How was the Covenant changed between the "Old" and "New" ?

[garee]

Hebrew 11:6, "For without the faith it is impossible to please Him; for he who comes to Yahweh must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Since we are talking about a one faith, that does the work, as without it is impossible to please Him.

Without whose faith?

He is the rewarded, the one that pays the wages according to his work on the cross as a gift of His grace he freely gives towards us .

Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "

Whose faith did they not share, in the mutual faith of Christ, the faith of God which all the saints share?.

Heb 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey?So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Yes His rest of the same one faith, His.

Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,Eph 4:3

 

[Grace777x70]

If "Jesus" is the Law of Moses then we have died to "Jesus", been released from "Jesus" and are not under "Jesus" according to the apostle Paul.

Then we would have to re-write this verse.

John 1:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jesus is NOT the Law of Moses. Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and thus fulfilled all righteousness for us.

The Law of Moses is a manifestation of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were never meant to eat from that tree. We were meant to eat from the tree of life which is Christ Himself.

The Law of Moses did it's job and brought us to Jesus Himself for life and living. We can trust His life that is in us by the Holy Spirit for life and living now

The whole Christian life is built upon faith in Christ Himself.

The Law of Moses is not of faith. The law is a product of man "doing" to get the blessing and favor of God. We live now as Christians by what Christ has done "by grace through faith."

 

[wanderer6059]

thats not correct usage of the word its not about the points but the way the word was used.
chadash: new

Ezekiel 36:26
HEB: לָכֶם֙ לֵ֣ב חָדָ֔שׁ וְר֥וּחַ חֲדָשָׁ֖ה
NAS: Moreover, I will give you a new heart
KJV: A new heart also will I give
INT: will give heart A new spirit A new
Ezekiel 36:26
HEB: חָדָ֔שׁ וְר֥וּחַ חֲדָשָׁ֖ה אֶתֵּ֣ן בְּקִרְבְּכֶ֑ם
NAS: heart and put a new spirit within
KJV: also will I give you, and a new spirit
INT: A new spirit A new and put within

Original Word: חָדָשׁ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dawsh')
Short Definition: new (used 53 times in the OT) (used in Ezik)


Original Word: חָדַשׁ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dash')
Short Definition: renew (used 10 times in the OT) (never used in Ezik)



this is the word used for New in the NT

Transliteration: kainos
Phonetic Spelling: (kahee-nos')
Short Definition: fresh, new
Definition: fresh, new, unused, novel.

Luke 22:20 Adj-NFS
GRK: ποτήριον ἡ καινὴ διαθήκη ἐν
NAS: which is poured out for you is the new covenant
KJV: This cup [is] the new testament in
INT: cup [is] the new covenant in

kainos: new, fresh​

​

​

Original Word: καινός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kainos
Phonetic Spelling: (kahee-nos')
Short Definition: fresh, new
Definition: fresh, new, unused, novel.

diathéké: testament, will, covenant​

​

​

Original Word: διαθήκη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: diathéké
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ath-ay'-kay)
Short Definition: a covenant, will, testament
Definition: [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](a) a covenant between two parties, (b) (the ordinary, everyday sense [found a countless number of times in papyri]) a will, testament.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]hey whats up you still haven't responded to my post on the other thread here they are again...[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the old covenant also was not the law, but the law governed those in the old covenant.[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

thats not correct usage of the word its not about the points but the way the word was used.
chadash: new

Ezekiel 36:26
HEB: לָכֶם֙ לֵ֣ב חָדָ֔שׁ וְר֥וּחַ חֲדָשָׁ֖ה
NAS: Moreover, I will give you a new heart
KJV: A new heart also will I give
INT: will give heart A new spirit A new
Ezekiel 36:26
HEB: חָדָ֔שׁ וְר֥וּחַ חֲדָשָׁ֖ה אֶתֵּ֣ן בְּקִרְבְּכֶ֑ם
NAS: heart and put a new spirit within
KJV: also will I give you, and a new spirit
INT: A new spirit A new and put within

Original Word: חָדָשׁ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dawsh')
Short Definition: new (used 53 times in the OT) (used in Ezik)


Original Word: חָדַשׁ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dash')
Short Definition: renew (used 10 times in the OT) (never used in Ezik).

