Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

Whassup · Nov 28, 2016

Excus'em me brutha bro dude man, but Hebrews 9:27 says "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

Did that say WHEN??? Nosir, it did not! It just says how many times, not when you will die. God is not going around killing people unless of course they are evil and are destroying the lives of others and even then killing them is a last resort. Jesus came so we could have LIFE (see John 10:10)

Now, let me show you something you need to learn:

Psalms 91:1-16
He that dwells in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty....I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust....surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler (devil), and from the noisome pestilence (wicked and perverse plagues)....

He shall cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you shall trust: His truth (God’s Word) shall be your shield and buckler....you shall not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flies by day....nor for the pestilence (plague, disease) that walks in darkness; nor for the destruction that wastes at noonday....a thousand shall fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; but it shall not come near you....

only with your eyes shall you look and see the reward of the wicked....because you have made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, your habitation....there shall no evil come near you, neither shall any plague come near your dwelling....for He shall give his angels charge over you, to keep you in all your ways....they shall bear (help, hold up) you up in their hands, lest you stumble your foot against a stone....

you shall tread upon the lion and adder (the twisted): the young lion and the dragon (serpent) you shall trample under foot....because he hath set his love upon Me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he has known My Name....he shall call upon Me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him....with long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation (deliverance).

Did ya notice this wonderful promise made to those that dwells in the secret place of the most High, abiding under the shadow of the Almighty (that means walking close to the Lord and keep Him as your first love for those in Rio Linda)... did ya, did ya notice what the Lord God Almighty promised????

Actually, that's YOU that could die at any moment... God promised me LONG LIFE, unless the rapture happens and in that event I'm outta here brutha bro dude man.

Like I aid earlier... if you are going to reject God promises, be sure and keep your life insurance payments up so yo families can get some cash when you croak

Zmouth · Nov 28, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

Sounds as if you are implying that the Word of God is temperal? Lies are fleeting, truths are enduring but principles are from everlasting to everlasting; they don't twist and turn to appease the desires of the spirit but are the light which guide the souls of those walk while other sit in darkness.

maxwel · Nov 28, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

Yeah.

Seems like God has your days "numbered" and "determined", and has "bounds" for your life that you cannot pass.

Job 14:1 Man, that is born of a woman, Is of few days, and full of trouble.
Job 14:2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: He fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Job 14:3 And dost thou open thine eyes upon such a one, And bringest me into judgment with thee?
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, The number of his months is with thee, And thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

Seems like God has our days "measured", and has planned the "end".

Psa 39:4 LORD, make me to know mine end, and the measure of my days, what it is; that I may know how frail I am.

Seems like God has complete control of our days, and our "times" are in his "hand".

Psalm 31:15 My times are in thy hand: Deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.

posthuman · Nov 28, 2016

The voice of the LORD will call to the city -- And it is sound wisdom to fear Your name:
"Hear, O tribe. Who has appointed its time?"
(Micah 6:9)

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
let's look a little closer at that bit in Hebrews. just expand the context one verse, so we at least read the whole sentence:

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
(Hebrews 9:27-28)

just as the appointment ((literally, "it is laid up in store")) of men to die, and of judgment, the appointment of Christ to return.

so here's a question:

is Christ returning at an indefinite time, or at an ordained time? ((does the Father know the hour?))
did He come at a random time according to the will and actions of men? or at the time the Father chose from the beginning?

For at just the right time, while we were still powerless,
Christ died for the ungodly.
(Romans 5:6)

hmm..

Whassup · Nov 28, 2016

God does not contradict Himself so these scriptures do not do away with what the Lord said in Pslams 91.

Yes, He desires to lead our lives and has specific things for us to do but its His will that man live long on the earth

Ephesians 6:2,3
Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise)
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Obviously there are things WE can do to shorten our lives... but it's God will that we live long and not die early.

Whassup · Nov 28, 2016

Mark 13:29-33
So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

nowyouseem033 · Nov 28, 2016

Zmouth said:

Not at all. Gift of Healing was for a purpose. Not just to heal people but moreover to authenticate the apostles ministry that they were sent from God to preach the gospel. Healing exists today absolutely. But the gift of healing was to authenticate the message of the gospel. At least that whats a cessationist including myself would say. Its actually not treating the WOG temporally but rather treating it in its context and recognizing whats principally applicable today and what was going on in the early church during a different era/time.

posthuman · Nov 28, 2016

Whassup said:

Right. So the Father knows, therefore it is not indeterminate - the day is appointed and it's number is known to Him.

