the lie that Jesus ministry was law
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I agree that we need to be born-again before the life of Christ can be manifested to bear His fruit in and through us.
Religion tries to "mandate" the fruit of the Spirit and tries to force people to "do the words of Jesus". Whereas I believe doing the words of Jesus is a by-product of our union with Christ and is a manifestation of His life bearing in us.
Sometimes it is how the "application" of Jesus words is manifested too that people can have different opinions on.
Just some of my thoughts on the subject...
Religion tries to "mandate" the fruit of the Spirit and tries to force people to "do the words of Jesus". Whereas I believe doing the words of Jesus is a by-product of our union with Christ and is a manifestation of His life bearing in us.
Sometimes it is how the "application" of Jesus words is manifested too that people can have different opinions on.
Just some of my thoughts on the subject...
First of all, comparing christians to paralized people is, how shall I say it..... STUPID. RIDICULOUS.
And you say we can't. Why? Jesus said BE YE PERFECT. Perfect in what?
Matthew 5:43-48 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP]"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE your neighbor and hate your enemy.' [SUP]44 [/SUP]"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [SUP]45 [/SUP]so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. [SUP]46[/SUP]"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? [SUP]47 [/SUP]"If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? [SUP]48 [/SUP]"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Verse 48. Be ye therefore perfect, he concludes this part of the discourse by commanding his disciples to be perfect. This word commonly means finished, complete, pure, holy. Originally it is applied to a piece of mechanism, as a machine that is complete in its parts. Applied to men, it refers to completeness of parts, or perfection, when no part is defective or wanting. Thus Job (Job 1:1) is said to be perfect; that is, not holy as God, or sinless-for fault is afterwards found with him, (Job 9:20, 42:6) but his piety was proportionate-had a completeness of parts-was consistent and regular, he exhibited his religion as a prince, a father, an individual, a benefactor of the poor. He was not merely a pious man in one place, but uniformly. He was consistent everywhere. This was the meaning in Matthew. Be not religious merely in loving your friends and neighbours, but let your piety be shown in loving your enemies; be perfect; imitate God; let the piety be complete, and proportionate, and regular. This every Christian may be; this every Christian must be.
Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.
5:1-2. Each Christian should be an imitator of God because he is God's child. As a child imitates his parents, so ought a believer to imitate God (cf. Matt. 5:48; Luke 6:36).
The and should be translated "that is" in order to convey the idea that Ephesians 5:2 explains how a believer is to imitate God: by walking in love. The supreme example of this love is Christ's love for His own—He loved us; seen graphically in His sacrificing His life on behalf of those who would believe. He willingly gave Himself up (cf. v. 25; John 10:11, 15, 17-18; Gal. 1:4; Heb. 9:14). This offering was a fragrance pleasing (and thus acceptable) to God (cf. Lev. 1:17; 3:16; Isa. 53:10). (The idea of fragrant offerings is also spoken of in 2 Cor. 2:15-16; Phil. 4:18.) Christians can imitate God by loving others, even to the point of death if necessary (1 John 3:16).
The Bible Knowledge Commentary
And you say we can't. Why? Jesus said BE YE PERFECT. Perfect in what?
Matthew 5:43-48 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP]"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE your neighbor and hate your enemy.' [SUP]44 [/SUP]"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [SUP]45 [/SUP]so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. [SUP]46[/SUP]"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? [SUP]47 [/SUP]"If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? [SUP]48 [/SUP]"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Verse 48. Be ye therefore perfect, he concludes this part of the discourse by commanding his disciples to be perfect. This word commonly means finished, complete, pure, holy. Originally it is applied to a piece of mechanism, as a machine that is complete in its parts. Applied to men, it refers to completeness of parts, or perfection, when no part is defective or wanting. Thus Job (Job 1:1) is said to be perfect; that is, not holy as God, or sinless-for fault is afterwards found with him, (Job 9:20, 42:6) but his piety was proportionate-had a completeness of parts-was consistent and regular, he exhibited his religion as a prince, a father, an individual, a benefactor of the poor. He was not merely a pious man in one place, but uniformly. He was consistent everywhere. This was the meaning in Matthew. Be not religious merely in loving your friends and neighbours, but let your piety be shown in loving your enemies; be perfect; imitate God; let the piety be complete, and proportionate, and regular. This every Christian may be; this every Christian must be.
Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.
5:1-2. Each Christian should be an imitator of God because he is God's child. As a child imitates his parents, so ought a believer to imitate God (cf. Matt. 5:48; Luke 6:36).
The and should be translated "that is" in order to convey the idea that Ephesians 5:2 explains how a believer is to imitate God: by walking in love. The supreme example of this love is Christ's love for His own—He loved us; seen graphically in His sacrificing His life on behalf of those who would believe. He willingly gave Himself up (cf. v. 25; John 10:11, 15, 17-18; Gal. 1:4; Heb. 9:14). This offering was a fragrance pleasing (and thus acceptable) to God (cf. Lev. 1:17; 3:16; Isa. 53:10). (The idea of fragrant offerings is also spoken of in 2 Cor. 2:15-16; Phil. 4:18.) Christians can imitate God by loving others, even to the point of death if necessary (1 John 3:16).
The Bible Knowledge Commentary
John 15:5 [FONT="]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: [/FONT][FONT="]for without me ye can do nothing[/FONT][FONT="].
[/FONT]What seems stupid to me is prideful ignorance. No amount of reasoning can stop it, it seems.
[/FONT]What seems stupid to me is prideful ignorance. No amount of reasoning can stop it, it seems.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Obey the Father. We (most) obey our parents in this age, how much more we should obey our Eternal Father............
Obey the Father. We (most) obey our parents in this age, how much more we should obey our Eternal Father............
Jesus, in His gospel to mankind, teaches how to use the law lawfully. He tears down any laws that are no more in His teaching replacing laws of punishement with mercy.
It twirls the mind hearing "grace only" folks saying all the law hangs on love, and then they tell all just how much they love without the knowledge that if all the law that is important is included in the law, they will obey them..
I am afraid these folks are sadly amiss and lack understanding from Jesus, Yeshua. He destroyed the curse of the law for those who believe, that is death or any punishment.
It really is so easy to understand yet, it is not by many, perhaps most, and this is heart-breaking.
It twirls the mind hearing "grace only" folks saying all the law hangs on love, and then they tell all just how much they love without the knowledge that if all the law that is important is included in the law, they will obey them..
I am afraid these folks are sadly amiss and lack understanding from Jesus, Yeshua. He destroyed the curse of the law for those who believe, that is death or any punishment.
It really is so easy to understand yet, it is not by many, perhaps most, and this is heart-breaking.
After many years of teaching the law the Jews had gotten things unbalanced and Jesus told them that mercy and grace is important as well, and He helped them and us to understand the meaning of the laws in more detail.
Jesus didn't change the law or make the law less important. God doesn't change. Some parts of the law were fulfilled and they mean nothing now that we have Jesus. But stealing and murdering and taking the Lords name in vain stands forever.
No law means no need for grace or mercy.
Grace is needed because the Law is not able to be changed or altered and we are made guilty by the law.
if we could be saved by changing the law than Jesus didn't need to die and if we could be saved by keeping the law than Jesus didn't need to die either.
The law hold us guilty and Jesus saves us from the guilt. Perfect, The law stands but we are able to stand as well.
Jesus didn't change the law or make the law less important. God doesn't change. Some parts of the law were fulfilled and they mean nothing now that we have Jesus. But stealing and murdering and taking the Lords name in vain stands forever.
No law means no need for grace or mercy.
Grace is needed because the Law is not able to be changed or altered and we are made guilty by the law.
if we could be saved by changing the law than Jesus didn't need to die and if we could be saved by keeping the law than Jesus didn't need to die either.
The law hold us guilty and Jesus saves us from the guilt. Perfect, The law stands but we are able to stand as well.
When Jesus called His disciples, He said, "follow Me". He said to take up our cross & follow Him.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.You see prideful ignorance..... I see disinformation created in christianeze. LIES.
We are to avail ourselves to Jesus Christ as His servants just as He availed Himself to the Father..
It is ignorant to believe we are to do nothing in order to appear as though we are in grace.
