Why don't we keep the Sabbath?

[VW]

As a further point, Paul wrote that the Law is good, if it is used lawfully, that is, that we know that the law is not for the righteous person, but for the unrighteous. And the writer of Hebrews wrote that the Law was replaced, because even though the Law was good and godly, it made nothing perfect, and we know that the requirement of God is perfection, just as He is perfect.

There is only one way for us to be perfect, and that is to be in Christ Jesus.

 

[phil36]

I pray and hope this will shed some light on the subject at hand. This is an extract from John Murray, 'The pattern of the Lords Day'.

The Prospective Reference

"There remains therefore a Sabbath keeping for the people of God" (Heb. 4:9)
The context of this passage is all-important for its interpretation and for
appreciation of its implications. At verse 4 there is quotation of Genesis 2:2: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works." This, of course, refers to God's _own_ rest. At verse 5 there is allusion to the rest of Canaan and quotation of Psalm 95:11 (cf. also vs. 3 and 3:11) in reference to the failure of too many to enter into it (cf. Psalm 95:10). The remarkable feature of verse 5 as of Psalm 95:11 is that this rest of Canaan is called God's rest ("my rest"). Why this characterization? It is not sufficient to say that it was the rest God provided. The proximity of reference to God's own rest in verse 4 requires more than the thoughts of mere provision by God. We cannot say less than that God calls it his rest because the rest of Canaan was patterned after God's rest - it partook of the character of God's rest. The same kind of identification appears in verse 10 with reference to the rest that remains for the people of God. "For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his." So the rest of Canaan and the rest that remains for the people of God are called God's rest because both partake of the character of God's own rest in resting from his creative work on the seventh day. Here is something highly germane to the present topic.



It is clear that the rest of Canaan and the rest that remains for the people of God are redemptive in character. Since they are patterned after God's rest in creation, this means that the redemptive takes on the character of that rest of God upon which the Sabbath institution for man originally rested and from which it derived its sanction. We cannot but discover in this again the close relation between the creative and the redemptive in the Sabbath ordinance and the coherence of Exodus 20:11 and Deuteronomy 5:15. We are reminded again that likeness to God governs man's obligation and is brought to its realization in the provisions of redemption. In the consummation of redemption the Sabbath rest of God's people achieves conformity to the fullest extent. "For he who has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" (cf. Rev. 14:13). The Sabbath institution in all its aspects and applications has this prospective reference; the whole movement of redemption will find its finale in the Sabbath rest that remains. The weekly Sabbath is the promise, token, and foretaste of the consummated rest; it is also the earnest. The biblical philosophy of the Sabbath is such that to deny its perpetuity is to deprive the movement of redemption of one of its most precious strands.





Redemption has a past, a present, and a future. In the Sabbath as "the Lord's day" all three are focused. In retrospect it is the memorial of our Lord's resurrection. In the present with resurrection joy it fulfils its beneficent design by the lordship of the Son of man. As prospect it is the promise of the inheritance of the saints. With varying degrees of understanding and application it is this perspective that dictated the observance of the Lord's day in catholic, protestant and reformed tradition. Shall we forfeit in institution so embedded in redemptive revelation and recognized as such in the history of the church of Christ? In the faith and for the honour of the Sabbath's Lord may we answer with a decisive, no! In devotion to him may we increasingly know the joy and blessing of the recurring day of rest and worship.
(John Murray, The Pattern of the Lord's Day)

 

[Israel]

I neglected to comment on this section of the post.


Further more, if God did not require it, why did He write in STONE with His own FINGER ... 'REMEMBER the Sabbath Day" ?

****end of gatta quote****


Let me ask you something. If the ten commandments, and the Sabbath Law are eternal, as you claim them to be, then why did not Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob keep them? Why is there no mention of Noah keeping them? Noah had a covenant with God, and yet did not keep the Sabbath. Abraham had a covenant with God, yet did not keep it. The bible says that God walked with Abraham. Are you saying that Abraham, in his 900+ years on the earth, who walked with God, and knew Noah's sons personally, was too spiritually immature to receive a law which you claim is dear to God's heart, and is for all people in all times? Was Moses, who was not allowed to see God, and not even allowed into the promise land, given something that was denied to Abraham? The bible makes no mention of the ten commandments with either the Noahic or Abramhamic covenants, which are both clearly defined. The first mention of the ten commandments is along with the Mosaic covenant, as part of it.