When it says new moon, having chadash translated new, do you think it is a new moon every 30 days? or just a renewed moon because ofa renewed cycle that continually happens?

Seems you reference is using vowel points, something that was not originall in ANY OT manuscript (original) added after 900 ad... If this is ignored I dont think we can find a correct answer. Also the word of Yah itself says:

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My loving kindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness – I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

It does not say a new covenant will be made with Him, it says stand fast (or something of the same meaning depending on translation).

"My covenant will stand fast with Him"

"My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips"

For Yah to make a New He would have to break the old, He says, "My covenant I will not break"

Messiah was always the TRUE Sacrifice, the animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood were but placeholders..

View attachment 161848

 

[Hizikyah]

Christ has fulfilled the whole Law of Moses. We cannot. We cannot love the Lord our God with all our hearts and we cannot love our neighbor as ourselves.

We will fall short which is why we need a Savior. Which is why the Christian has died to the law of Moses, is released from the law of Moses and is not under the law of Moses.

The #1 commandment of God in the New Covenant - do not forget we are in a New Covenant and not in the Old Covenant = is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation and life. The other commandment in 1 John 3:23-24 is to love one another - We love now because He first loved us as 1 John 4:19 says.

Until we understand that reality - the gospel will be a mystery to us and will be trying to keep the Law of Moses for life and living. Until we understand that we are a new creation in Christ - all these will be a complete mystery to us.

I really encourage you to hear the gospel of the grace of God which is in Christ. It will change your life forever.

Christ has fulfilled the whole Law of Moses.

Your isolating to fit your doctrine. He said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." In context th Law and the prophets... Has all the Law and prophets been fulfilled? Did the Messiah already return? According to the next verse Yahshua/JEsus says; "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

Did heaven and earth pass?
Has ALL been fulfilled?

No then the Law still stands

It will happen : Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,"

That is future, so untill you listen to tthe words of Yahshua/Jesus you will be missing the mark, because your entire doctrine is based off of a Scrip[tual error. Now if you can show me that these 2 things have already happened, then we can talk, until then, I think it is you that needs to hear the Savior.

Matt 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens. “
​

​

Matthew 5:17-19,(KJV), “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

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​

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."


​

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Christ has fulfilled the whole Law of Moses. We cannot. We cannot love the Lord our God with all our hearts and we cannot love our neighbor as ourselves.

Now the second part I agree we can not walk perfectly, that is why we have the true Lamb, wiothout spot or blemish. The third part I disagree with:

We cannot love the Lord our God with all our hearts and we cannot love our neighbor as ourselves.

This IS TOTAL NONSENSE. You are telling me I need a life change through the Message of Messiah, I think you need to isolate yourself with His words for a month.

[FONT=Arial, serif]Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments [/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif]hang all the Law[/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif] and the Prophets."[/FONT]​

 

[Grace777x70]

Your isolating to fit your doctrine. He said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." In context th Law and the prophets... Has all the Law and prophets been fulfilled? Did the Messiah already return? According to the next verse Yahshua/JEsus says; "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

Did heaven and earth pass?
Has ALL been fulfilled?

No then the Law still stands

It will happen : Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,"

That is future, so untill you listen to tthe words of Yahshua/Jesus you will be missing the mark, because your entire doctrine is based off of a Scrip[tual error. Now if you can show me that these 2 things have already happened, then we can talk, until then, I think it is you that needs to hear the Savior.

Matt 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens. “
​

​

Matthew 5:17-19,(KJV), “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

​

​

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."


​

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.



Now the second part I agree we can not walk perfectly, that is why we have the true Lamb, wiothout spot or blemish. The third part I disagree with:



This IS TOTAL NONSENSE. You are telling me I need a life change through the Message of Messiah, I think you need to isolate yourself with His words for a month.

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."​

All was fulfilled in Christ. Christ fulfilled the law for us.The Law of Moses is still in effect but it is that the true Christian is NOT under the law , has died to the Law and has been released from the Law. The law is NOT of faith and the righteous live by faith.

