Woman Pastor Explains Her Abortion

[Elizabeth619]

Exactly right sister. In my short time here I've noticed a pattern of a couple people becoming internet warriors to anyone who disagrees with them civilly. Perhaps it's pride... perhaps it's miscommunication... regardless, we all accept Christ as our Savior and because of that we are brothers and sisters. As brothers and sisters, we shouldn't have a problem agreeing to disagree civilly.

It's more of people want to get the last word in so they think they win. In other words.... pride. So you're right.

 

[PinkDiamond]

I have to defend PennEd here. In the two months I have been a member, I've noticed he remains very civil in the BDF forum. There are many controversies and heated debates regularly in that forum. He is not a member that goes on the offensive. This thread has been exceptionally provoking though. I know where he is coming from. This is the first time I've felt my buttons get pushed too, so to speak. I had no issue with any of the comments defending the woman until the point was made that God may have told her to have the abortion. It is so disheartening to read comments like this. To make God the villain and responsible for murder is so offensive. I feel some indignation, to be honest, that Christians would attribute evil to the nature and character of God. We are so quick as humans to defend ourselves, each other and forget about God. Who cares about the feelings and reputation of God? Apparently not even all Christians do.

The God that I know and have a relationship with is not some severe capricious Zeus whose ways cannot be understood by man. Even in his justice and execution of judgement and punishment he is loving. The biggest mistake Christians make is to think that we can't understand God. We can and we have a tool called Scripture to illuminate his reasons for his dealings with man. If people truly understood the nature and character of God and what actually constitutes sin, they would not make such foolish assumptions of the will of God. I shudder to read comments like some that were posted in this thread. I don't really care that this is an Internet forum. It doesn't make the assassination of God's character any easier to stomach. At the end of the day, all I can say is let God be true and every man a liar. Maybe if Christians stopped looking for every excuse and loophole to justify sin and cared more about God, debates like this would cease to exist.

 

[Smoke]

I had no issue with any of the comments defending the woman until the point was made that God may have told her to have the abortion. It is so disheartening to read comments like this. To make God the villain and responsible for murder is so offensive.

I'm not saying God DID tell the woman have the abortion, but in the event that He did, it wouldn't make God the villain.

I'm one of a handful of Christian doctors that I work with. Most of them are atheist or agnostic. They are sort of doing what you're doing by saying because God has ordered the killing of children and infants in the bible, that He is a big bully (villain). No, God has his reasons for why he commands His children the way we do. His ways aren't our ways, nor his thoughts our thoughts. God will never be a villain in my eyes... He is perfect... it is our understand of His will that is imperfect. I'm not immune to misunderstanding his word... I freely admit that. We have to be able to honestly admit we may not always have it right...

We can't put God in a box... The Jews put Jesus in a box... they didn't think the actual Messiah would do/say/think the way our Savior Jesus Christ did while He walked this earth as a mortal man.

 

[Utah]

I never said he was, only that he HAS biblically, and that I don't know what He told the woman pastor.


Of course it's not... but stating God "couldn't" or "wouldn't" when he already has in the past IS putting God in a box. Don't do it.

I've only ever said the blood of Jesus Christ covers her sin if she is a true believer and she did in fact sin out of ignorance.
I don't doubt you'd presume to know my political standings even though you're ignorant of my personal beliefs. You've already took away the pastors christianhood without knowing all the facts. You've already assumed I was an abortion apologist when I stated Christ's atonement covers our sins that we make in error. What you think of me is of little importance when you show a history of verbally attacking people who differ from you in this thread. You can be an internet warrior and talk tough, but it's not going to make your beliefs better or holier than mine. We accept the same Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior...

Smoke, I assure you my toughness reaches far beyond the scope and realm of internet anonymity. What you allude to as bullying in reality is a fierceness to defend the weak in the name of righteousness. Believe me, I walk the walk in the flesh same as on line. I never crossed a man that didn't deserve it, but stepped up when need be. And defending children in and out of the womb is most certainly need be.

I welcome and respect differing views provided those views don't compromise the sanctity of life, love and grace, though my personality often lacks the gentleness that love should be afforded.

