is Smoking a sin?

[dane_g87]

Livingbygrace when I confessed that I break God's commandments daily, I did not mean that I deliberately practiced disobedience against Him. I did not mean that I blatantly went out to commit adultery or to deliberately lust, or to murder or deliberately hate. I did not mean any of that. What I meant by my breaking His commandments, was that while I was striving to obey Him, I cannot expect to be able to perfectly keep them as His justice requires. I may have kept myself from adultery today, but the full intention of that commandment was not fulfilled 100% in all my being this day. I dare not have the arrogance to claim that I kept one of God's commandments 100% completely perfectly this day unlike you. You keep taking technicalities out of my words and twist them and that's the only foundation you have for an argument against me. All you have done thus far is twist my words and accuse me of things I do not believe. You cannot hold an educated, godly discussion because all of your arguments are rooted in your defensiveness, because you practice the very things the word and law of God declares you should not. And when someone like me comes along and tells you what the law says, you scream legalism. You condemn me for saying that true Christians will have a degree of obedience in their walk; and you say I believe that we are saved by this obedience. But you fail to see that the only thing I have been saying all along is that we are saved only by Christ, and that we have received the grace of God is made evident by those works which we carry out. I have always said here that we strive to obey God not in order to be saved, but because we are saved. This Spurgeon also said exactly himself:



Charles Spurgeon - "The old covenant was broken, and we became condemned thereby, but now, having suffered death in Christ, we are no more under it, but are dead to it. Brethren, at this present moment, although we rejoice to do good works, we are not seeking life through them, we are not hoping to obtain divine favour by our own goodness, nor even to keep ourselves in the love of God by any merit of our own. Chosen, not for our works, but according to the eternal will and good pleasure of God; called, not of works, but by the Spirit of God, we desire to continue in this grace and return no more to the bondage of the old covenant. Since we have put our trust in an atonement provided and applied by grace through Christ Jesus, we are no longer slaves but children, not working to be saved, but saved already, and working because we are saved."

 

[livingbygrace]

Livingbygrace, let me ask you a question. Are you practicing blatant sin in your life? When you are confronted about a particular sin, do you repent from it, or do you continue in it?

I am very glad you asked that I can give you an answer now that explains where truwe victory comes from.

When I went to a church that stressed 'being good enough(which in effect is always law keeping) I found what the Apostle Paul did. Sin used the good laws of God to condemn me. Instead of living by faitrh in Christ I lived according to law.

As with Paul I became consumed wewithv lust and for me masturbation as well. I wfelt heavy depressed and condemned, as Paul did. But Ia never read beyond the Gospels as a Child. The harder I tried to please God the worse I became.

Ypou see then I believed as you do now. I become a Christian by faith, but then law comes into it. I was guilt ridden as any sincere Christian would have to be.

Wen I was nineteen I had left the church but was desperately unhappy and guilt ridden still. But God came to me and someone asked me to read a book. I did. It was the beginig of true grace for me. I won't go into it all, but I learnt I was acceptable to God only by faith in His son, and I was not under the law.

I desperately wanted the masturbation to stop. Any true Chriustian cannnot want to deliberately sin. But whereas before I had let my sin(against the law) condemn me this time I did not. I lived according to the Bible principles and Spurgeons. For three ofr four days I continued to masturbate and think of women, but this time I did not let it condemn me or focus on trying to stop it. I tld Jesus I did not want to do it and left it in His hands. I lived by the highest law of all faith in Jesuus.

Voices in my head said. 'You can't be a Christian and do these things. But I ignored them and kept lkooking to Jesus knowing and believing I was saved under faith in Him. In under a week the massturbation stopped. And it only stopped because I did not in effect concentrate in any way on law, buty by the highest law of all, faith in Jesus.

Now what do youb think God thought. Did He rejoice that I had trusted in His Son? or did He wish I had dwelt on law and vdelighted in it. Because I can assure you if I had done that I would not have been free

 

[dane_g87]

God desires that we trust in His Son, and trusting in His Son also involves trusting in what the Son commanded us. Jesus said, "Why do you call Me, 'Lord' and not do the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) and "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments," (John 14:12).

Jesus said, "If your hand or eye causes you to sin, cut it off or pluck it out; for it is better to go without those into life than your whole body into Hell." - Why would Jesus command this if He could care less about us obeying Him?