... And your 'key verse' in Hebrews says the appointment of our earthly death is the same.

Zmouth · Nov 28, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

Well, give them time and the whole passage of Mark 16 will be have to re-written.

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. Mark 16:1

Since there is only one Sabbath, being the seventh day of the week, seeing that Jesus was crucified on the sabbath.

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. John 19:31

So Mary Magdalene and Mary and Salome traveled in darkness to the tomb where they had watched him be placed in after his crucifixion the day before since it was the first day of the week this occurred.

And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.Mark 16:2

So who do you think Salome was? Well, the two ladies wouldn't have been able to roll the stone back to enter the tomb to anoint him so if the body came up missing then the Jews couldn't have accused them of doing it alone.
And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? Mark 16:3

One has to ponder their surprise when the dawn broke.

And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. Mark 16:4-5

But they really shouldn't have been, honor, duty and country is in the spirit of the Soldier.

Matt 8:8-10
8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

And where were all the disciples suppose to be? Galilee wasn't it?

6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. 7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. Mark 16:6-7

Hooah!

Whassup · Nov 28, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

satan loves this view point... it plays right in to his narrative of "did God really say..." as he continues claiming God is a liar in efforts to deceive mankind.

If you truly believe what you say... you won't ever have to concern yourself or pray for God to heal you should you ever need it... cause He won't.

In context of the Great Commission... Jesus says the gift of healing is ongoing.

Zmouth · Nov 28, 2016

maxwel said:

Yeah.

Seems like God has your days "numbered" and "determined", and has "bounds" for your life that you cannot pass.

Job 14:1 Man, that is born of a woman, Is of few days, and full of trouble.
Job 14:2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: He fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Job 14:3 And dost thou open thine eyes upon such a one, And bringest me into judgment with thee?
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, The number of his months is with thee, And thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

Seems like God has our days "measured", and has planned the "end".

Psa 39:4 LORD, make me to know mine end, and the measure of my days, what it is; that I may know how frail I am.

Seems like God has complete control of our days, and our "times" are in his "hand".

Psalm 31:15 My times are in thy hand: Deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. Gen 6:3

Zmouth · Nov 28, 2016

.....Ps 119:89

Zmouth · Nov 28, 2016

posthuman said:

So if Jesus is the Father then why did he say the Son didn't know.

nowyouseem033 · Nov 28, 2016

Whassup said:

LOL!! To authenticate the apostles ministry is the play of Satan??? I highly doubt it and though i understand the position did God say in this case its a question of intent and purpose behind the healing gift. What was the intent and purpose of it. I think maybe because my eyes are on the kingdom to come while yours is on living a prosperous and healthy life here and NOW!!! You know the Word of Faith movement type balony. Obsessed with the gifts and not the gospel. Living a life of self-fullfilment not self-denial. Emphasis on the signs and wonders not the message that saves. Man centered preaching not God centered preaching. Spiritual healing not physical. If you want to know what Satan loves is a christian who is distracted and swooped by all the gifts of God rather God himself. You know the type. "Lord lord, did we not heal in your name, drive demons etc" Jesus will say to those people who I have no doubt some are in the charasmatic movement Wof Faith movement "Depart from me... I never kneew you" hhhmmmm Satan loves those type.

nowyouseem033 · Nov 28, 2016

Zmouth said:

Is that speaking of his return not when everybody dies???? Dont commit the out of context sin. lol

Zmouth · Nov 28, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

Didn't the the Son of David give the answer in Ecc 9:5

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 13:3

Miri · Nov 28, 2016

Whassup said:

I just wanted to comment on the bit in bold. Generally speaking from youth to middle age, unless you are
genetically predisposed towards some sort of illness, it is the norm for people to have this amount of time
without having anything major wrong, apart from the odd virus cold etc. Even non Christians can claim that!

Men especially should remain healthy longer as they do not have the complications of monthly cycles
to deal with, giving birth, menopause etc.

Until the age of 37 I had no medical problems.

My cousin who is 57 and is not a Christians has never had anything wrong with him.

On the other hand I know a Christian who refuses to go to doctors unless she is really bad,
even then she still prefers to pray and believe for healing and only uses any prescription as a last
resort. She is very much a WOF person. She tells everyone to pray for healing and to anoint
themselves with oil. She always tells people God always heals her and she never gets ill.