We live by the life of Christ now - not by keeping the law of Moses. To go back to the law of Moses for life and living is to cut ourselves off from the grace of Christ working in our lives as Paul talks about in Galatians. Law-keepers always replace Christ with the Law. It is an anti-Christ belief system. They continually leave out the work of Christ for the keeping of the law of Moses instead.

We live now by the law of Christ within us, the law of liberty in Christ Jesus, the law of faith, the law of love, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus. We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ in us for living now. Love will not violate the intent of the law.

The preaching of Christ alone for life and living and for righteousness is a stumbling block to those that try to live by the Law of Moses. Jesus encountered these types and so did Paul and they are amongst us even to this day.

Jesus has loved the Lord His God with all His heart and soul and mind and we are in Him. Jesus fulfilled that for us so as we live by the life of Christ in us ( Gal. 2:20 ) - we too fulfill the 2 greatest commandments in the law of Moses.

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so. These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.

It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

This is an anti-Christ belief system religion which has the "appearance" of good but it is really denying the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work. Hebrews 4:10

 

[Hizikyah]

All was fulfilled in Christ.

SO this has been fulfilled? (I asked in the last post but you didnt touch on this one:

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

​

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Did heaven and earth pass?

 

[VCO]

Psalm 51:10, "Create in me a clean heart, O Yah; and renew a right spirit within me."
. . .

Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Messiah Yahshua. And if you are Messiah’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."

There is only one way, that way is through Yahshua/Jesus. There is not one path for the Hebrew and one for the Gentile. For if you are a follower of Messiah you are no longer a Gentile, but and Israylite.

"it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl"

Here is how I keep the explanation simple:

O.T. saints believed God would send the Messiah to redeem them from their sins.

N.T. saints believe God did send the Messiah to redeem us from our sins.

IT IS THE SAME FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.


That is also why I think the Church has misunderstood all these centuries who are the two folds that Jesus talked about, in that we have always assumed the two groups were Jews and Gentiles. I think a better interpretation is O.T. saints and N.T. saints:

John 10:14-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.

NOTE: The Church had not yet started, so when Jesus said this, the other sheep, yet in the future, was a reference to what we now call the Church. He was speaking to the last of the O.T. saints. Also, know that the word CHURCH is not in the original Greek Manuscripts. The Greek word ekklêsia literally translates to the Assembly; the SAME THING HE CALLED the O.T. Congregation. Which makes the following verse even more interesting when translated literally like the YLT did.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Hence the two folds, become one flock in the Messiah, and Adam was the first member of HIS ASSEMBLY.

 

[Grace777x70]

SO this has been fulfilled? (I asked in the last post but you didnt touch on this one:

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

​

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Did heaven and earth pass?

The earth did not need to pass away because Christ has fulfilled the law of Moses. The reason why the smallest jot or tittle of the law must remain in tact - because it reveals God's righteousness and no one can achieve God's righteousness but God Himself which is why Christ came to take our place and fulfill all the righteous requirement of the law.

Christ is our righteousness not the keeping of the law of Moses. The law will still be there for those not in Christ and the earth is still here too. True Christians have died to the Law , been released from the Law and are not under the law. It doesn't get much plainer than that.

Going back to the law of Moses for the Christian is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord Jesus Christ. We have died to the law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. Christians are not going to desert their Lord for the law of Moses. Gal. 1:6

 

[Hizikyah]

Here is how I keep the explanation simple:

O.T. saints believed God would send the Messiah to redeem them from their sins.

N.T. saints believe God did send the Messiah to redeem us from our sins.

IT IS THE SAME FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.


That is also why I think the Church has misunderstood all these centuries who are the two folds that Jesus talked about, in that we have always assumed the two groups were Jews and Gentiles. I think a better interpretation is O.T. saints and N.T. saints:

John 10:14-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.

NOTE: The Church had not yet started, so when Jesus said this, the other sheep, yet in the future, was a reference to what we now call the Church. He was speaking to the last of the O.T. saints. Also, know that the word CHURCH is not in the original Greek Manuscripts. The Greek word ekklêsia literally translates to the Assembly; the SAME THING HE CALLED the O.T. Congregation. Which makes the following verse even more interesting when translated literally like the YLT did.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Hence the two folds, become one flock in the Messiah, and Adam was the first member of HIS ASSEMBLY.