If Paul said, "No adulterer, fornicator, thief, homosexual, idolater, extortioner, etc will enter the kingdom of Heaven," (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), why do you say we don't have commandments to obey? Obviously we are to obey the commandments not to do these things, because Paul said those who practice them are hellbound.

Why did John say, "Those who do not practice righteousness are children of Satan" (1 John 3)? If practicing righteousness was not important, why did John declare that practicing it was the deciding factor between Christians and non-Christians?

If Jesus declared that those who are lawless, even if they call Him Lord, are condemned, what law was He talking about? And why are those who are lawless condemned?

 

[livingbygrace]

Livingbygrace when I confessed that I break God's commandments daily, I did not mean that I deliberately practiced disobedience against Him. I did not mean that I blatantly went out to commit adultery or to deliberately lust, or to murder or deliberately hate. I did not mean any of that. What I meant by my breaking His commandments, was that while I was striving to obey Him, I cannot expect to be able to perfectly keep them as His justice requires. I may have kept myself from adultery today, but the full intention of that commandment was not fulfilled 100% in all my being this day. I dare not have the arrogance to claim that I kept one of God's commandments 100% completely perfectly this day unlike you. You keep taking technicalities out of my words and twist them and that's the only foundation you have for an argument against me. All you have done thus far is twist my words and accuse me of things I do not believe. You cannot hold an educated, godly discussion because all of your arguments are rooted in your defensiveness, because you practice the very things the word and law of God declares you should not. And when someone like me comes along and tells you what the law says, you scream legalism. You condemn me for saying that true Christians will have a degree of obedience in their walk; and you say I believe that we are saved by this obedience. But you fail to see that the only thing I have been saying all along is that we are saved only by Christ, and that we have received the grace of God is made evident by those works which we carry out. I have always said here that we strive to obey God not in order to be saved, but because we are saved. This Spurgeon also said exactly himself:



Charles Spurgeon - "The old covenant was broken, and we became condemned thereby, but now, having suffered death in Christ, we are no more under it, but are dead to it. Brethren, at this present moment, although we rejoice to do good works, we are not seeking life through them, we are not hoping to obtain divine favour by our own goodness, nor even to keep ourselves in the love of God by any merit of our own. Chosen, not for our works, but according to the eternal will and good pleasure of God; called, not of works, but by the Spirit of God, we desire to continue in this grace and return no more to the bondage of the old covenant. Since we have put our trust in an atonement provided and applied by grace through Christ Jesus, we are no longer slaves but children, not working to be saved, but saved already, and working because we are saved."

I only repeat your spoken word, nothing else. I do not pretend to perfectly uphold all of God's good laws, I necver have, but I do not at this time break them all either, I would be a liar if I sauid that I did.

I am quite sure you are not breakingb them bercause you want to. This is why byou desperately need to understand true grace.

I think you should stop quoting Spurgereon now. On theimportant issue I certainly believe he is far clod=ser to me than you

 

[livingbygrace]

God desires that we trust in His Son, and trusting in His Son also involves trusting in what the Son commanded us. Jesus said, "Why do you call Me, 'Lord' and not do the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) and "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments," (John 14:12).

Jesus said, "If your hand or eye causes you to sin, cut it off or pluck it out; for it is better to go without those into life than your whole body into Hell." - Why would Jesus command this if He could care less about us obeying Him?

If Paul said, "No adulterer, fornicator, thief, homosexual, idolater, extortioner, etc will enter the kingdom of Heaven," (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), why do you say we don't have commandments to obey? Obviously we are to obey the commandments not to do these things, because Paul said those who practice them are hellbound.

Why did John say, "Those who do not practice righteousness are children of Satan" (1 John 3)? If practicing righteousness was not important, why did John declare that practicing it was the deciding factor between Christians and non-Christians?

If Jesus declared that those who are lawless, even if they call Him Lord, are condemned, what law was He talking about? And why are those who are lawless condemned?

Dane, all you are doing by these posts is showing that you do not understand the truec grace Paul spoke of.

You know since I left that church I have taken no instruction from any chuirch. I have relied on what the Bible says and the Holy Spirit. I am sure you may point out to me the grave dangers in that. But I am pleased. There are so many conflicting messages from digfferent ministers, and many go by the minister rather than the Bible. I do not. I don't read any religios books unless they are biographies. So its just me me, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit

 

[dane_g87]

You have only shown how full of yourself you really are. Spurgeon is blatantly opposed to you and your theology. Everything I have said, Spurgeon has said. Everything you said, Spurgeon has directly contradicted.