That gift of faith, like the talent of gold, is not to be buried in the dirt. We are to do something with it in the light of God's Holy Spirit....
It is ignorant to believe we are to do nothing in order to appear as though we are in grace.
That gift of faith, like the talent of gold, is not to be buried in the dirt. We are to do something with it in the light of God's Holy Spirit....
Okay,I think you are saying that obedience to faith Is a work,but would you agree that obedience to faith FOR salvation Is only required once before GOD?
+++
Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)
1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
+++
John 6:26-29
King James Version(KJV)
26.)Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27.)Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28.)Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29.)Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
+++
Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)
1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
+++
John 6:26-29
King James Version(KJV)
26.)Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27.)Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28.)Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29.)Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Were I to want to say "obey faith" I would say obey faith.
As far as I know there is no god named faith. I believe we are all to obey God. When I say I belie this I mean I believe it, not that I am think about it as a possiblity.
Thank you for attempting to teach me how you think, but I prefer the way Jesus Christ thinks an teaches, that is Jesus Christ and all who believe and hear Him...............
As far as I know there is no god named faith. I believe we are all to obey God. When I say I belie this I mean I believe it, not that I am think about it as a possiblity.
Thank you for attempting to teach me how you think, but I prefer the way Jesus Christ thinks an teaches, that is Jesus Christ and all who believe and hear Him...............
Romans 10:6:9
King James Version(KJV)
6.)But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7.)Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8.)But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9.)That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
King James Version(KJV)
6.)But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7.)Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8.)But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9.)That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
I myself see what you are saying, yet i see it differently. The sermon on the mount is the gospel of Gods Kingdom, The Law was Given through Moses, moses was told the word of God, then told the people. in romans we realize " the law was added because of mans sin"
to see it all as One picture from eden to revelation, it becomes a Plan of salvation we are learning about. Like a House, first you have to diga hole , then lay a foundation, then plumbing, then framing and wiring, then after some time you get into the interior of the home, and finally in the end you have a complete Home, well built, thats how i see Gods Word.
First adam was made the image of God, then the enemy came and decieved His mind, turning His mind against God , adam at this point is a sinner in his heart because His thinking has been made " double" Good and evil now is adams Knowledge. this is what paul is saying when referring to the flesh and spirit in constant conflict with each other, so that we know what is right and good, but as a sinner we cant do what we know is right ( romans 7:8-23) In eden when satan tempted adam through eve, mankinds parents both consumned the knowledge of Good and evil, we became the cursed " double nature" our parents fell from Gods image, and returned to the dust because they did not trust Gods Word, they broke faith with God. Then chapter 8 tells us how that cures, that double nature is healed through putting to death the nature of sin, that is a result of the fall, but also a result of the sin that we each live in in our lives. the root of sin is in our hearts and minds, we simply "are" sinners, sinners are those who have the double nature. but we in Christ Have clear directions which nature we are bound to follow, being born again is the new Nature of Jesus Christ. THAT in my belief is what the gospel is, it is Gods teaching for man to become His children, by accepting the Life of His Son, By accepting His Son as Lord of all and actually treating Him as such woth the lives we Live.
the Law is different from the gospel. it came to the old creation, declared a death sentance to all, SO THAT it can all be by Gods Grace, this redemption He offers through Jesus, this salvation we all seek and hope in is all because God is Great........this does not change what the bible teaches us to do, our part is to learn and follow Jesus Words. we arent supposed to obey the mosaic law in Christ. if we did we would : stone our children when they dishonored us, judge one another according to written rules and Laws, we would have to sacrifice animals for our sins, and the priest would offer the animals blood for us for atonement. the Law of moses is what we now refer to as Judaism. it is a part of the plan of salvation, the Law takes a person and shows them everything " to NOT do" paul says it " the Law makes us conscious of sin, makes us aware that lying is sin, stealing is sin, adultery is sin...ect. the Law came to a sinful race of Humans that needed the regulations because thier Hearts always went astray like many do today who need Law, and yet reject it as evil. even now the law serves a great purpose in Christianity, it teaches us to understand Jesus, it still Gives us all of the Morality we need to know and accept.
