Is this teaching still valid for the NT Christian?

[Angela53510]

I say that the law is a shadow of the real substance which is Christ. The Jewish lawyer asked the Lord "What is the greatest commandment in the Law"

Jesus gave him the answer according to the law of Moses. No one can fulfill these commandments - only Christ Himself has loved the Lord His God with all His heart, soul and mind and loved others. He has fulfilled these commandments and thus fulfilled the Law of Moses.

We are in Him and by us being crucified on the cross with Jesus and being resurrected to being a new creation in Christ. Now, Christ lives in us and His life is what is bearing fruit in and through us.

His life in us will love the Lord our God and love others now that the love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. Rom. 5:5

We do not try to keep the law of Moses - instead we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. There is no more "oldness of the letter" in following the law of Moses. We serve in newness of the spirit now.

Romans 7:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.


A true Christian filled with Christ in them would never even have to even know about the law of Moses and they would be fulfilling this commandment because Christ is in them and His life would be manifesting as the person kept their eyes on Christ.

( reading the law is a good thing as we can see how Christ has fulfilled it all for us and we can see Christ in every part of the law from the silver footings in the tabernacle to the shedding of the lamb's blood. - so we don't throw out the law - we just look at it to see Christ now. )

This whole post ignores the Bible and history. Why could Paul write Romans 7:6? Because he knew Christ. But part of how he knew Christ came out of his rabbinical training. True, God showed him he didn't need to keep the laws of the Torah. But he did know specifically what God's expectations were for his behaviour, and how He was leading him. And how to act as a Jew when he needed to, and what was important to teach Gentiles. That is what all his epistles were about - teaching Gentiles!

It is unrealistic to expect a Roman gentile, or any other kind of Gentile to really understand God's expectations. Learning is important, and that means knowing the Bible. It means not just understanding rules, but understanding what God has taught us in the whole Bible.

My World Religions prof was a missionary to Indonesia. He led Muslims and head hunters to the Lord. Of course, the first thing they had to talk about after these head hunters got saved, was that killing people for their heads was against God's law. No matter how Spirit led they were, they did need to be taught "the milk of the Word." Just as anyone today in our society is probably pretty ignorant of the Word of God when they get saved. Sin is not a word that is in much favour today.

"Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation," 1 Peter 2:2

"12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!" Hebrews 5:12

The Word teaches us the truth's of God's Word. And if we are new believers, what we learn is like milk, and if we are older in the Lord, hopefully "solid food!"

So, as mature Christians, who have read the Bible, we know more or less God's expectations for our lives. And walking with God, obeying him, thanking him, praising him are certainly an important piece of the whole journey of sanctification.

But any gospel that does not keep sin in mind, is only half a gospel. Grace is wonderful and totally from God! But as Christians, we do have responsibilty to obey Christ, and what is found in the Word of God.

Any revelation that says we do not have to walk with God, and we do not have responsiblity for our sins, misses the character of God. God is love, but he is also justice. Christ's death and resurrection satisfies grace and it also atones for our sin. But that means that we have to know what sin is and repent of it!

To pretend that we just have to walk in the Spirit is a lie!. Because the Spirit uses the Word of God as part of the transformational process. Obeying God's word IS walking in the Spirit! We really do need to refer to the Word of God to grow, and to know God's expectations.

As for Romans 7:6, again, bad hermeneutics on that verse - simply pulled out of context, of a very difficult passage on justification. (Chapters 5,6,7 are all continuing on justification!). So here is my verse, pulled out of the same chapter!

"So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good." Romans 7:12

Hmm, Love that the law is "holy, righteous and good! Of course, I will categorically state that this is only part of the statement, and I am not going to analyze Romans 7, except to repeat it is part of the discourse on justification, and please stop pulling verses out of context, Grace777x77!

 

[PeterJens]

That's what the Law says, though, right? The law doesn't say just do your best. The law doesn't say its ok if you can't follow it the way it was designed to be followed. The law is perfect and holy and it demands perfection and holiness.

Why try to teach something and not even know what it is saying?