This law was a national law, given only to Israel to govern them as a nation.

Exodus 20: 2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

God makes this statement immediately before giving the ten commandments. Did God bring the Gentiles out of Egypt?

And the law had a limited duration.

Galatians 3: 19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

That seed is Christ. And once He came, and fulfilled the law, it was completed and ceased to have legality.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob DID obey the Sabbath! This law is spirit and should be obeyed as a spiritual law. God never told Cain not to murder but it's a sin nonetheless as Cain was indeed punished for it.

 

[gatta]

I understand what you are saying from your view of this. But the point is no-one could obey the law. And although I am not an expert on th Mosaic law, I would imagine that the hardest parts of that law to obey would be found in the Ten commandments.

Right, answer me this: Is it hard for you to love God and your neighbour as Jesus pointed out in MAT 22:37,38? Because if you cannot keep the 10 commandments, that is what you are impying. Jesus said: "If you love me you will keep my commandments. JOHN 14:15".

But I feel that the real point of this is found in Rom3:31. No-one is saying the Ten Commandments(or nine to me!) are bad laws in any way, but how do we truly obey them? According to Paul he had to die to the law in order to uphold it.

Does James 2:10 not say that if you break one you break them all? So if you only keep nine, that means you are keeping some, but not all. If you keep even NINE, you are keeping the law. Therefore, in not keeping ALL 10, you are a law breaker. And again, IS IT HARD FOR YOU TO LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOUR(Mat 22:37,38)?

Therefore I do not see how the Ten Commandments were left in place while the rest of the law was abolished

Did Jesus not say: "I have not come to ABOLISH the law, I have come to FULFILL it. MAT 5:17" In your opinion, does this mean Paul was teaching contrary to what Jesus was teaching? If so, does that not make you worried?

 

[QuestionTime]

Why don't we keep the Sabbath anymore? Simple question really.

Read Hebrews 4 and you'll find out how you can keep the Sabbath. It's not in the old way of the letter, but in the new way of the Spirit.

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

Right, answer me this: Is it hard for you to love God and your neighbour as Jesus pointed out in MAT 22:37,38? Because if you cannot keep the 10 commandments, that is what you are impying. Jesus said: "If you love me you will keep my commandments. JOHN 14:15".

Does James 2:10 not say that if you break one you break them all? So if you only keep nine, that means you are keeping some, but not all. If you keep even NINE, you are keeping the law. Therefore, in not keeping ALL 10, you are a law breaker. And again, IS IT HARD FOR YOU TO LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOUR(Mat 22:37,38)?

It's not only hard, it's impossible.

Did Jesus not say: "I have not come to ABOLISH the law, I have come to FULFILL it. MAT 5:17" In your opinion, does this mean Paul was teaching contrary to what Jesus was teaching? If so, does that not make you worried?

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, that's absolutely correct Gatta. So stop trying to fulfill the Law by your own efforts and allow Jesus to do it for you.

That means, you tell God that you can't keep His Law, you throw down all of your efforts to obey and you say: "I trust you to save me from sin Jesus. I want your Righteousness by faith and not my own righteousness." It's very frightening to do this, but give it a try because once you do, Jesus will begin to build your faith and love in Himself. When your love is then full grown, you will experience God's cleansing and the Holy Spirit entering into your heart, just like He did at Pentecost.

From that point forward, obedience to God will be a joy, and never a burden.

Anyways, I'm joining this conversation late so please forgive me if I misunderstand.

Quest

 

[gatta]

Not at all. They are fulfilled.

Great!! A point we do agree upon! Consider this, though: Being fulfilled means they have been given their TRUE meaning. NOT abolished, not DONE AWAY with. Their purpose was to point to Jesus, and He came to fulfill their meaning.

