KJV nails it the closest. The more words are changed or replaced, the more potential for ambiguity.
Oh boy lol. Your name is kjv1611. I'll answer for you on two accounts thought I don't quite know for sure. Google is aviable for cross reference.
1. The time Jesus asked Peter three times do you love me.
he used agape the first two times and Peter responded with lord I phileo you. So,e theologians argue that the 2nd time was to challenge Peter to rise up and in faith declare that he agapes Jesus. The third time Jesus used phileo, and Peter wept saying lord you know I phileo you. Some theologians says it broke peters heart that he only phileoed jesus and that Jesus knew it... Yet Jesus encouraged him still using peters confession of faith as a rock and pillar for the church
2. When Jesus is said to have prayed for the people during his crucifixion (you'll have to find the verse) , the word prayed implied he did it only once but the Greek which has a progressive? Past tense implies that he Continued to pray for them adding depth to his compassion.
and now my message to you : just love and hug and smile. Look at 1 co 8:1. Knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies some translations say puffs up some say makes pride... Same meaning but knowledge is nothing and will pass away!!!! What remains is faith hope and love! The greatest of which is love !!! Faith in Jesus not a translation! Hope in Jesus not a translation! Love in Jesus.... How do you even love a translation lol???
Love ve in action is what builds unity in the kingdom!
If a 5 year old said to you for God so loved the world he gave his son so that we can live , is it impertinent that you add begotten ??? No!!! Jesus was given and a young pure mind understands that!!!!
The he gospel is simple and pure, and he language of love is absolutely ineffable ! You think English can handle love???? Of course not! That's why the spirit intercedes in utterings and groans too deep for us to understand!!!
My brother in Christ , I employ beseech and exhort ou to love as a priority and to not give thought to such trivial matters as translation!
1. The time Jesus asked Peter three times do you love me.
he used agape the first two times and Peter responded with lord I phileo you. So,e theologians argue that the 2nd time was to challenge Peter to rise up and in faith declare that he agapes Jesus. The third time Jesus used phileo, and Peter wept saying lord you know I phileo you. Some theologians says it broke peters heart that he only phileoed jesus and that Jesus knew it... Yet Jesus encouraged him still using peters confession of faith as a rock and pillar for the church
2. When Jesus is said to have prayed for the people during his crucifixion (you'll have to find the verse) , the word prayed implied he did it only once but the Greek which has a progressive? Past tense implies that he Continued to pray for them adding depth to his compassion.
and now my message to you : just love
and hug and smile. Look at 1 co 8:1. Knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies some translations say puffs up some say makes pride... Same meaning but knowledge is nothing and will pass away!!!! What remains is faith hope and love! The greatest of which is love !!! Faith in Jesus not a translation! Hope in Jesus not a translation! Love in Jesus.... How do you even love a translation lol??? Love ve in action is what builds unity in the kingdom!
If a 5 year old said to you for God so loved the world he gave his son so that we can live , is it impertinent that you add begotten ??? No!!! Jesus was given and a young pure mind understands that!!!!
The he gospel is simple and pure, and he language of love is absolutely ineffable ! You think English can handle love???? Of course not! That's why the spirit intercedes in utterings and groans too deep for us to understand!!!
My brother in Christ , I employ beseech and exhort ou to love as a priority and to not give thought to such trivial matters as translation!
If God is behind the translation then there is zero potential for ambiguity. Ambiguity comes in when people read 4 or 5 different versions and decide for themselves which word they want it to be. No truth can ever come from that method, the truth will always be up to the readers biases and preconceived ideas.