is Smoking a sin?

[dane_g87]

Livingbygrace, if you refuse to serve God with your whole heart, to honor His word in its totality, you will not be able to honor the very Scriptures you claim you understand. You have not repented of your sins; you've trusted in a faulty understanding of a passage in Scripture. Your whole faith is based on this corrupt understanding. You neither affirm the doctrine of Spurgeon nor of Paul the apostle. You refuse to follow the Lord's command in joining His church, and instead you decide you will have your own way of worshiping Him privately, independently, and apart from the true body of Christ. It appears you have also done this that you may continue on in your sins unchecked which you have no regard of repenting from. You have shown that you have no intention of honoring the principle that Paul declared "he would not be enslaved by anything." You are also enslaved to your self-sufficiency and self-dependency. You are trusting in your own understanding, in your own way, and your own religion. There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is death. You believe you are capable of living the Christian life all on your own apart from the accountability of the church and elders. You neither support the elders and ministers of the church, nor do you support evangelistic efforts or missions. You are not an example at all to be followed by younger and less mature Christians, as your spiritual maturity is infantile. I hereby end my discussion with you on this matter, and I will now pray that the Lord may be gracious to you. I will leave you with this final warning, that you beware of teaching your corrupt theology on these boards or anywhere else, because Scripture declares that teachers will undergo a stricter condemnation.

 

[livingbygrace]

Livingbygrace, if you refuse to serve God with your whole heart, to honor His word in its totality, you will not be able to honor the very Scriptures you claim you understand. You have not repented of your sins; you've trusted in a faulty understanding of a passage in Scripture. Your whole faith is based on this corrupt understanding. You neither affirm the doctrine of Spurgeon nor of Paul the apostle. You refuse to follow the Lord's command in joining His church, and instead you decide you will have your own way of worshiping Him privately, independently, and apart from the true body of Christ. It appears you have also done this that you may continue on in your sins unchecked which you have no regard of repenting from. You love your smoking, and you have no intention of honoring the principle that Paul declared "he would not be enslaved by anything." You are also enslaved to your self-sufficiency and self-dependency. You are trusting in your own understanding, in your own way, and your own religion. There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is death. You believe you are capable of living the Christian life all on your own apart from the accountability of the church and elders. You neither support the elders and ministers of the church, nor do you support evangelistic efforts or missions. You are not an example at all to be followed by younger and less mature Christians, as your spiritual maturity is infantile. I hereby end my discussion with you on this matter, and I will now pray that the Lord may be gracious to you. I will leave you with this final warning, that you beware of teaching your corrupt theology on these boards or anywhere else, because Scripture declares that teachers will undergo a stricter condemnation.

Well thank you. You have just reinforced my opinion that church may be a dangerous place for me to go. You preach and you have wrong theology that disagrees with Spurgeon one of the founders of your church I believe. You are also enslaved by the law and break all of the commandments of God.(your words not mine)

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones comes to mind.

 

[dane_g87]

It has been laid upon my heart to share these final words with you before I go. I want to apologize as I confess during this discussion I have not properly conducted myself as I ought; I have acted at times out of anger and frustration. I openly rebuked you to my own shame, as the apostle Paul instructed Timothy not to rebuke older men but to exhort them as fathers. Therefore I confess my sin to you now of having dishonored you as being elder to myself. One thing is certain is that I am confident that you err in your theology and your position with Spurgeon; however I have at times here went around the wrong way in dealing with you in regard to these issues. If I have done anything to cause you to grow angry with me, I pray that you will forgive me and not let the sun go down on your wrath, because I have not held onto any anger towards you. I want to say that I love you and I regard your soul as precious, and I do not wish any evil or judgment to come upon you, but that I would that you receive the mercy and grace of God to the glory of His great name. I am sorry for having taken up your time which could have been better spent elsewhere. God bless.

 

[livingbygrace]

It has been laid upon my heart to share these final words with you before I go. I want to apologize as I confess during this discussion I have not properly conducted myself as I ought; I have acted at times out of anger and frustration. I openly rebuked you to my own shame, as the apostle Paul instructed Timothy not to rebuke older men but to exhort them as fathers. Therefore I confess my sin to you now of having dishonored you as being elder to myself. One thing is certain is that I am confident that you err in your theology and your position with Spurgeon; however I have at times here went around the wrong way in dealing with you in regard to these issues. If I have done anything to cause you to grow angry with me, I pray that you will forgive me and not let the sun go down on your wrath, because I have not held onto any anger towards you. I want to say that I love you and I regard your soul as precious, and I do not wish any evil or judgment to come upon you, but that I would that you receive the mercy and grace of God to the glory of His great name. I am sorry for having taken up your time which could have been better spent elsewhere. God bless.