"it demands perfection and holiness."

Does God say we are commanded to be holy? I think you are either purified and cleansed
and so made holy, and cannot loose this unless you are defiled, ie it does not wear off with
a shelf life etc.

A lot of law is about how to be purified and what situation defiles this purification.

Perfection is an adjective, it needs a focus in what it is being referred to.
You cannot be perfectly beautiful, but you can be perfect without blemish.
So as a phrase it is miss-leading.

It strikes me the contributor was attempting to make the Lords intent as being
impossible, where the law is designed to be achievable, and even to deal with
failure and sin that is inadvertantly commited. God goes out of His way to emphasis
understanding. Jesus indicated divorce was made easy because living with just one
partner is a difficult union, and many found this very hard in the community they lived.

So the Lord did not expect perfection, which is why the sacrifices to deal with sin were
provided, for individuals to get right with God above and beyond the celebrations and
offerings of thanks giving etc. But this reality is hard for those who hate any formalised
sense of worship which God instituted. I suspect they regard this as evil, which it cannot
be because God ordained it.

 

[notuptome]

The Law of the Most High has mercy written into it.

Are you just imagining this?

Unpacking that one could be real interesting.

Romans 5: ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

This whole post ignores the Bible and history. Why could Paul write Romans 7:6? Because he knew Christ. But part of how he knew Christ came out of his rabbinical training. True, God showed him he didn't need to keep the laws of the Torah. But he did know specifically what God's expectations were for his behaviour, and how He was leading him. And how to act as a Jew when he needed to, and what was important to teach Gentiles. That is what all his epistles were about - teaching Gentiles!

It is unrealistic to expect a Roman gentile, or any other kind of Gentile to really understand God's expectations. Learning is important, and that means knowing the Bible. It means not just understanding rules, but understanding what God has taught us in the whole Bible.

My World Religions prof was a missionary to Indonesia. He led Muslims and head hunters to the Lord. Of course, the first thing they had to talk about after these head hunters got saved, was that killing people for their heads was against God's law. No matter how Spirit led they were, they did need to be taught "the milk of the Word." Just as anyone today in our society is probably pretty ignorant of the Word of God when they get saved. Sin is not a word that is in much favour today.

"Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation," 1 Peter 2:2

"12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!" Hebrews 5:12

The Word teaches us the truth's of God's Word. And if we are new believers, what we learn is like milk, and if we are older in the Lord, hopefully "solid food!"

So, as mature Christians, who have read the Bible, we know more or less God's expectations for our lives. And walking with God, obeying him, thanking him, praising him are certainly an important piece of the whole journey of sanctification.

But any gospel that does not keep sin in mind, is only half a gospel. Grace is wonderful and totally from God! But as Christians, we do have responsibilty to obey Christ, and what is found in the Word of God.

Any revelation that says we do not have to walk with God, and we do not have responsiblity for our sins, misses the character of God. God is love, but he is also justice. Christ's death and resurrection satisfies grace and it also atones for our sin. But that means that we have to know what sin is and repent of it!

To pretend that we just have to walk in the Spirit is a lie!. Because the Spirit uses the Word of God as part of the transformational process. Obeying God's word IS walking in the Spirit! We really do need to refer to the Word of God to grow, and to know God's expectations.

As for Romans 7:6, again, bad hermeneutics on that verse - simply pulled out of context, of a very difficult passage on justification. (Chapters 5,6,7 are all continuing on justification!). So here is my verse, pulled out of the same chapter!

"So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good." Romans 7:12

Hmm, Love that the law is "holy, righteous and good! Of course, I will categorically state that this is only part of the statement, and I am not going to analyze Romans 7, except to repeat it is part of the discourse on justification, and please stop pulling verses out of context, Grace777x77!

Angela...I do not feel like quoting a whole chapter in Romans or a whole book for that matter in order to get one point across. My point was that we serve in newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter because we have been released from the law.

So, I am not taking them out of context for the purpose that I used Romans 7:6 in.

