Again - context is key. Paul was talking about him being disqualified from ministry - not from eternal life. That is anti-the gospel of Christ. This is how works based religions are formed.
When did the Law expire?
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Again - context is key. Paul was talking about him being disqualified from ministry - not from eternal life. That is anti-the gospel of Christ. This is how works based religions are formed.
thank you! good one!
[h=1] Acts 24:16English Standard Version (ESV)
[/h] [SUP]16 [/SUP]So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward both God and man.
Well that is the race we are in - to keep trusting Him until the end instead of going back to trusting in what the world tells us we must do to be safe and secure.
As to your last question, I almost can't believe you are asking me it again!
I would think you would be sick of hearing me answer it by now but I will answer again!
When I understood what murder was, and where murder originated from, I tried very, very hard to stop murdering. I wanted to be good. I was sick with thirsting for righteousness in my heart. I tried and tried, but always someone would come along and treat me badly or hatefully use me or give me less respect than they would their dog, and I would resent and murder and plot revenge and how I would get even and pay them for what they'd done to me. And if I caught myself in what I was truly doing, I would determine that I was just going to forgive them because that's what my Lord commands, but two minutes later, or a day later, I was fuming once again over how they'd treated me. I could NOT STOP MURDERING.
So, first I thought I had always kept the law to not murder.
Then I saw that I hadn't and that I was a SERIAL murderer.
Then I tried very hard to stop murdering.
I always failed at some point.
Then I gave up trying after quite a few years and said He would have to do something if I was ever going to be good.
Soon after, I began to have great victories.
So would you say that I think following the law kept me from sinning?
Or would you say that I saw the law was so exacting and holy and I was so evil that I could never keep it?
When I tried hard, I couldn't stop sinning, no matter what.
When I gave up and trusted Him (abided), I had great victories.
And now that I know how to gain victory over myself, the world and the devil, (by trusting (abiding) in Him), I love the holiness of His law even more and I want Him to teach me His precepts because I delight in them. I want to follow them in true righteousness in my inner man, my heart, my mind. They are a delight to me. His word is a lamp to my feet. I love His precepts. They are spiritual and good and are a delight to me because He teaches me His precepts in spirit and truth. If it is wrong that I love His law and delight in it, then He will have to show me because I can't help but love it.
I guess I should copy this and keep it for the next time you ask me this question again, as you often do.
So "the prize" is the ministry, not eternal life? So he is "competing" to be in the ministry not for eternal life? Why does he then "But I discipline my body and keep it under control," and say: "They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable"
1 Corinthians 9
24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable. 26So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
By "imperishable" he is not talking about eternal life?..............?.....?.?.????
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Sorry, but you cannot “win" salvation. You can only receive it freely as the free gift of God in Christ that it is…….…or not.
It is a parable...
So if it not a parable, then he must be preaaching about athletic competitions then? What athletic competition does one recieve a "imperishable" crown?
1 Corinthians 9
24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25Every athlete exercises self-control in all things.They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable. 26So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
By "imperishable" he is not talking about eternal life?
And why no reply to these verses?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Salvation is not a reward based system (see romans 4, Abraham was found by faith not works) so you can not use those passages to describe the salvation process
We earn rewards after we are saved, Not to get saved.
Nope....Paul is talking about an imperishable crown that stems from what the Lord has done through him in his ministry to others.
The "competing" aspect is just Paul giving an allegory to one who participates in sports - he competes to win. The same for Paul in his ministry to others.
Salvation which is all based on righteousness is from the Lord Jesus Christ and it is all by grace through faith. - not through a works-based religion.
Romans 11:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Salvation is the "gift" of God - not of works.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
I encourage you to really hear the gospel of the grace of God that is in Christ - it will change your life forever if you believe and receive it. NO more striving in works - Christ has qualified you. Col. 1:12 ( we do good works but it will be from His live in us manifesting to others and bringing glory to God )
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FreeNChrist
Guest
We already covered this. Yes, it is a parable. No, it is not a parable about salvation. Because we know that salvation is not something that can be won as a prize.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well that is the race we are in - to keep trusting Him until the end instead of going back to trusting in what the world tells us we must do to be safe and secure.
As to your last question, I almost can't believe you are asking me it again!
I would think you would be sick of hearing me answer it by now but I will answer again!
When I understood what murder was, and where murder originated from, I tried very, very hard to stop murdering. I wanted to be good. I was sick with thirsting for righteousness in my heart. I tried and tried, but always someone would come along and treat me badly or hatefully use me or give me less respect than they would their dog, and I would resent and murder and plot revenge and how I would get even and pay them for what they'd done to me. And if I caught myself in what I was truly doing, I would determine that I was just going to forgive them because that's what my Lord commands, but two minutes later, or a day later, I was fuming once again over how they'd treated me. I could NOT STOP MURDERING.
So, first I thought I had always kept the law to not murder.
Then I saw that I hadn't and that I was a SERIAL murderer.