Thank you for those words. I accept your apology and I am sorry if I have spoken in anyway that you may find offensive. I do still believe you err in your theology, but I sincerely will pray for you. I am heartened by your post where Spurgeon said we are not under law for condemnation. This gives me great peace to know that one of my core beliefs in scripture is shared by a man such as he.
I wish you all the best in your Christian walk, and in your search of truth in the scriptures. I have no animosity tro you whatsoever, I can assure you of that, and I will pray fgor you, God Bless

 

[QuestionTime]

Questiontime, you are walking around like a Pharisee, thinking you can see when as yet you are blind. You are treading on dangerous ground with your arrogance and faulty theology. You think you have it all but you are lacking. You've made an idol out of John Wesley. John Wesley is more important, more quoted, and more appealed to than Scripture is. Your measuring rod by which you judge things is John Wesley. You've tried comparing me to John Wesley, his writings, and the Moravians. You are to only judge things by Scripture alone. Be warned, Quest. No idolater will enter the kingdom of Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

1 John 4:18 (King James Version)
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

I'm ready to end this debate also because the debate has already been won. You fear death, correct? No saint should fear death, but you do, don't you? You have a fair summer religion too, you can walk right and talk right when you face no trouble, but let death look you in the face and you run away just like the 11 disciples ran from Jesus! Admit the truth.

You do not have a "love unfeigned." I don't see that kind of love in you. The Bible says we move from faith to faith. I'm afraid you haven't quite moved to the faith that I have. I used to talk just like you. I walked around condemning everyone and telling them the Bible says they are required to do A,B and C or they are going to burn. You do absolutely the same thing. Your words, your theology are all nearly identical to mine back in 2006-2007. If I was asked: "Do you believe you have to obey to be Justified," I would answer exactly as you: "No, I am Justified by faith alone." I had not yet come to an end of myself! I had that veil of Moses over my eyes, I couldn't see!

Quest

 

[livingbygrace]

According to Scripture, the true believer:
- Delights in the law of God
- Meditates on the law of God

These quotes I believe are taken form the OT. At that time the law was active. And I ddid not say I believe everything Spurgeon says. I am very impreseed with what he wrote in 'all of Grace' but I believe vit is not neccessary for a Christian to meditate on the law. You told
- does the will of God
- obeys the commandments of God
- practices righteousness
- confesses their sins
- believes in the atonement of Christ for justification alone
- pursues peace and holiness

I have stated all of these; you have rejected that. Clearly I am the one here who is scriptural. The Bible commands us not to forsake the fellowship of the saints, to support and honor the elders, and to bear one another's burdens. You said yourself that you refuse to join a church. In the Bible Paul said he "would not be enslaved by anything" and yet you willfully continue in your enslaved bondage to smoking.

Sorry, but now I am fully awake I feel I must respondf to this

 

[livingbygrace]

According to Scripture, the true believer:
- Delights in the law of God
- Meditates on the law of God

I believe both of these quotes are taken from OT scripture. The law was still active then. I certainly do not believe we have to concentrate on and delight in the law. I was very impressed by what Spurgeon wrotye in All Of Grace. But personally I do not believe we have to focus on and delight as such in the law itself. You said quest had idolatory I think for continuing to quote Weslley, would that not mean you are an idolator too?

- does the will of God

This is the will of God that you believe in the one he has sent

- obeys the commandments of God

This is strange for you to post. You daily break all of God's commandments
- practices righteousness

How do you do this according to the Bible? if you break the law you lay so much emphasis on

- confesses their sins

Who would disagree
- believes in the atonement of Christ for justification alone

No, Christ died for every sin we can ever commit. You have accepted that already.
- pursues peace and holiness
We pursue everything by faith
I have stated all of these; you have rejected that. Clearly I am the one here who is scriptural. The Bible commands us not to forsake the fellowship of the saints, to support and honor the elders, and to bear one another's burdens. You said yourself that you refuse to join a church. In the Bible Paul said he "would not be enslaved by anything" and yet you willfully continue in your enslaved bondage to smoking.

I am sorry but I feel this must be said. We can all (myself included) quote the Bible. The Pharisees did. But the proof is in the results. You have said every day you break all of God's commandments, commandments you stress must be obeyed. You say you have a wicked and selfish heart, commendable to be honest. But I have found to stress law as you do brings exactly the rersults to a life that you have admitted are in yours. This is proof to me your way is wrong. If it was right you would not now be in the position you are

You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

By your own admission you are not free, but enslaved

 

[livingbygrace]

God desires that we trust in His Son, and trusting in His Son also involves trusting in what the Son commanded us. Jesus said, "Why do you call Me, 'Lord' and not do the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) and "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments," (John 14:12).