And as with any contract, once the conditions are met, the contract is complete and no longer binding.

If you say that the 10 commandments were like a contract with an expiry date, why did God say in Deut 5:29 that it were to be kept ALWAYS? With all due respect, I prefer to adhere to what God says!

The ten commandments, and all requirements of the law were met when Jesus died on the cross.

How did Jesus dying on the cross cancel the command to love God with all your mind and all your soul? How did Jesus' death on the cross abolish the command to love your neighbour. Jesus' death on the cross fulfilled the ceremonial laws (which were a shadow pointing to the ULTIMATE Lamb who was going to be slain).

If you look at the Sermon on the Mount, which is the roadmap for righteous living, there is no mention of keeping the Sabbath.

Does the Sermon on the Mount mention that we shouldn't have idols and bow down to them? Does the Sermon on the Mount mention that we should not Blaspheme? Again, with all due respect, your argument does not hold water.

When the Apostles started the Church on Pentecost, it was on the first day of the week.

Interesting statement - care to share the scripture that confirms it?

The Apostles, who were guided by the Holy Spirit, routinely met and "broke bread" on the first day of the week.

I am not sure what you think "breaking bread" means, but I suggest you study the greek words to get the full meaning of that phrase. I wouldn't want you to be misled.

Why would Jesus send the Holy Spirit to mislead the Apostles into not keeping the Sabbath if it were still binding?

Where does scripture (or Peter or Paul, for that matter) say that we are NOT to observe the Sabbath?

In none of these sermons is the ten commandments mentioned. This could be explained away by those sermons to Jews, who perhaps did not need to be taught about the law, but even in sermons to Gentiles, in no case is the ten commandments ever taught. If we cannot look to the Apostles, who were "filled with the Holy Spirit" for an example in this matter, than where can we look?

The Apostles did not teach a different gospel to that which Jesus taught. I hope we are in agreement about this point. And if they didn't teach a different gospel, they would have upheld ALL the things Jesus taught and did, right? Jesus spoke out about observing the Sabbath COUNTLESS times. Because He too was attacked by the pharisees about the Sabbath and how it was to be observed.

In answer to your question about where to look - why not try looking to Jesus?

In the words of the song: Turn your eyes upon Jesus, look full in His wonderful face. And the things of this earth will grow strangely dim, in the light of His glory and grace.

Thank you Lord, Jesus, for the offer you brought for us!

 

[gatta]

I would say null and void for the Christian in a legal sense, but any Christian who has reached maturity and continually broke most of them wouild not get into Heaven. Does that make sense?

It sure does. But then, it also means that we still follow them, right?

 

[livingbygrace]

Right, answer me this: Is it hard for you to love God and your neighbour as Jesus pointed out in MAT 22:37,38? Because if you cannot keep the 10 commandments, that is what you are impying. Jesus said: "If you love me you will keep my commandments. JOHN 14:15".

My own opinion here is that none of us fully and always obeys the Ten Commandments. I know you are sincere. Either I am one of the worst sinners on cc, or I am being honest. If anyone says they can always uphold all of the Ten Commandments I can only say I never have. To always without fail love our neighbour as ourself?(that isn't one of them though is it) Lets not forget Jesus added to the word of the law(he upped the ante so to speak.)
So no I couldn't perfectly uphold the Ten Commandments, but please refer to my final answer on this


Does James 2:10 not say that if you break one you break them all? So if you only keep nine, that means you are keeping some, but not all. If you keep even NINE, you are keeping the law. Therefore, in not keeping ALL 10, you are a law breaker. And again, IS IT HARD FOR YOU TO LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOUR(Mat 22:37,38)?

I believe James 2:10 shows us the futility of trying in any way to be justified, acceptable, or righteous before God by law/the Ten Commandments. Unless you can say that you perfectly without a slip always obey those commandments according to law, yes we have broken them all and are guilty of breaking them all, which would mean in God's eyes we are murderers. Therefore I personally turn to what the Apostle Paul wrote

Did Jesus not say: "I have not come to ABOLISH the law, I have come to FULFILL it. MAT 5:17" In your opinion, does this mean Paul was teaching contrary to what Jesus was teaching? If so, does that not make you worried?