 

[Utah]

I have zero reservations stating my opinion in black and white concerning this woman's Christianity. I don't have a negative opinion of her for having the abortion. She could be forgiven for that. I absolutely think her stance on abortion and political advocacy for abortion is shameful and as such shows she has zero regard for her own testimony, no respect for God, and has made a mockery out of her calling. She is encouraging and justifying sin. I would not want to be in her shoes when she has to answer to God for how she used her position within the church to advance his kingdom. Make no mistake the Scripture is clear that ministers are held to a higher standard than others and will be held accountable for how they led the flock. To encourage sin as a minister will not be deemed a trivial matter. It is up to God whether she has true salvation, but she will have to answer for this compromising stand she publicly took

And, make no mistake the rest of us will have to answer for our compromise as well. If we make a habit of defending sin and justifying sin with zero regard for scripture or the feelings of God on these issues, we will have much to feel shame and sorrow for. Attributing murder to the character of God is so offensive. This woman never even claimed to have been told by God to have an abortion. Even her mind didn't go there.

I can't give Pink a rep. Someone give her a rep!!!

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

I can't give Pink a rep. Someone give her a rep!!!

I'll give her one for you.

 

[Utah]

It's more of people want to get the last word in so they think they win. In other words.... pride. So you're right.

If being called prideful is what it takes to defend life then call me prideful. Call me anything for that matter; I'll even help with some of those censored words we can't say on CC.

 

[Utah]

I'll give her one for you.

You're the best! Love you, my dear sister.

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

You're the best! Love you, my dear sister.

I love you too!

 

[oldethennew]

my thinking is that when Jesus calls us we have to answer for ourselves to HIM and no one else...

I can't imagine her shoes and thank Yeshua that I never have had to, but oh so many have...
my prayer is that they did receive Holy communication from their Heavenly Father and proceeded
with the conviction that He placed upon them, and that they did not take to heart the judgments of
the world or the judgments
of the world's christians...

For the peace of God, which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through
Christ Jesus, our Lord'...

Great Peace which Love Thy Law, and nothing shall offend them'...

 

[laura_charlotte]

Glad it reached you, hope the message about new life reaches the wider audience too, the value of this issue can't be underestimated. All glory goes to Our Father.

 

[Socreta93]

Let me end this by saying what I always say. God knows her heart, she will be judged like all of us will be judged. She as a pastor should know this better than anyone. While it's easy to to lay blame, and oh is it easy and to judge, again God knows her heart and she will give an account to everything she has done. No I don't support what she did but I also believe in repentance whenever that may occur. As Christians we should not cast judgement, but offer encouragement and wisdom to those that need it.

 

[PennEd]

You're the best! Love you, my dear sister.

I have to say, the maturity and love shown by Alani, not only in this thread, but in virtually every post I've ever seen from her, is something I pray one day to attain. And Utah would be at the top of the list of brothers I'd like to have at my side in a pinch, and to witness to the world.

As much as I try and avoid these types of threads, knowing that I'm not mature enough yet to recognize that other people are just as broken as I am, I still get tangled up in them.

I'm sorry Smoke for any harsh words toward you. May the Lord bless you and your family.

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

I have to say, the maturity and love shown by Alani, not only in this thread, but in virtually every post I've ever seen from her, is something I pray one day to attain. And Utah would be at the top of the list of brothers I'd like to have at my side in a pinch, and to witness to the world.

As much as I try and avoid these types of threads, knowing that I'm not mature enough yet to recognize that other people are just as broken as I am, I still get tangled up in them.

I'm sorry Smoke for any harsh words toward you. May the Lord bless you and your family.

I'm humbled almost to tears reading this (happy tears, of course), and I don't cry easy.

It takes humility to apologize, so if that's any indication of maturity and love (and I'm sure it is), you've exhibited some yourself.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The media has good things to say about Pastor Butler; she took over from pastor Coffin, received degrees from Baylor and Wesley and ...

A mother of three children ages 16, 17 and 20, Butler went through a painful divorce while at Calvary and wrote bluntly about her own challenges and doubts earlier in her tenure. Tension had risen so high at the church that Butler hired a professional coach to help.


The coach first asked her about her own relationship with God.

“The question hit hard and deep,” Butler wrote last January in her biweekly column for ABP News/Herald, an independent news service of the Associated Baptist Press. “I immediately responded: ‘I don’t think I believe in God anymore.’ ”

The coach replied: “Don’t ever say that again. You’re the pastor, and that kind of comment is not appropriate in church.”

“I heard his message loud and clear: Church should never be a place where you ask questions, and it should certainly never be a place where you wonder out loud if God even exists,” she wrote.

“After that, I fired him.”