the Law remains, but those in Christ Have died. and when you die, you are paid up in full and the law ends at death. Nothing in the law is applied after we pass away. The Gospel deals with the Kingdom of God who is spirit. the gospel deals with eternal Life. the Law is flesh, the gospel is the spirit. notice the new test. how so many writings tell us to keep fixed on what we know is coming when Jesus returns. pauls says " set your minds on things above not earthly things. Jesus always spoke of storing treasures in Heaven and keepoing our hearts toward the eternal Kingdom of God. Peter says " we should Live here as strangers in reverant fear"..the book of Hebrews says " men of Faith are living on earth as foreigners, we walk looking forward to Our promised Land of eternity with God the Father and our Savior Jesus his Son the Christ.
the Law and gospel have unity in the One plan, but the Law and gospel are very different in purpose , in spirit, in nature in really everything. both are good, Christians Learn from moses, but we follow Jesus
to see it all as One picture from eden to revelation, it becomes a Plan of salvation we are learning about. Like a House, first you have to diga hole , then lay a foundation, then plumbing, then framing and wiring, then after some time you get into the interior of the home, and finally in the end you have a complete Home, well built, thats how i see Gods Word.
First adam was made the image of God, then the enemy came and decieved His mind, turning His mind against God , adam at this point is a sinner in his heart because His thinking has been made " double" Good and evil now is adams Knowledge. this is what paul is saying when referring to the flesh and spirit in constant conflict with each other, so that we know what is right and good, but as a sinner we cant do what we know is right ( romans 7:8-23) In eden when satan tempted adam through eve, mankinds parents both consumned the knowledge of Good and evil, we became the cursed " double nature" our parents fell from Gods image, and returned to the dust because they did not trust Gods Word, they broke faith with God. Then chapter 8 tells us how that cures, that double nature is healed through putting to death the nature of sin, that is a result of the fall, but also a result of the sin that we each live in in our lives. the root of sin is in our hearts and minds, we simply "are" sinners, sinners are those who have the double nature. but we in Christ Have clear directions which nature we are bound to follow, being born again is the new Nature of Jesus Christ. THAT in my belief is what the gospel is, it is Gods teaching for man to become His children, by accepting the Life of His Son, By accepting His Son as Lord of all and actually treating Him as such woth the lives we Live.
the Law is different from the gospel. it came to the old creation, declared a death sentance to all, SO THAT it can all be by Gods Grace, this redemption He offers through Jesus, this salvation we all seek and hope in is all because God is Great........this does not change what the bible teaches us to do, our part is to learn and follow Jesus Words. we arent supposed to obey the mosaic law in Christ. if we did we would : stone our children when they dishonored us, judge one another according to written rules and Laws, we would have to sacrifice animals for our sins, and the priest would offer the animals blood for us for atonement. the Law of moses is what we now refer to as Judaism. it is a part of the plan of salvation, the Law takes a person and shows them everything " to NOT do" paul says it " the Law makes us conscious of sin, makes us aware that lying is sin, stealing is sin, adultery is sin...ect. the Law came to a sinful race of Humans that needed the regulations because thier Hearts always went astray like many do today who need Law, and yet reject it as evil. even now the law serves a great purpose in Christianity, it teaches us to understand Jesus, it still Gives us all of the Morality we need to know and accept.
the Law remains, but those in Christ Have died. and when you die, you are paid up in full and the law ends at death. Nothing in the law is applied after we pass away. The Gospel deals with the Kingdom of God who is spirit. the gospel deals with eternal Life. the Law is flesh, the gospel is the spirit. notice the new test. how so many writings tell us to keep fixed on what we know is coming when Jesus returns. pauls says " set your minds on things above not earthly things. Jesus always spoke of storing treasures in Heaven and keepoing our hearts toward the eternal Kingdom of God. Peter says " we should Live here as strangers in reverant fear"..the book of Hebrews says " men of Faith are living on earth as foreigners, we walk looking forward to Our promised Land of eternity with God the Father and our Savior Jesus his Son the Christ.
the Law and gospel have unity in the One plan, but the Law and gospel are very different in purpose , in spirit, in nature in really everything. both are good, Christians Learn from moses, but we follow Jesus