IMO: The Body of Messiah. All united in Yahshua/Jesus. Thus following the doctrine of Messiah.

Yahanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Yahanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."



Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."



Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.
​

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Yahanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."


Yahanan (John) 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

​

Yahanan (John) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
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Yahanan (John) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
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Yahanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
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Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

​

 

[Hizikyah]

SO this has been fulfilled? (I asked in the last post but you didnt touch on this one:

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

​

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Did heaven and earth pass?

The earth did not need to pass away because Christ has fulfilled the law of Moses. The reason why the smallest jot or tittle of the law must remain in tact - because it reveals God's righteousness and no one can achieve God's righteousness but God Himself which is why Christ came to take our place and fulfill all the righteous requirement of the law.

Christ is our righteousness not the keeping of the law of Moses. The law will still be there for those not in Christ and the earth is still here too. True Christians have died to the Law , been released from the Law and are not under the law. It doesn't get much plainer than that.

Going back to the law of Moses for the Christian is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord Jesus Christ. We have died to the law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. Christians are not going to desert their Lord for the law of Moses. Gal. 1:6

View attachment 162115

SO Scripture says heaven and earth will pass, many times in the mouths of the prophets... and you say:

The earth did not need to pass away because Christ has fulfilled the law of Moses.

You believe and teach false doctrine. It is a propecy, by the moth of many prophets, including the mouth of Yahshua/Jesus...

Luke 24:25, "He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

[FONT=Arial, serif]Malachi/Malakyah 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Arial, serif]of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. 2 “But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. 3 “And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Arial, serif]of hosts. 4 “Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings."

[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, serif]Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Arial, serif]is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Arial, serif]has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torot, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.[/FONT]
​

Matt 24:21-2, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning ofthe world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

[FONT=Arial, serif]Isayah 51:6, “Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look on the earth beneath, for the heavens shall vanish like smoke, and the earth wear out like a garment, and those who dwell in it die as gnats. But My deliverance is forever, and My righteousness is not broken."

[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, serif]Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

[/FONT]
Luke 24:25, "He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

​

[FONT=Arial, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3, "1 This is now, beloved ones, the second letter I write to you, in which I stir up your sincere mind, to remember 2 the words previously spoken by the set-apart prophets, and of the command of the Master and Saviour, spoken by your emissaries, 3 knowing this first: that mockers shall come in the last days with mocking, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all continues as from the beginning of creation.” 5 For they choose to have this hidden from them: that the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by the Word of Yah, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, serif]7 And the present heavens and the earth are treasured up by the same Word, being kept for fire, to a day of judgment and destruction of wicked men. [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, serif]8 But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Arial, serif]one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif] 9 [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Arial, serif]is not slow in regard to the promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward us, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, serif]10 But the day of [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Arial, serif]shall come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with intense heat, and the earth and the works that are in it shall be burned up. [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, serif]11 Seeing all these are to be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be in set-apart (holy) behaviour and reverence, [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, serif]1 Peter/Kepha 1:13-16, "13 Therefore, having girded up the loins of your mind, being sober, set your expectation perfectly upon the favour that is to be brought to you at the revelation of [/FONT]יהושע [FONT=Arial, serif]Messiah, 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts in your ignorance, 15 instead, as the One who called you is set-apart (holy), so you also should become set-apart (holy) in all behaviour, 16 because it has been written, “Be set-apart (holy), for I am set-apart (holy).”[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, serif]12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of Yah, through which the heavens shall be destroyed, being set on fire, and the elements melt with intense heat! [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, serif]13 But according to His promise we wait for a renewed heavens and a renewed earth in which righteousness dwells. [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, serif]14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,[/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif] 15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif] 17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,[/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif] 18 but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT]יהושע [FONT=Arial, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn."[/FONT]


​

 

[wanderer6059]

When it says new moon, having chadash translated new, do you think it is a new moon every 30 days? or just a renewed moon because ofa renewed cycle that continually happens?