I will try here and be as brief as possible, but it isn't easy, I do not want to be misconstrued. To me Christ fulfilled the law by dying for every sin the sincere Christian could commit, he became our sin offering. I used to believe that Jesus died for every sin I committed before I became a Christian, but after this if I made a mistake and sinned I had to come before him in sincere repentance and repent. Please hear me out! The trouble was I was coming before God everyday most of the time because according to what the beatitudes say and the Ten Commandments I was always breaking these laws/commandments. As Paul said I realised what was required and I fell far short of it. I became crushed, felt worthless and was wracked by guilt, I guess Paul felt the same over the commanment. 'Thou shalt not covet.' Can you say every day you always obeyed the beatitudes withoput fail? I never could.
Paul said when he realised what the law demanded he realised he was a sinner, and condemned. I personally found this too. Actually in the end I sinned far more than I ever had before I had become a Christian(as Paul did) I was desperate to obey God, but could not do it. To me looking back now, sin used the good laws of God to condemn me. If Paul is right sin will do that to anyone who sincerely wants to please God and loves him. But not many say this. So I have to wonder was Paul right, we cannot obey the law? or are people right if they feel they can? I go with Paul, because I found vthe same thing he did and I believe the Bible is the word of God.
Paul did not go against Jesus, but many lay this charge at him. Christ picked him out and gave him the revelation of the message he preached, and he wrote nearly half the books of the NT. My trust and faith in Jesus could never consider Paul got the message wrong.
Tp Paul we could not obey the law. It was upon the law that sin enslaves us, but the law itself is good. Paul wrote as I said yesterday that he died to the law so that he might live for Christ. He lived his life by faith in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, not by attempted law keeping. I feel that many do not understand that truly this is the only way uphold the good laws of God. There is no other way if Paul is correct. I will be very unpopular for saying this. But if people say they can focus on God's good laws and truly obey them without dying to the law and living by faith in Christ then if they are telling the truth the Bible must err where truth is concerned.

If we understand Paul's words in Rom3:31 we would I believe see that the mesasage Christ gave him was the message of the true victory of the cross

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law.

In my own life I can honestly say that by living by faith in Christ and not according to law I far better(though not perfectly) uphold the good laws of God. So I have no problem with what Paul wrote. I praise God for the message he gave him

Also

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace. Rom6:14

 

[gatta]

It's not only hard, it's impossible.

Quest, buddy, I am sorry that it is impossible for you to love God and your neighbour. All I can offer you is my prayers. As for me, I don't find it hard to love God. And the reason is that He loved me first (1 John 4:19) - what a wonderful assurance that I didn't have to do anything to make Him love me. He loved me regardless of where and who I was. AND, this is even MORE amazing - He STILL loves me!! Therefore, how can I not return such a love. My love will NEVER measure up to the intensity that He loves me, but with what I have, I love Him. And because I love Him, He is changing my heart to love my neighbours too. Some days are easier than others, but hey, I am growing in Him.

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, that's absolutely correct Gatta. So stop trying to fulfill the Law by your own efforts and allow Jesus to do it for you.

Quest, thank you for your concern. But I can assure you, nothing I do can match what Jesus ALREADY did for me. And showing my love for Him is not trying to fulfill anything. I know where my salvation comes from. I know who my Saviour is. I know that I am worthless and that my efforts are pointless.

That means, you tell God that you can't keep His Law, you throw down all of your efforts to obey and you say: "I trust you to save me from sin Jesus. I want your Righteousness by faith and not my own righteousness." It's very frightening to do this, but give it a try because once you do, Jesus will begin to build your faith and love in Himself. When your love is then full grown, you will experience God's cleansing and the Holy Spirit entering into your heart, just like He did at Pentecost.

From that point forward, obedience to God will be a joy, and never a burden.

Anyways, I'm joining this conversation late so please forgive me if I misunderstand.