Spurgeon has said these:
- True believers delight and meditate in the law of God
- True believers strive after righteousness
- True believers strive to obey God not in order to be saved but because they are saved.

I have also said the above, and you have denied them with the contrary:
- You've said believers do not delight in the law as they are not under the law
- You've said believers aren't striving after anything
- You've said striving to obey God, period, is legalism and seeking to be justified by works


And now I am informed of even more of your personal lawlessness. You deny the direct command "not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together" (Hebrews 10:25), as though the commandments of the apostles were given in vain and not under the authority of Christ. Spurgeon himself preached of the necessity of being a member of a church. Just as you reject Spurgeon on the matter of obedience from the heart, so you reject Spurgeon on the matter of church membership.

You are consumed in lawlessness and in will-worship, and idolatry and arrogance. You refuse to believe you are in dire need of accountability in the church, as you think you can "go it alone." You trust in your own personal understanding and interpretation, which is why you err.

 

[livingbygrace]

You have only shown how full of yourself you really are. Spurgeon is blatantly opposed to you and your theology. Everything I have said, Spurgeon has said. Everything you said, Spurgeon has directly contradicted.

Spurgeon has said these:
- True believers delight and meditate in the law of God
- True believers strive after righteousness
- True believers strive to obey God not in order to be saved but because they are saved.

I have also said the above, and you have denied them with the contrary:
- You've said believers do not delight in the law as they are not under the law
- You've said believers aren't striving after anything
- You've said striving to obey God, period, is legalism and seeking to be justified by works


And now I am informed of even more of your personal lawlessness. You deny the direct command "not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together" (Hebrews 10:25), as though the commandments of the apostles were given in vain and not under the authority of Christ.

Dane, for your own sake, please stop. Forr the umpteenth time Spurgeon said we are not under law for condemnation. That is what youb posted. I am qwuite happy for others to read your posts and decide if that is what you believe. Because I firmly believe it

 

[dane_g87]

Why don't you quote the full text? Spurgeon said while we are not under law, we very well are IN the law - utterly consumed by it, delighting in it and meditating on it. The same law that would call for you not to forsake the fellowship of the saints, which you blatantly reject.

Charles Spurgeon - "[The saint] is not under the law as a curse and condemnation, but he is in it, and he delights to be in it as his rule of life; he delights, moreover, to meditate in it, to read it by day, and think upon it by night. He takes a text and carries it with him all day long; and in the night-watches, when sleep forsakes his eyelids, he museth upon the Word of God. In the day of his prosperity he sings psalms out of the Word of God, and in the night of his affliction he comforts himself with promises out of the same book. “The law of the Lord” is the daily bread of the true believer.

Spurgeon himself preached of the necessity of being a member of a church. Just as you reject Spurgeon on the matter of obedience from the heart, so you reject Spurgeon on the matter of church membership.

You are consumed in lawlessness and in will-worship, and idolatry and arrogance. You refuse to believe you are in dire need of accountability in the church, as you think you can "go it alone." You trust in your own personal understanding and interpretation, which is why you err.

 

[livingbygrace]

Why don't you quote the full text? Spurgeon said while we are not under law, we very well are IN the law - utterly consumed by it, delighting in it and meditating on it. The same law that would call for you not to forsake the fellowship of the saints, which you blatantly reject.

Dane. I see your Christianity shining through here. I understand why you are desperate to trip me up, as I am sure everyone else will. By saying I uphold the law by not living under it should tell you(but you don't want it to) that I can hardly be said to much diverge from Spurgeon. You are desperately trying to split hairs. It is sad to see.

And I am fellowshipping with peoiple on this website. And no church that I know of where I live preaches grace anyway, most are afraid to

 

[dane_g87]

You cannot justify your rejection of apostolic commandments by saying you fulfill those commandments online. You do not trust God's ordained ministers - you do not trust God, nor do you obey Him when He calls you into a church body. You are lawless.

(Hebrews 10:24-26) And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins

 

[livingbygrace]

You cannot justify your rejection of apostolic commandments by saying you fulfill those commandments online. You do not trust God's ordained ministers - you do not trust God, nor do you obey Him when He calls you into a church body. You are lawless.