More on pastor Amy
...https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...0c1482-eeab-11e3-b84b-3393a45b80f1_story.html

This doesn't make any sense to me. How can you meet God and receive your baptism with the Holy Spirit, and eat meals together and commune with Him and then have anything at all ever make you think He doesn't exist? I could understand getting mad at Him or any number of things, but wouldn't it be impossible to actually meet Him and then begin to believe He didn't exist? The only way this could ever make any sense to me was if she never met the Holy Spirit in the first place...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Jonah was not willing to go tell a sinful nation that what they were doing was sinful in the eyes of God and that they needed to repent from their sin. If they repented God would spare them. Jonah did not like this because he thought they were undeserving of a new start. While I and others on here are saying that abortion is a sin. We are not saying that those who commit abortion should be robbed of the opportunity to repent and be saved. We are doing exactly what Jonah did not want to do.

I never considered that as Jonah's reason...I got the sense that he was afraid, for some reason, that they would repent and then he would be viewed as a false prophet because his words didn't come to pass. Like he was more concerned with his reputation as a prophet than about perishing people. Interesting to see what someone else did though. How did you come to that conclusion? I probably missed something you saw.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree that we have a responsibility. One thing to consider: history has a way of condemning our apathy. Subsequent generations may be educated on the rampant atrocity of abortion that occurred within the US and Canada. There are going to be a lot of Christians that have a guilt for never taking a stand against the genocide of the unborn.

Christians looked stupid when they turned a blind eye to slavery in the US ( in some cases, many ministers in the south supported slavery from their pulpits. They twisted scriptures to support slavery). Many Christians in Nazi Germany supported Hitler and didn't do anything to help the Jews ( Many did however and risked their lives to do so). We always run the risk of looking "stupid" when we take a stand and contradict the social norm of our day. I don't condemn this woman for being faced with a horrible decision and choosing abortion. I don't agree with that choice, but I can feel compassion for her. However, once she took a public stand and used her position of authority within the church to justify abortion, she became no different than the ministers that justified slavery during the 1800's. She chose to make her abortion public to justify abortion now that the issue of abortion is under scrutiny once more and took a political stance. She is among those who are trying to keep Roe vs Wade on the books. Christians have every right to find her defence of abortion reprehensible. We can worry about looking stupid to society or we can do what is right.

This is true. Having the discussion is not the problem I see in this thread. The problem I see is defending God, or our beliefs ,and thinking that we are accomplishing anything if we stop walking in the Spirit and in love as we have the conversation. There's been really bad behavior in here that is very dishonoring to our Lord. It's great blindness to worry about this woman and what she's done if you are blind to your own need to repent for how you're behaving and speaking. That's the blind trying to lead the blind. Will you pat yourselves on the back now?

 

[Elizabeth619]

If being called prideful is what it takes to defend life then call me prideful. Call me anything for that matter; I'll even help with some of those censored words we can't say on CC.

Eh, some are prideful. Some are just right.
love ya

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Exactly right sister. In my short time here I've noticed a pattern of a couple people becoming internet warriors to anyone who disagrees with them civilly. Perhaps it's pride... perhaps it's miscommunication... regardless, we all accept Christ as our Savior and because of that we are brothers and sisters. As brothers and sisters, we shouldn't have a problem agreeing to disagree civilly.

Or perhaps its the fact that this is a Christian forum,where we discuss the word of God, and when people who come in to approve of sin and shame other Christians for being against sin,it causes some people to become angry, because they are intentionally working to cause division and confusion, and are leading others away from the word of God in order to find approval with the world.

I mean, weve already seen posts that said "this is why people hate Christians", as if we should stop speaking out against doing wrong in order to be friends with the world, which is absolutely not biblical. Even as far as someone saying that because of those who stand by the word of God, Christianity will "disappear forever". Im sure I dont need to explain why this is un-biblical.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Let me end this by saying what I always say. God knows her heart, she will be judged like all of us will be judged. She as a pastor should know this better than anyone. While it's easy to to lay blame, and oh is it easy and to judge, again God knows her heart and she will give an account to everything she has done. No I don't support what she did but I also believe in repentance whenever that may occur. As Christians we should not cast judgement, but offer encouragement and wisdom to those that need it.

Im not sure that anyone here has actually cast judgment on her at all, but have only said that she is wrong and is not speaking from the word of God.

As for Christians and judgment-

"Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." (Prov 31:9)
Jesus commended Simon, "Thou hast rightly judged." (Luke 7:43)
"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (1 Cor 2:15)
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2)
"Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Cor 6:3)

If we are to never make any judgments ever, how do we know who to follow? This woman claims to teach the word of God, and also advocates sin. So yes, we should judge whether or not shes truly speaking the word of God.