So, please stop with the nonsense of having to take every scripture with the whole context for when it is being used just to show one point - there is no need to be quoting everything around it in all cases.

Your opening statement that this whole post is ignoring the Bible and history is a bunch of nonsense and completely unnecessary.

For example I could say that God is love - my whole point is to show God is love so I don't need to quote all the rest of the verses around 1 John 4:16 to show that God is love.

 

[Chester]

The Law of the Most High has mercy written into it.

The sacrifices were instituted because of the mercy of God. God knew Israel could not keep the law perfectly - but he instituted the sacrifices to show his mercy. Because the wages of sin is death, any who committed one sin should have died.

But the sacrificial system was God's plan of mercy.

 

[dcontroversal]

Obviously, and lest we forget Jesus was born, lived and died under the LAW!

 

[dcontroversal]

This whole post ignores the Bible and history. Why could Paul write Romans 7:6? Because he knew Christ. But part of how he knew Christ came out of his rabbinical training. True, God showed him he didn't need to keep the laws of the Torah. But he did know specifically what God's expectations were for his behaviour, and how He was leading him. And how to act as a Jew when he needed to, and what was important to teach Gentiles. That is what all his epistles were about - teaching Gentiles!

It is unrealistic to expect a Roman gentile, or any other kind of Gentile to really understand God's expectations. Learning is important, and that means knowing the Bible. It means not just understanding rules, but understanding what God has taught us in the whole Bible.

My World Religions prof was a missionary to Indonesia. He led Muslims and head hunters to the Lord. Of course, the first thing they had to talk about after these head hunters got saved, was that killing people for their heads was against God's law. No matter how Spirit led they were, they did need to be taught "the milk of the Word." Just as anyone today in our society is probably pretty ignorant of the Word of God when they get saved. Sin is not a word that is in much favour today.

"Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation," 1 Peter 2:2

"12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!" Hebrews 5:12

The Word teaches us the truth's of God's Word. And if we are new believers, what we learn is like milk, and if we are older in the Lord, hopefully "solid food!"

So, as mature Christians, who have read the Bible, we know more or less God's expectations for our lives. And walking with God, obeying him, thanking him, praising him are certainly an important piece of the whole journey of sanctification.

But any gospel that does not keep sin in mind, is only half a gospel. Grace is wonderful and totally from God! But as Christians, we do have responsibilty to obey Christ, and what is found in the Word of God.

Any revelation that says we do not have to walk with God, and we do not have responsiblity for our sins, misses the character of God. God is love, but he is also justice. Christ's death and resurrection satisfies grace and it also atones for our sin. But that means that we have to know what sin is and repent of it!

To pretend that we just have to walk in the Spirit is a lie!. Because the Spirit uses the Word of God as part of the transformational process. Obeying God's word IS walking in the Spirit! We really do need to refer to the Word of God to grow, and to know God's expectations.

As for Romans 7:6, again, bad hermeneutics on that verse - simply pulled out of context, of a very difficult passage on justification. (Chapters 5,6,7 are all continuing on justification!). So here is my verse, pulled out of the same chapter!

"So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good." Romans 7:12

Hmm, Love that the law is "holy, righteous and good! Of course, I will categorically state that this is only part of the statement, and I am not going to analyze Romans 7, except to repeat it is part of the discourse on justification, and please stop pulling verses out of context, Grace777x77!

Let us not forget the CONTEXT of the Hebrews quote and how the Hebrew Christians were wanting to place themselves under the BONDAGE OF THE LAW and ORDINANCES of the LAW while going back to a system that was INFERIOR!

 

[royalscot]

then came 70 ad . so history was blind to them or the wisdom of god was making a new covenant or way.

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant Hebrews 9

6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look at the earth beneath;
for the heavens vanish like smoke,
the earth will wear out like a garment,
and they who dwell in it will die in like manner;
but my salvation will be forever,
and my righteousness will never be dismayed.Isaiah 51

 

[resurrection33]

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Is this teaching still valid for the NT Christian?

and

How does this apply to our walk?