Wow, you really are losing it. Well you believe I wil go to hell then, I guess you must. Personally I will put my faith in Jesus, he will make the decision

 

[dane_g87]

You reject the commandment to join a body of believers that includes elders/pastors, deacons, brothers and sisters in Christ to exhort, sing with, praise with, fellowship with, serve, carry burdens. How on earth can you fulfill the law of Christ like you claim when you never see another brother in person? Do you honestly think you are carrying one's burdens through Christian Chat? The thought of that is just sick. By your own admission you reject the law of Christ, you reject apostolic commandments; you reject the Scriptures that clearly teach that the children of God practice righteousness.

How can you trust in Christ when you've never even joined His body? You are not even a member in His body. You refuse to become one in His body.

 

[dane_g87]

And another thing that makes this all sick is, in an attempt to justify your wickedness, you've tried to twist my words saying I believe we must do all of this in order to be saved. No, my friend - read Spurgeon. He said doing these things is the evidence that you have been saved! And since you have absolutely no evidence, you have every reason to be very afraid there livingby "grace"!

 

[livingbygrace]

You reject the commandment to join a body of believers that includes elders/pastors, deacons, brothers and sisters in Christ to exhort, sing with, praise with, fellowship with, serve, carry burdens. How on earth can you fulfill the law of Christ like you claim when you never see another brother in person? Do you honestly think you are carrying one's burdens through Christian Chat? The thought of that is just sick. By your own admission you reject the law of Christ, you reject apostolic commandments; you reject the Scriptures that clearly teach that the children of God practice righteousness.

Oh Dane. I guess ther thing is I know God loves me and sees me covered in a blanket of love, I know many Christians do not always see likee that.

 

[dane_g87]

The grace of God is not the license to sin and to disregard the laws and commandments of God! The grace of God frees us from the bondage of sin, that we may serve the Lord Jesus Christ and delight in His law.

 

[livingbygrace]

And another thing that makes this all sick is, in an attempt to justify your wickedness, you've tried to twist my words saying I believe we must do all of this in order to be saved. No, my friend - read Spurgeon. He said doing these things is the evidence that you have been saved! And since you have absolutely no evidence, you have every reason to be very afraid there livingby "grace"!

Well I completely agree. Works are the resiult of a sincere salvation. But let us be clear, they are the works the Holy Spirit does in us, not us ourselves. Dane your comments are becoming increasingly juvenile and absurd. Don't you care what others think? And now wild accusations as well I have twisted nothing

 

[dane_g87]

You testify yourself that you want nothing to do with the law, and that you cannot even handle the thought of the law. So much darkness in you indeed, the evidence that you have not a heart of flesh in which the law of God is written! For if the law had been written in your heart, surely you would have delighted in it. But you despise the law, you hate the law, and in so doing you seek to slaughter God off His throne. You desire to serve and worship God your own way...where God has prescribed joining the body of Christ - in person - you have decided to do as you please. Just as Nadab and Abihu were consumed in the fury of God's wrath for attempting to worship Him as they pleased, so you will be consumed in wrath if you refuse to repent from your will worship and lawlessness.

 

[livingbygrace]

The grace of God is not the license to sin and to disregard the laws and commandments of God! The grace of God frees us from the bondage of sin, that we may serve the Lord Jesus Christ and delight in His law.

Well if the grace of God frees us from the bondage of sin why do you continually break all of God's commandments?

 

[livingbygrace]

You testify yourself that you want nothing to do with the law, and that you cannot even handle the thought of the law. So much darkness in you indeed, the evidence that you have not a heart of flesh in which the law of God is written! For if the law had been written in your heart, surely you would have delighted in it. But you despise the law, you hate the law, and in so doing you seek to slaughter God off His throne. You desire to serve and worship God your own way...where God has prescribed joining the body of Christ - in person - you have decided to do as you please. Just as Nadab and Abihu were consumed in the fury of God's wrath for attempting to worship Him as they pleased, so you will be consumed in wrath if you refuse to repent from your will worship and lawlessness.

Dane, get a grip of yourself, please. If this cwas not so sad I would find it amusing

 

[dane_g87]

Truly Coming to Christ involves faith in His sacrifice alone for the grounds of your justification and repentance from all that contradicts the law, nature, and will of God. You have not repented of your sins in full - only in part. You've only picked and chosen what you want to repent from. You do not live a life marked by repentance and faith. Jesus preached the necessity and prescribed the outlines of His living functioning church. You claim you believe, but you have no more belief than a demon. Because if you truly believed in Jesus, you would believe in His words and you would love Him and obey Him. Jesus ordained His church, and you refuse to enter it.