Seems you reference is using vowel points, something that was not originall in ANY OT manuscript (original) added after 900 ad... If this is ignored I dont think we can find a correct answer. Also the word of Yah itself says:

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My loving kindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness – I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

It does not say a new covenant will be made with Him, it says stand fast (or something of the same meaning depending on translation).

"My covenant will stand fast with Him"

"My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips"

For Yah to make a New He would have to break the old, He says, "My covenant I will not break"

Messiah was always the TRUE Sacrifice, the animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood were but placeholders..

to help you understand vowel points brother, also if you want to "quote the bible your way" you need to take out ever vowel.

[FONT=&quot](1) The Masoretes invented a system of vocalization, punctuation, and cantillation marks for the consonantal Hebrew text. Like Arabic, Hebrew has always been written without vowels, so that the earliest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, those found in the Dead Sea Scrolls (more on that later), are without vowels. This inevitably leads to ambiguities and uncertainties when reading the text, as a particular consonantal word can be read in a variety of ways depending on where one might place the vowels. The Masoretes invented a system of vocalization, known today as the Tiberian system of vocalization, which followed with extreme exactitude the pronunciation of Hebrew that they had received in their tradition. This system of vocalization was incredibly precise, noting, for example the difference between a short vowel /a/, a long vowel /ɑ/, and the half short vowel /ă/, and the half short vowel /ɔ̆/. Vowels were indicated using a system of dots, bars, and other marks placed around the consonants known as niqqūd “pointing.” In addition, this system of pointing indicated an elaborate scheme of punctuation as well as a system for noting cantillation for chanting the text in the synagogue.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) The Masoretes kept meticulous notes about the Hebrew text in the margins of the manuscripts. There are two of these margins, the large and the small, known respectively as the Masorah Magna and the Masorah Parva. These margins noted, for example the number of times a particular word occurred in the entire Hebrew Bible. For example, if a word occurred only once in the Hebrew Bible, the Masoretes would place a circle over the word and note in the margin ֹל, which is an Aramaic abbreviation for לא אית or לית lā ˀīṯ or lēṯ meaning “there is not (any more of this word).” Also, the Masoretes even kept track of the number of words and letters in a particular book. At the end of a book or a large section, they would note, for example, סכום התיבות של תורה תשעה ושבעה אלף ושמונה מאות וחמשים וששה “The sum of the words in the Torah is 97,856,” or סכום האותיות של תורה ארבעה מאות אלף ותשע מאות וארבעים וחמשה “The sum of the letters in the Torah is 400,945.” This system of accounting assured that not “one jot or tiddle” would be left out.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So the Masoretes were only one link in the chain of a long tradition of the transmission of the Hebrew Bible. They themselves did not change the consonantal text, but only noted it and described it with the kind of precision that we would normally associate with computers. As such, the so-called Masoretic Text existed long before the Masoretes, going back as far as the Dead Sea Scrolls, a text we will call the Proto-Masoretic Text.[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

to help you understand vowel points brother, also if you want to "quote the bible your way" you need to take out ever vowel.

I studied vowel points years ago. Thank you tho. and yes I beleive in the original texts, that did not contain a single vowel point.

 

[wanderer6059]

I studied vowel points years ago. Thank you tho. and yes I beleive in the original texts, that did not contain a single vowel point.

then its impossible for you to quote any bible, because the English language uses vowels. and if you try to you will misinterpret it like you are because every English bible has to add them to be translated.

 

[Grace777x70]

SO Scripture says heaven and earth will pass, many times in the mouths of the prophets... and you say:



You believe and teach false doctrine. It is a propecy, by the moth of many prophets, including the mouth of Yahshua/Jesus...

Luke 24:25, "He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

Malachi/Malakyah 4:1-4, “For look, the day shall come, burning like a furnace, and all the proud, and every wrongdoer shall be stubble. And the day that shall come shall burn them up,” said יהוה of hosts, “which leaves to them neither root nor branch. 2 “But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall. 3 “And you shall trample the wrongdoers, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,” said יהוה of hosts. 4 “Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings."

Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, יהוה is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for יהוה has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torot, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.