Quest

Again, thank you for your concern (and might I add, your faint judgemental stab) but I am not burdened by the love that I have for God. My obedience to Him and His word IS and HAS BEEN a pleasure from the day I invited Him into my life.

 

[QuestionTime]

I am not the one kicking and screaming about upholding the 10 commandments .... I ACTUALLY do uphold it. And am proud to say that I uphold all 10, not just the ones I choose because it is convenient for me.

Again, God is good and He is in control. He created the DAY, He sactified it, He told me to observe it, and I am obedient to Him. AMEN

It sure does. But then, it also means that we still follow them, right?

Greetings Gatta,

I love that you are sincere in your desire to obey God.

Gal 3:
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

From reading your words, I am beginning to believe that you are where I once was. The Bible said go and obey, so I created my list of rules and I went out to follow them to the letter. Well, it didn't work out so well. I found that I often failed to keep my rules. Even worse, I realized in my heart that I didn't really love God. I was also fearful of death, and I realized that I was unwilling to die with Christ. Just like the Disciples ran when Jesus was arrested and they were fearful, I would run from God when the going got tough.

Eventually, I gave up all hope of obedience. I backslid from God in hopelessness. But God didn't leave me alone - nope - it was then that He began working in me. He showed me first that I can't keep the Law. The Law was a taskmaster telling me to gather straw and make bricks. Well, I just couldn't keep up with my quota. Now, I am coming to God in faith. I don't try anymore to keep God's commands, because I know in my heart that I can't. Instead, I come to Christ in faith now. I am seeking Him that I might receive his Righteousness that is by faith alone. I want that cleansing He promised me in Ezekiel 36. I want Him to "Cause me to walk" in his commandments. That was His promise: That He would "cause me to walk."

Ezek 36:
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

When the fruits of the Spirit live in us, we become good trees. Jesus said a bad tree can't bring forth good fruit, and a good tree can't bring forth bad fruit. The man in Romans 7 is a bad tree and try as he might, he just can't bring forth good fruit. But God's promise in Ezekiel is to make a man a good tree, and then as a good tree - full of the fruits of the Spirit - we will at all times obey God, without even putting any thought or effort into obedience.

God will catch us if we fall helplessly upon Christ.

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

Again, thank you for your concern (and might I add, your faint judgemental stab) but I am not burdened by the love that I have for God. My obedience to Him and His word IS and HAS BEEN a pleasure from the day I invited Him into my life.

It's just difficult when people adamantly stress obedience to the Law, to understand exactly where they are in their walk with God.

If you have experienced "Perfect Love" and it has driven all fear of death from you, then you are a true saint. I believe that is the single greatest measure of true faith. If a man/woman looks death in the face and is able to do so with the attitude: "To die is gain," then they are a true believer.

Quest

 

[livingbygrace]

Greetings Gatta,

I love that you are sincere in your desire to obey God.

Gal 3:
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

From reading your words, I am beginning to believe that you are where I once was. The Bible said go and obey, so I created my list of rules and I went out to follow them to the letter. Well, it didn't work out so well. I found that I often failed to keep my rules. Even worse, I realized in my heart that I didn't really love God. I was also fearful of death, and I realized that I was unwilling to die with Christ. Just like the Disciples ran when Jesus was arrested and they were fearful, I would run from God when the going got tough.

Eventually, I gave up all hope of obedience. I backslid from God in hopelessness.


Well put, I too found this. I personally can now love God and his precious Son in my heart. When I concentrated onb trying to obey the good laws of God I could not.

 

[gatta]

Right, just to lessen the confusion - if you want to quote my post in your reply, please don't answer INSIDE my quote. That makes it look like I was the one saying it, AND I might miss your post and not reply on it. Rather break up the quote - that way it is not confusing.

I am going to EXTRACT what you commented on INSIDE my quote and put it back in your quote below.

My own opinion here is that none of us fully and always obeys the Ten Commandments. I know you are sincere. Either I am one of the worst sinners on cc, or I am being honest. If anyone says they can always uphold all of the Ten Commandments I can only say I never have.