The issue here is not doing what Jesus wants, it is how to do it. By your own admission you cannot do what Jesus wants. Therefore your way has to be wrong

Jesus said, "If your hand or eye causes you to sin, cut it off or pluck it out; for it is better to go without those into life than your whole body into Hell." - Why would Jesus command this if He could care less about us obeying Him?

As you have admitted your eye has caused you to sin, are you going to pluck it out?
I come back to what you simply fail to understand

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom3:31

If Paul said, "No adulterer, fornicator, thief, homosexual, idolater, extortioner, etc will enter the kingdom of Heaven," (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), why do you say we don't have commandments to obey? Obviously we are to obey the commandments not to do these things, because Paul said those who practice them are hellbound.

I refer you once again to Rom3:31
The issue is how to kive as Jesus would have us live

Why did John say, "Those who do not practice righteousness are children of Satan" (1 John 3)? If practicing righteousness was not important, why did John declare that practicing it was the deciding factor between Christians and non-Christians?

You are on dangerous ground here due to your honesty(which is commendable by the way)

If Jesus declared that those who are lawless, even if they call Him Lord, are condemned, what law was He talking about? And why are those who are lawless condemned?

Dane, please try and understand something. I have never said we should live a lawless life, or disobey willfully Jesus words. The whole difference is. How do we uphold them. But you accuse me of wanting to deliberately flounder Jesu teaching, this is completely wrong. I will repeat again. The issue is how we uphold what Christ taught. Oncve again I refer you to Rom3:31

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law

 

[QuestionTime]

1 John 4:18 (King James Version)
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

I'm ready to end this debate also because the debate has already been won. You fear death, correct? No saint should fear death, but you do, don't you? You have a fair summer religion too, you can walk right and talk right when you face no trouble, but let death look you in the face and you run away just like the 11 disciples ran from Jesus! Admit the truth.

I apologize because I should have worded this differently. I don't apologize for the point I was attempting to make, just the method I used.

You have rejected all of the scriptures I have given without answer.

Quest

 

[livingbygrace]

You err in your doctrine of justification because you know nothing about the doctrine of regeneration.

Spurgeon on regeneration

We trust in Jesus for what we cannot do ourselves. If it were in our power why would we need to look to him? It is ours to believe, it is the Lord's to create us anew. He will not believe for us; neither are we to do the regenerating work for Him. It is enough for us to obey the gracious command. It is for the Lord to work the new birth in us.

This is exactly what I have been saying, and you tell me this is totally false.

But a saving change of heart is the work of the Holy Spirit. This also is most true, and let it be far from us to question it or forget it.

It is certain that no man who believes in Jesus will ever find that the Holy Spirit refuses to work in him. In fact his believing is the proof that the Spirit is already at work in his heart.

We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We foresake sin and trust in Jesus

That is almost word for word what I have said to you, and you have told me my theology is infantile. Now I wouldn't profess to agree with everything Spurgeon says, but I find it strange that youb have such little regard for Spurgeons theology unless it agrees with your natural thinking

I am not a Baptist so am not obligated to following all Spurgeon says, but are you not?

 

[QuestionTime]

That is almost word for word what I have said to you, and you have told me my theology is infantile. Now I wouldn't profess to agree with everything Spurgeon says, but I find it strange that youb have such little regard for Spurgeons theology unless it agrees with your natural thinking\

I think we have to realize also, that Spurgeon - just as all of us - did not experience full salvation until years after his Justification experience. His early writings probably sound just like Dane's writings. What is important to realize is that Spurgeon had the exact same experience of coming to a Living Faith in Christ that Wesley had. He may have worded it differently, but he definitely had the same experience. Only his writings from that point forward - whenever his full salvation date was - ought to be taken word for word.

Quest

 

[livingbygrace]

I think we have to realize also, that Spurgeon - just as all of us - did not experience full salvation until years after his Justification experience. His early writings probably sound just like Dane's writings. What is important to realize is that Spurgeon had the exact same experience of coming to a Living Faith in Christ that Wesley had. He may have worded it differently, but he definitely had the same experience. Only his writings from that point forward - whenever his full salvation date was - ought to be taken word for word.

Quest

These are good points

I think often, especially in our early Christian walk we tend to focus on the commandments themselves, the teachings on how we as Christians should live our lives. It is easy to fall into the trap of fixating on what is required, and failing to see the way it is to be achieved.