I know however that what she says and thinks is not reality, she has suffered from depression,
shingles, pneumonia, she currently has cataracts. She also has glaucoma - I did have a problem with
pressure in my eyes and she told me all I had to do was pray for healing. I didn't point out what
about you, why do you still have glaucoma as im not that cruel!

This is the problem WOF people like to hide behind reality. They tell you just pray and if you are
not healed they say it's because of unbelief, but many of them are not healed either! So either
God is wrong or they are wrong and unrealistic.

Can I ask is everyone in WOF churches without sickness, is everyone rich, is everyone
having their needs met. If not why not! That's what WOF teaches isn't it. What does happen
is people in these churches get disillusioned with God (due to the over emphasis
on these things) then when it doesn't work for them, they leave. They end up with a false
expectation of God. They chase after experiences instead of a relationship with God.

For the record I do believe God provides and God heals and that He meets our needs. But
our needs and our wants are two different things. Many Christian were fed to the lions and
persecuted and Peter was crucified, do you think any of them wanted that! Do you think
Job wanted his family destroyed and wanted to lose everything.

To give you a more balanced view here are some examples.

1) A fantastic lady who currently leads a women's ministry across the UK and has done lots of
missionary work had a serious car accident a number of years ago. She ended up quadriplegic.

People really prayed and so did she, after several months she got the use of her upper body back
but was still in a wheelchair with no feeling in her legs. During that time she learnt much about
patience, humility, judging, faith, priorities, leaning on God. Then some years later the rest of
her body was healed.

She was ecstatic but she questioned God as to why it had taken so long.
She felt God told her that while she was only interested in her body, her spirit was of more
importance to Him. Now as I say she leads an amazing women's ministry and that might not
have been possible without the lessons learnt and the spiritual growth while in the wheel chair.
She says this herself when she comes to our church, this is her own testimony.
Did God cause the crash, absolutely not but what Satan meant for destruction, God turned
around for good. Is God faithful Yes. Is He true to His word Yes.

However if she had been in a WOF church they would have told her she must be unbelieving
or not living in a right relationship with God.

2) At age 37 I became extremely ill with Graves' disease, overactive thyroid. My levels were off the
scale they could not measure them they just plug 100 plus (should have been between 12-16).
For first two and a half years I had to go to hospital every 6 weeks for checks they could not get
the balance right. I had doctors urging me to have radioactive iodine treatment. Basically you
swallow a radioactive tablet and it chemically destroys the thyroid gland. You then end up
underactive and end up taking thyroxine for life.

I kept refusing the treatment as I felt God was telling me I would be healed. This wasn't
a false expectation from man. This was a real expectation from God. Then one night I
had a dream (God often speaks to me in dreams). It was of a man with dark curly hair
he came to me in the dream and said it was coming to an end. That's all nothing else.

Next time I went to hospital I was told my bloods were the best they had been! It took
another year of going back and forwards before everything was completely normal so
even then it was a gradual healing. But that dream was the turning point.
Yet WOF would have told me I should have been instantly healed and when I was
eventually healed they would have claimed it was their faith teaching, but this was
entirely God and not man.

3) My elderly aunt who I care for was hospitalised 3 times last year. Then in Oct last
year she ended up in hospital again, I was told there was no hope she was dying.
To go home and leave my phone on, they would tell me when her heart stopped.

I had a dream that a man was bending over her in hospital sprinkling her with water.
He had his head bent down so I could not see his face but I believe he may have been an
angel. Next day I took some oil to hospital and put it on her.

Four days later she was still alive so the hospital began to treat her as a patient rather than a
dying person. The original issue likely to cause death began to resolve itself but she was
still very ill with many other things. They discovered she had two very mild strokes, she had
reduced kidney function below 20%. The catherter caused severe water infections. She had
delirium was hallucinating.

It took 12 weeks before she came home, even then it was a good 6 months before
she was back to her normal self. The hospital did in the natural what they could do.
God did in the supernatural what they could not. It was a gradual mixed healing.
She still has many health issues but God has been good to us. As a result of her
illnesses we are getting so much more help than we ever did before. She is doing
well despite her various medical issues. All that happened without the benefit of
WOF doctrine. It happened because it was God's will and plan. Yet WOF would
say only they know the truth about healing.

I could give numerous other examples where I have had warnings of things.
Or where healings have taken place some instant some delayed.
All have been under the amazing loving provision of God. I could also give many examples
where people are not healed.