In saying that I keep the 10 commandments, does not mean in ANY way that I do not falter. Because I do. But guess what?? John teaches us that we SHOULD NOT sin. Yes, have a look at 1 John 1. 1 John 2:1,2 says My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. So, there is a promise for you!! Jesus KNEW that we would not be able to keep the commandments, and He took care of that problem. He intercedes for us!! Ain't that GREAT??

To always without fail love our neighbour as ourself?(that isn't one of them though is it)

uhm ... yes it is. hehehehe

Lets not forget Jesus added to the word of the law(he upped the ante so to speak.)

Interesting - care to share the scripture you are referring to here?

I believe James 2:10 shows us the futility of trying in any way to be justified, acceptable, or righteous before God by law/the Ten Commandments. Unless you can say that you perfectly without a slip always obey those commandments according to law, yes we have broken them all and are guilty of breaking them all, which would mean in God's eyes we are murderers. Therefore I personally turn to what the Apostle Paul wrote

uhm .. in God's eyes we are LAWBREAKERS, not murderers (unless you actually DID murder someone). But even so, refer to my first answer in this post.

I will try here and be as brief as possible, but it isn't easy, I do not want to be misconstrued. To me Christ fulfilled the law by dying for every sin the sincere Christian could commit, he became our sin offering. I used to believe that Jesus died for every sin I committed before I became a Christian, but after this if I made a mistake and sinned I had to come before him in sincere repentance and repent. Please hear me out! The trouble was I was coming before God everyday most of the time because according to what the beatitudes say and the Ten Commandments I was always breaking these laws/commandments. As Paul said I realised what was required and I fell far short of it. I became crushed, felt worthless and was wracked by guilt, I guess Paul felt the same over the commanment. 'Thou shalt not covet.' Can you say every day you always obeyed the beatitudes withoput fail? I never could.
Paul said when he realised what the law demanded he realised he was a sinner, and condemned. I personally found this too. Actually in the end I sinned far more than I ever had before I had become a Christian(as Paul did) I was desperate to obey God, but could not do it. To me looking back now, sin used the good laws of God to condemn me. If Paul is right sin will do that to anyone who sincerely wants to please God and loves him. But not many say this. So I have to wonder was Paul right, we cannot obey the law? or are people right if they feel they can? I go with Paul, because I found vthe same thing he did and I believe the Bible is the word of God.
Paul did not go against Jesus, but many lay this charge at him. Christ picked him out and gave him the revelation of the message he preached, and he wrote nearly half the books of the NT. My trust and faith in Jesus could never consider Paul got the message wrong.
Tp Paul we could not obey the law. It was upon the law that sin enslaves us, but the law itself is good. Paul wrote as I said yesterday that he died to the law so that he might live for Christ. He lived his life by faith in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, not by attempted law keeping. I feel that many do not understand that truly this is the only way uphold the good laws of God. There is no other way if Paul is correct. I will be very unpopular for saying this. But if people say they can focus on God's good laws and truly obey them without dying to the law and living by faith in Christ then if they are telling the truth the Bible must err where truth is concerned.

If we understand Paul's words in Rom3:31 we would I believe see that the mesasage Christ gave him was the message of the true victory of the cross

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law.

In my own life I can honestly say that by living by faith in Christ and not according to law I far better(though not perfectly) uphold the good laws of God. So I have no problem with what Paul wrote. I praise God for the message he gave him

Also

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace. Rom6:14

So we are in agreement with the teaching/command of Jesus: " Go and sin no more"?

I am truly happy for you that you were able to break free from the guilt. That's not where God wants us!
John 4:16-20 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear (or guilt) in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Did I hear a SLAM DUNK?? hehehe

 

[livingbygrace]

It sure does. But then, it also means that we still follow them, right?

No, we live by faith and follow after the Holy Spirt.

But the fruit of the Spirit is, love, Joy, peace, patience, goodness, faithfuilness, gentleness, and self control. Against such things there is no law. Gal5:22

 

[wisdomseeker]

Why don't we keep the Sabbath anymore? Simple question really.