Paul's core message was on how to live the Christian life I believe. He said that by dying to the law he was able to live for Christ. This is often overlooked in our zealousness to please God. But I don't believe it is what we as such can do, but what Christ can do in us if we let him. I like Gal5:22


But the fruit of the Spirit is, love, joy peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control, against such things there is no law.

Paul said, if we follow after the Spirit, we are not under law, I believe this shows us why

Paul found that when he focused on obediance according to law he became a worse sinner, but by dying to what had bound him(the law) and trusting Christ he became victorious.

The core of this to me is understanding that only by dying to the law can we actually uphold it. This was Paul's message. To take our eyes off what is required, realising we ourselves are incapable of achieving this, and trusting ourselves to the one who can achieve it in the power of the Holy Spirit

It is one of the most frustrating things by see. By people actually focusing(with good intentions) on striving to obey the good laws of God, in effect the opposite of what they desire becomers the reality. As Paul said.

The law can only make us concious of our sin.

 

[livingbygrace]

Spurgeon taught, as the Scriptures teach, that those whom God saves are given a new nature by which they are driven to obey Him. Obedience is not the cause for salvation but the evidence. I strive to obey God not in order to be saved or accepted by God, but because He has already accepted and saved me. I obey not because I want to be accepted by God, I obey because I myself hunger and thirst for righteousness. Even though I strive for righteousness, I am unrighteous. It is only in Christ can I be seen as righteous in God's eyes. My striving for righteousness doesn't change that. Though I strive for and love the commandments, I fail at keeping them perfectly as God requires. My faith rests not in myself in keeping them perfectly, but in Christ who kept them perfectly.

Unless you choose to reply to my points this will be my final comment on this subject. Your belief is that we are saved by faith but then we strive to follow the law. That is accurate, I am sure. You berate me and tell me that faith alone and not being under law is for the act of becoming a Christian, after this we strive to uphold the good laws of God. I refer you to people whom Paul was speaking to who were already Christians. Therefore he was not speaking in relation to the act of being saved.

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After begining witrh the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? Does God give you His Spirit and work miracles among you because you observer the law or because you believe what you heard?

Consider Abraham: He believed God and it was credited toi him as righteousness. Understand this that those who believe are children of Abraham. The scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and announced the Gospel in advance to Abraham. All nations will be blessed through you. So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham the man of faith.
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse; for it is written. Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law. Clearly no-one is justified before God by the law because, the righteous will live by faith.
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary. The man who does these things will live by them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. Gal3:1-13

Notice it says the righteous will live by faith, not law. It does not say we become a Christian by faith, then return to focus on law.

Well then, what was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgression until the seed to whom the promise refered had come. Gal3:19

Before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ. Now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Gal3:23&24



Paul was talking to Christian converts. He was not discussing the act of becoming saved, but how we must live the Chrtistian life. His concern was, that the Galatian church had become Christians by faith, but then returned to the law. The tragedy is, this is how many Christians today spend their lives.
In my opinion it is not for us to search and fixate on theologians and there often differing comments. But instead to go by the plain, and emphatic words of the greatest preacher of grace this world has ever seen.

As Paul explained the Abrahamic covenant of a righteousness by faith was not cancelled when the law was given. Therefore the law itself was not the basis for anyones Christianity, but rather in effect for how someone committed to God must live their life, according to that law. As some would say striving to obey that law. I repeat the law was not there for someone to become saved, but for living the life of a committed person to God.

So when Paul says we are now not under law, he means for the committed Christian. We live by faith in Christ and the Spirits power.

Looking at your above comment, although you do not say so specifically to me it suggests you think righteousness can be obtained from striving to obey God's good laws. This is tragic.

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law Christ died for nothing. Gal2:21

I repeat my earlier comments. This is the tragedy of so many Christians today, they are not living in the Gospel preached by Paul. If by God's laws being written on our hearts and minds this means we must strive to follow law, why would Pul have said all he did. I repeat it simply meansd that in our hearts we want to live as God would have us live, and obediance comes through faith in Christ and the Spirits power within us

I hope and pray you will not live in the error of the Galatian church

God Bless

 

[Believer]

1 Corinthians 6v19 & 20.

Do you know that your body is a temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit who lives within you. You are NOT your own.

You were bought with a price.

 

[livingbygrace]

I should have added to this. When I have continually quoted scripture that says we are not under law, and that as Christians we do not strive to follow/obey law, and that for the Christian the law has been sealed up. Isiaih8:16. You have consistently replied that this is only concerning the act of justification/salvation.