Then I tried very hard to stop murdering.
I always failed at some point.
Then I gave up trying after quite a few years and said He would have to do something if I was ever going to be good.
Soon after, I began to have great victories.
So would you say that I think following the law kept me from sinning?
Or would you say that I saw the law was so exacting and holy and I was so evil that I could never keep it?
When I tried hard, I couldn't stop sinning, no matter what.
When I gave up and trusted Him (abided), I had great victories.
And now that I know how to gain victory over myself, the world and the devil, (by trusting (abiding) in Him), I love the holiness of His law even more and I want Him to teach me His precepts because I delight in them. I want to follow them in true righteousness in my inner man, my heart, my mind. They are a delight to me. His word is a lamp to my feet. I love His precepts. They are spiritual and good and are a delight to me because He teaches me His precepts in spirit and truth. If it is wrong that I love His law and delight in it, then He will have to show me because I can't help but love it.
I guess I should copy this and keep it for the next time you ask me this question again, as you often do.
I am going to be honest. I think the reason I keep asking, is I can not gleem by what you wrote what you really believe, You seem to be going both ways.
I am not saying this to be mean, Just from what I see..
The law which says do not murder. Will never stop a person from commiting murder. It may help a person not commit the physical act. it may not But the spiritual act, or the thought of doing the deed, was still broken.
it is like the speed limit, It says do 55 If I am not tempted to break it, Then I do not need to be told it.. But if I am tempted to break it, and desire to, no speed limit sign will stop me from playing sammy hagar.. "I can't drive 55"
This the sign is there to prove me guilty if I break it, But it will never stop me from doing what I want to do.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. Salvation is not a prize, a reward, or something one can earn.
2. if you can save yourself. the cross is meaningless. And Christ died for no reason.
3. works (earning reward) and grace (freely given, but not earned) are apposed to each other. Paul said it is one or the other, but never both.
so no. Paul did not say he could lose salvation, He said he could lose reward.
Im just trying to understand your view point
So you are saying the "imperishable crown" is reward?
What reward exactly?
Question for FreeNChrist and eternally-gratefull
anyone else can answer too.
Is it possible to be blotted out of the Book of Life?
Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"
Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."
Exodus 32:31-33, "And Mosheh returned to יהוה and said, “Oh, these people have sinned a great sin, and have made for themselves a mighty one of gold! And now, if You would forgive their sin, but if not, please blot me out of Your book which You have written. And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I blot him out of My book."
anyone else can answer too.
Is it possible to be blotted out of the Book of Life?
Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"
Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."
Exodus 32:31-33, "And Mosheh returned to יהוה and said, “Oh, these people have sinned a great sin, and have made for themselves a mighty one of gold! And now, if You would forgive their sin, but if not, please blot me out of Your book which You have written. And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I blot him out of My book."
Hmmm...well, I think I have to maybe just give up then, because I've answered the question so many times in different threads and each time in different words and I'm all worded out on it.
If you can't glean from hearing my story so many times whether I am stuck in trying to be good by my own effort or not, I literally can't think of another way to explain how He has led me or my experience or what He's taught me. I'm not mad, I'm not even frustrated. A little perplexed maybe.
Everyone is in God's book to begin with. Christ died for the whole world and He took all their sins upon Himself on the cross. Those that reject Christ are blotted out of the book of Life.
The book of Life is really another way of saying that they are either in Christ or not. Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the book of Life.
He alone is our salvation. For we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:3
The book of Life is really another way of saying that they are either in Christ or not. Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the book of Life.
He alone is our salvation. For we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:3
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Hmmm...well, I think I have to maybe just give up then, because I've answered the question so many times in different threads and each time in different words and I'm all worded out on it.
Unless I am misunderstanding you, what you describe is common to all. We all sin in thought, not only in deed. If you think that will ever totally go away, I think you will forever be disappointed. Because the flesh is still with us. For myself, it drives me to my knees in recognition of my continuing need for Jesus as my only hope. Cause without Him, I am a dead duck.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Well we were talking about a very similar principle, and I post those few verses and you two will not speak on them... It is in the word, and that is the purpose of the BDF. Odd how you even cut the verses out of the quote...
Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"
Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."
Exodus 32:31-33, "And Mosheh returned to יהוה and said, “Oh, these people have sinned a great sin, and have made for themselves a mighty one of gold! And now, if You would forgive their sin, but if not, please blot me out of Your book which You have written. And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I blot him out of My book."
T
TheSearcherMan
Guest
It seems a quite a few verses are ignored in this thread.
It's been over 2000 years, and then there is John 4:48. Under those circumstances, is the lack of unity unreasonable?
It's been over 2000 years, and then there is John 4:48. Under those circumstances, is the lack of unity unreasonable?
True. But I think we all want to worship the Most High in unity. and that causes us to disagree more, because we are try to explain our views, and sometimies there will be no agreement. May Yahshua return sooner than later so He may show us the pure way.
Revelation 21:4-8 And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful.And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone--which is the second death."