You should keep the sabath

 

[livingbygrace]

Right, just to lessen the confusion - if you want to quote my post in your reply, please don't answer INSIDE my quote. That makes it look like I was the one saying it, AND I might miss your post and not reply on it. Rather break up the quote - that way it is not confusing.

I am going to EXTRACT what you commented on INSIDE my quote and put it back in your quote below.


In saying that I keep the 10 commandments, does not mean in ANY way that I do not falter. Because I do. But guess what?? John teaches us that we SHOULD NOT sin. Yes, have a look at 1 John 1. 1 John 2:1,2 says My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. So, there is a promise for you!! Jesus KNEW that we would not be able to keep the commandments, and He took care of that problem. He intercedes for us!! Ain't that GREAT??


uhm ... yes it is. hehehehe



Interesting - care to share the scripture you are referring to here?



uhm .. in God's eyes we are LAWBREAKERS, not murderers (unless you actually DID murder someone). But even so, refer to my first answer in this post.



So we are in agreement with the teaching/command of Jesus: " Go and sin no more"?

I am truly happy for you that you were able to break free from the guilt. That's not where God wants us!
John 4:16-20 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear (or guilt) in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Did I hear a SLAM DUNK?? hehehe

Sorry if I confused you with my answers.

To your first point. I can only (sorry to be repetetive) refer you again to Rom3:31 and Rom6:14. I completely agree we should not sin. But if the Bible is a truthful book, we sin far less by dying to the law and living by faith in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. If this is not true, the Bible cannot be a completely truthfiul book, surely?



Jesus said if you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have already committed adultery against her.

You have heard that it was said to the people long ago. Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgement. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brither will be subject to judgement. Agagin anyone who says to his broither racca is answerable to the sanhedrin, but anyone who says you fool will be in danger of the fire of hell. Matt5:22

I admit I do not that well know the OT, your knowledge will be greater than mine. Were all of Jesus commands to us in the Beatitudes written in the OT?

You quoted James2:10

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

As part of the law is thou shalt not murder. If we make a slip and are thereby guity of breaking all of the law in God's eyes, are we not therefore under that verse seen as murderers. That is my view on it.

I don't quite understand the slam dunk. If we loved God with all our heart, body, soul and mind and loved others as ourselves, according to Jesus words we would always uphold the law. But we don't always uphold it. Therefore we can say we fulfill these two commandments, but in effect we do not.

I can only repeat. Paul said he died to the law so he may live for Christ. If we do not accept that, then we must call into question 13 books of the NT.

 

[gatta]

Greetings Gatta,

I love that you are sincere in your desire to obey God.

Gal 3:
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

From reading your words, I am beginning to believe that you are where I once was.

And where was that exactly?

I doubt that we were at the same place, since I cannot identify with anything you wrote. Thank you for sharing your testamony, though.

 

[gatta]

It's just difficult when people adamantly stress obedience to the Law, to understand exactly where they are in their walk with God.

If you have experienced "Perfect Love" and it has driven all fear of death from you, then you are a true saint. I believe that is the single greatest measure of true faith. If a man/woman looks death in the face and is able to do so with the attitude: "To die is gain," then they are a true believer.

Quest

My obedience to God and His word is out of LOVE and reverence for Him - nothing more, nothing less.

 

[QuestionTime]

And where was that exactly?

I doubt that we were at the same place, since I cannot identify with anything you wrote. Thank you for sharing your testamony, though.

That is the place where Paul the Apostle was before Christ met him on the road to Damascus, or where the Disciples were before Pentecost. Peter was a very proud man, proud of his holiness walking in Christ's company. It was only after he betrayed Jesus that he came to an end to himself, realizing his inability to be righteous by his own efforts.

So far as I know, no man/woman comes to faith in Christ without first walking this path. The Law is the taskmaster to bring us to faith in Christ. The Law brings us to faith by crushing us under the weight of it's demands, and causing us to lose all hope in ourselves. The consequence then is, we look to Christ as our one and only living hope.

Quest