This cannot doctinally be true. I repeat, no-one was saved/accepted in the first place by the law, the Abrahamic covenant was not annulled by the law being given. Therefore faith was still credited even then as righteousness. The law was in effect for living and following how God wanted his children to live. Paul stated the law was only until the coming of Christ. Therefore it cannot be in place now for us to strive after to follow as Christians. That was the intention of it in the first place.

After the Abrahamic covenant was made the law was added so that the trespass might increase, but where sin increased grace increased even more. Rom5:20

Trying to follow the law as saved people never decreased sin, it increased it. And so people who strive to follow the law today once saved remain enslaved by sin.

I like the way the living Bible puts it.

Until Christ came we were guarded by the law, kept in protective custody so to speak.

So according to the Bible we do not as Christians strive to follow the law as that was the old way before Christ came. I finish with the verse that is often under used and explains the victory that came about at the cross

Do we then nullify the law(right living) by this faith?(in Jesus) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom3:31

Oh that you would see this Dane. Oh that you would

 

[HolyTriX]

Smoking is a sin. Want proof?

1 John 5:17

"All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."

This means all unrighteousness is sin.

& Now you know. =)

 

[HolyTriX]

Oh & let me make clear the second part of that verse.

All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

This mean some sins will not lead to eternal ****ation..

Like.. there will definetly be many people who have smoked cigarettes who will be in the kingdom of heaven, because smoking is one of those sins that does not lead to death. (By death i mean people who are of the dead/going to hell)

But just because it doesn't lead to death, doesn't mean it's ok. Sin is Sin.

You will be held accountable one day. The goal for a christian is to be Christ like. Be like christ. Christ never smoked. Note that! =0

God bless

 

[QuestionTime]

You know, I used to come into these types of threads and join in these debates - regarding whether this or that is a sin - but I am no longer going to do that.

So far as I am concerned, if someone loves God with all their heart, soul, strength and mind; they are not going to need to ask other people if this, or that thing is sin. Instead, they will have God inside of them leading and directing them. Their hearts will be so consumed with God that they won't be worried about anything in this world anymore.

I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but this is all vanity, this worrying about dos and don'ts. All we need to worry about is loving God supremely. Perhaps a better thread would be: "How can I love God with all my heart?" Rather than: "Is smoking a sin?"

We need to get our eyes off ourselves, we need God to grant a repentance that breaks our hearts and starts the tears pouring, and we need that living faith given to us in a moment.

Quest

 

[AllysonRose]

You know, I used to come into these types of threads and join in these debates - regarding whether this or that is a sin - but I am no longer going to do that.

So far as I am concerned, if someone loves God with all their heart, soul, strength and mind; they are not going to need to ask other people if this, or that thing is sin. Instead, they will have God inside of them leading and directing them. Their hearts will be so consumed with God that they won't be worried about anything in this world anymore.

I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but this is all vanity, this worrying about dos and don'ts. All we need to worry about is loving God supremely. Perhaps a better thread would be: "How can I love God with all my heart?" Rather than: "Is smoking a sin?"

We need to get our eyes off ourselves, we need God to grant a repentance that breaks our hearts and starts the tears pouring, and we need that living faith given to us in a moment.

Quest

Thanks to everyone for helping out i really just needed some answer to tell my friends when they would shove it in my face... best answer i found was to let them go as friends.

but just so u know QuestionTime^^ i wasnt trying to figure out if its a do or dont kinda thing... i just wanted to see if anyone would help me find biblical proff to show my friends who say they are Christians then smoke but its okay now..

the friends who were smoking are either not my friends anymore or they have stopped and im really proud of them

its amazing what God can do.

 

[ShelleBelle76]

You know, I used to come into these types of threads and join in these debates - regarding whether this or that is a sin - but I am no longer going to do that.

So far as I am concerned, if someone loves God with all their heart, soul, strength and mind; they are not going to need to ask other people if this, or that thing is sin. Instead, they will have God inside of them leading and directing them. Their hearts will be so consumed with God that they won't be worried about anything in this world anymore.

I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but this is all vanity, this worrying about dos and don'ts. All we need to worry about is loving God supremely. Perhaps a better thread would be: "How can I love God with all my heart?" Rather than: "Is smoking a sin?"

We need to get our eyes off ourselves, we need God to grant a repentance that breaks our hearts and starts the tears pouring, and we need that living faith given to us in a moment.

Quest

Now that was the most sensible and godly thing I have read in this entire thread.

There is way too much focus on "I am no longer required to do this in order to be saved" and not enough focus on, "What more can I do because I am saved?" No we are no longer under the law for salvation, but as a result of salvation should strive to live righteously. And if you throw the law out because it is no longer "required" it appears you are looking for reasons to excuse unrighteous behavior. We are no longer subject to the law, but how much sweeter is a gift if it is not required?