Matt 24:21-2, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning ofthe world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

Isayah 51:6, “Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look on the earth beneath, for the heavens shall vanish like smoke, and the earth wear out like a garment, and those who dwell in it die as gnats. But My deliverance is forever, and My righteousness is not broken."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.


Luke 24:25, "He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"
​

Luke 24:25 was talking about Jesus Himself - oh slow to for the religious Jew that is basing their life on keeping the law instead of to believe in Christ's work alone for life and living. He did this by dying on the cross and rose again for our justification ( righteousness)

Luke 24:25-27 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!

[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?"

[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

It is all about Jesus now and not in keeping the law of Moses. His life in us is all we live by now. We can trust the Holy Spirit in us. We can trust the life of Christ and His love in us now.

I was NOT saying that the earth would not pass away...

Jesus was merely saying that the earth will not pass away until all be fulfilled and not one jot nor tittle will pass from it. Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses for us and so when the time comes for the earth to be done away with - it'll be ready. The purpose of the Law of Moses was to reveal sin in our lives and to see that we need a Savior.

There will be one day a new earth and new heaven and only those with the righteousness of Jesus will be participating in it - not those that try to get righteousness from the law of Moses. Do not replace Christ with the law of Moses. That is denying the Lord Jesus Christ who bought us with His precious blood.

Romans 10:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),

I encourage you to put your complete faith in what Christ has done for you. You can trust the Holy Spirit within you for life and living now.

Bless you.

 

[Hizikyah]

then its impossible for you to quote any bible, because the English language uses vowels. and if you try to you will misinterpret it like you are because every English bible has to add them to be translated.

Lol, the vowels are naturally pronounced, but not written, proof that the masorites altered the language is that they added different vowel points to YHWH, and said one is Adonai one is Elohim...

No,

יהוה
​

is
יהוה


​

you can add whatever dashes and dots you want



it does not change His name...

Also, if the originals are somehow unreadable or untranslateable, how did people read them prior to vowel points being added, and how are there translations made from the originals?

 

[Hizikyah]

I encourage you to put your complete faith in what Christ has done for you. You can trust the Holy Spirit within you for life and living now.

Bless you.

You twist Scripture then add your own attachment to my life based on what you say... Things you would have no way of knowing, yet you proclaim them...

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

​

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

 

[Grace777x70]

One way that the Covenant changed from the "Old" to the "New" is that we now life by a new law and NOT the law of Moses. That new law is Christ Himself in our new hearts. We live now by the life of Another within us - Christ Himself.

We do have laws in the New Covenant. We are not left "lawless". They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.

There is no greater revelation than to know Him and the Father and to plumb the depths of their love and grace towards us which Paul says in Eph. 2:7 - the Father will be doing for all the ages to come to us.

Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) The law of liberty ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the Old Covenant of the law of Moses that was a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

 

[wanderer6059]

Lol, the vowels are naturally pronounced, but not written, proof that the masorites altered the language is that they added different vowel points to YHWH, and said one is Adonai one is Elohim...

No,

יהוה

is
יהוה


​

you can add whatever dashes and dots you want

View attachment 162117

it does not change His name...

Also, if the originals are somehow unreadable or untranslateable, how did people read them prior to vowel points being added, and how are there translations made from the originals?

the originals were before the dysphoria, the whole reason for the adding of the vowel points was to preserve the context of the original writings whale the invasion of native culture transformed the Jewish people. The masoretic Points, from MASSOREH ("tradition"), and MASAR ("to hand down"). doing this they attached their understanding to the words and names in their texts of the Hebrew Bible. every english word of the bible you quote comes from this type of writing.

 

[wanderer6059]

Lol, the vowels are naturally pronounced, but not written, proof that the masorites altered the language is that they added different vowel points to YHWH, and said one is Adonai one is Elohim...

No,

יהוה

is
יהוה


​

you can add whatever dashes and dots you want

View attachment 162117

it does not change His name...

Also, if the originals are somehow unreadable or untranslateable, how did people read them prior to vowel points being added, and how are there translations made from the originals?

and Adonai=Lord, Master. while. Elohim=Creator, Judge. the makings give CONTEXT to the Writing just like our punctuation does!!!!!!!!!!! see i just did it there, do you "understand" Brother?!?!?!?!?!