Just simple trust in God and His promises and simple prayers are the key. Sometimes
prayers said out of desperation. The key I think is being real before God, not just
repeating verses parrot fashion like some kind of mantra or good luck charm.
You don't get faith by speaking words. It's deeper than that it's about having a
relationship with Jesus and surrending up the real you to God. That's why
WOF does not work. The bible is not a good luck charm.

Sometimes we are not healed God knows the reasons why. But I know
our spiritual state and emotional state are important to God, it's better to
be healed spiritually and spend eternity with Him, than to be healed physically
and be lost.

Re the issue of blessings and prosperity. God has always gotten me through regardless
of circumstances. I'm no millionaire, I live in a rented council house so don't own my
own home. I'm in work but have had a spell of unemployment.

Im definately not physically rich! But God's provision does not guarantee physical
prosperity it never did. The riches in Christ are spiritual!

Miri · Nov 28, 2016

Ps I see a lot of talk on this thread and the other, but very few examples.
Talk is easy isn't it.

PeterJens · Nov 28, 2016

See now that I myself am he!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.
I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear:
As surely as I live forever,
when I sharpen my flashing sword
and my hand grasps it in judgment,
I will take vengeance on my adversaries
and repay those who hate me.
I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
while my sword devours flesh:
the blood of the slain and the captives,
the heads of the enemy leaders.

Deut 32:39-42

I will heap calamities on them
and spend my arrows against them.
I will send wasting famine against them,
consuming pestilence and deadly plague;
I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts,
the venom of vipers that glide in the dust.
In the street the sword will make them childless;
in their homes terror will reign.
The young men and young women will perish,
the infants and those with gray hair.
I said I would scatter them
and erase their name from human memory,
but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy,
lest the adversary misunderstand
and say, ‘Our hand has triumphed;
the Lord has not done all this.’

Deut 32:23-27

This is God, the Lord of judgement and righteousness. He bring judgement on sinners,
after many years of blessing, when the gates of heaven were opened but man used it
only for his own ends.

Finding this place where we see God is difficult, because unless we feel loved and secure
in Christ, how can we dare to look upon the word God brings. This is no horror film,
on worst case situation, this is our King celebrating both who He is, His victory with His
people, and bringing justice against His enemies.

The way of fools seems right to them, but the wise listen to advice.
Prov 12:15

Fools show their annoyance at once, but the prudent overlook an insult.
Prov 12:16

LaurenTM · Nov 28, 2016

Whassup said:

because someone...and she is far from the only one...understands how to properly dig for truth in the word, you come along and make the absurd statement that she may not believe God is good?

hey ~ the rhetoric in this thread is wild and flaming in all directions at anyone who dares to post scripture...that means you and all those defending WOF

I am not defending Angela...she can do that herself...I am remarking on the type of posts engendered by those who refute the op and yet do not offer ANY proof to the contrary!

emotions do not trump the word...and lies...cause accusing people of not believing God or saying people here have a bad relationship with God etc...are lies

Jesus has been known to say 'oh ye of little faith'

but reading the knee jerk responses, let me say 'oh ye of little understanding'

your post is one big accusation and a false one! God's promises DO NOT GROW STRONGER!!

what does that even mean? the Bible says God's promises are yea and amen...God's promises do not change...what changes is the human element and our relationship .. this is just emotional blah blah blah and deception and WOF talk...accusing and denying at the same time

accusing falsely and denying the scripture that points out your errors!

Yeah? WHAT have you been doing? if the word cannot convince, I doubt anyone can...there are people running around on this planet so deceived by what they think is God, and it isn't, that you and others who go off an emotional sprees, have no clue ... no clue whatsoever!!

you say things like 'God's dear Son'...really? like maybe only YOU think that? see...that is another error...thinking no one but you and those who agree with your 'experience' have the goods or better love or are closer to God

This, this line of reasoning of yours is what shuts people out...YOU shut people out that God loves because of your righteousness in what you believe

the self righteousness and patent neglect of truth in your put down of the op, is a TRUE reflection of someone who,while talking about YOUR love for God, forgets that YOU are not the yardstick or measure for God's heart nor the big ole sword of truth you fancy yourself to be

oh goody...you are a citizen of God's kingdom...that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU BELIEVE UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS

as most people here do, sorry, but what you have is actually your own private fiefdom...the actual kingdom of God has a much bigger and varied population than you can conceive of in your angry diatribe of 'so there'

Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Miri

Guest

Miri

Guest

Banned

LaurenTM

Guest