Jesus said these are the two great commandments, upon which hang all the law and prophets. I don't see how any Christian could suggest they are no longer valid. But then, there are Christians that choose to ignore his commandments regarding sexual morality, so I suppose anything is possible.

 

[Hizikyah]

The Law of the Most High has mercy written into it.

Are you just imagining this?

Have you ever heard of the Passover Lamb?

 

[Hizikyah]

The Law of the Most High has mercy written into it.

Let us not forget the CONTEXT of the Hebrews quote and how the Hebrew Christians were wanting to place themselves under the BONDAGE OF THE LAW and ORDINANCES of the LAW while going back to a system that was INFERIOR!

Youdo understand the "Hebrews" it was written to were stil doing animal sacrifices and had a levitical priesthood? I thnk that was inferior, I think do not kill stayed the same.

 

[dcontroversal]

Youdo understand the "Hebrews" it was written to were stil doing animal sacrifices and had a levitical priesthood? I thnk that was inferior, I think do not kill stayed the same.

Try again bro..they were wanting to and were trying to go back under the inferior way AFTER TASTING THE Grace of a BETTER WAY.

 

[Hizikyah]

Try again bro..they were wanting to and were trying to go back under the inferior way AFTER TASTING THE Grace of a BETTER WAY.

Will do DC


Hebrews 10

For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Consequently, when Christa came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16“This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”

17then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

18Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Clearly if we look at the context itsabout the law of sacrifices, and how Messiah's Sacrifie is the true Sacrifice...

 

[Hizikyah]

Jesus said these are the two great commandments, upon which hang all the law and prophets. I don't see how any Christian could suggest they are no longer valid. But then, there are Christians that choose to ignore his commandments regarding sexual morality, so I suppose anything is possible.

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

iniquity is word # G0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459, Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law, 1a) because ignorant of it, 1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[Zmouth]

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Is this teaching still valid for the NT Christian?

and

How does this apply to our walk?

You can't command anyone to love someone, or something that they don't want to and if one's love is by command then their love is not true love, but rather an act of submission which is nothing more than a form of oppression, which is nothing more than bondage.

So what did Yahshua say to you was the greatest commandment in the law of truth?

The Holy Ghost said to me, Hear zero and by faith I knew the other nine after hearing the first of the eternal Ten Commandments as if they were already written within me.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 2 Peter 1:5
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:27
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. Heb 6:14
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:Luke 12:51

So does that include His words in Mat 22:36-40?

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Once you hear the voice of the Holy Ghost then thou shalt love the Son of God in spirit and truth.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Rev 22:17

 

[FreeNChrist]

Obviously, and lest we forget Jesus was born, lived and died under the LAW!

Exactly. In order to redeem and liberate those who were under the Law. (Gal. 4:4-5)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ Himself, alive and living in us, and our faith in Him, is the basis of the Christians life.

"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." Gal. 2:20

true, but it is out of this, that the "love" of God flows through us and out to others, and we obey those two commands. So I would say both are right,, They both are a basis to Christian living, for you can not become christlike apart from either. Take one away, and our lives fall apart

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's what the Law says, though, right? The law doesn't say just do your best. The law doesn't say its ok if you can't follow it the way it was designed to be followed. The law is perfect and holy and it demands perfection and holiness.

Why try to teach something and not even know what it is saying?

Amen I think that is what Paul tried to show us in romans 7. The law can show us our failures, It can not, and was never intended to show us how to correct those failures. It was supposed to only lead us to the ne who can change us.

when we try on our own power. we relies we can not do what we want, and continue to do the things we do not want. That should break us. and in our broken state, Cause us to submit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Law of the Most High has mercy written into it.

the law shows Gods nature, and how we were created. It shows us our weekness The penalty of breaking the law was a curse, that curse being the death Jesus paid (gal 3)

 

[LaurenTM]

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Is this teaching still valid for the NT Christian?

and

How does this apply to our walk?

what do you mean is it still valid?

that's what Jesus said, didn't He?

thankfully, we don't have to work for our salvation

God changes our hearts so that we WANT to follow Him