Tongues Again???

[presidente]

Many people with the ability to read and comprehend the passage also conclude that interpretation came by means of a supernatural ability. Moody Press is not known for being part of the Charismatic movement.


Here is what the Moody Handbook of Theology says on page 285 https://books.google.co.id/books?id...was a supernatural gift' the reverend&f=false


"The gift of interpretation of tongues involved the supernatural ability of someone int he assembly to interpret hte foreign language spoken by one who had the gift of tongues. "


Paul wrote that if he prayed with his spirit, his understanding was unfruitful. And why would someone who speaks in tongues need to pray to interpret if he alreayd knows the language.


I wrote,

You would not oppose 'Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge' and '...covet to prophesy and forbid not to speak with tongues.'

I am always accused of forbidding tongues. That is a ridiculous accusation

Did the part about forbidding to speak your tongues prick your conscience and cause you to react? The first part of that says to covet to prophesy. I don't see you demonstrating any obedience to that commend.

 

[nowyouseem033]

Tongues is simply known languages unknown by the speaker. Not this random gibberish heard today. Paul spoke in tongues. The tongues he spoke were Hebrew, Latin, Greek, and possibly more. Take a look at the first instance where tongues occur. The day of Pentecost people heard them speak in there OWN LANGUAGE. Whats annoying is people making a huge doctrine even worse a movement over tongues which is only mentioned three times in the whole bible.

 

[stonesoffire]

1. Well, it happened historically, from the 3rd century till the 19th century, speaking in tongues virtually did not exist. You can say it was hidden or something, I do not know.

2. So you believe that tongues and knowledge or prophecy will cease when entering heaven? Why?

i said perhaps. But, the scripture comes to mind that when we see Him, we shall be like Him for we will see Him as He is.

 

[trofimus]

WHAT UTTER NONSENSE!

It's a pity you can't divide the Word of God correctly because of your spiritual myopia!

You rubbish the spiritual gifts which cost the Lord Jesus SO MUCH to get and give to the Church! Acts 2v23-33, 4v7-11

Your aggressive response is totally useless.

 

[trofimus]

like i said, my school has the study not me, get it yourself. ;D

In that case, do not argument by something you cant show.

 

[trofimus]

"The frontal lobe plays a large role in voluntary movement. It houses the primary motor cortex which regulates activities like walking.

The function of the frontal lobe involves the ability to project future consequences resulting from current actions, the choice between good and bad actions (or better and best) (also known as conscience), the override and suppression of socially unacceptable responses, and the determination of similarities and differences between things or events.

The frontal lobe also plays an important part in integrating longer non-task based memories stored across the brain. These are often memories associated with emotions derived from input from the brain's limbic system. The frontal lobe modifies those emotions to generally fit socially acceptable norms.

Psychological tests that measure frontal lobe function include finger tapping (as the frontal lobe controls voluntary movement), the Wisconsin Card Sorting Test, and measures of language and numeracy skills."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe

OK, maybe its activity decreases when speaking in so called "tongues". It quite makes sense.

I would rather try to hide this fact, being a Charismatic, though.

 

[Grace777x70]

There seems to be some that in church history talk about others speaking in tongues.


Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church

Printable PDF Version
Historical evidence of speaking in tongues in the early church from the writings of Eusebius, Irenaeus, Chrysostom of Constantinople, and Augustine of Hippo…

A.D. 33 - The day of Pentecost: Jews only

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ACTS 2:1-4

A.D. 41 - At Caesarea: Gentiles

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." ACTS 10:44-46

A.D. 54 - At Ephesus: Gentile church

"And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost... And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." ACTS 19:1-6

A.D. - At Corinth: Gentile Chruch

"Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of Spiritual gifts, see that ye may excel to the edifying of the church... Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret... I thank my God that I (Paul) speak with tongues more than ye all." 1 CORINTHIANS 14:12-18

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):

Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:

Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:

The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:

Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:

Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

"THIS IS THAT..."

"But Peter... lifted up his voice and said: This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh." ACTS 2:16-17

What is "this"? This is what happened in the upper room on that first Pentecostal Sunday:

1. The fire of God appeared.
2. The sound of God's Spirit was heard.
3. They were all filled.
4. They all spoke in tongues.

What is "that"? That, said Peter, is what has caused this - namely, the Spirit of God poured out as promised.
Not a word from the Old or New Testaments suggests that this outpouring would be limited to one day. Bible teaching is to the contrary:

1. The experience was for all (JOEL 2:28).
2. Tongues was to be the sign (See MARK 16:17; ISAIAH 28:11-12; 1 CORINTHIANS 14:21).
3. The experience was seen and heard (ACTS 2:33).
4. It was continued throughout all generations (ACTS 2:39).

Why "this" is "that"? This is that simply because the Holy Spirit was identified with the experience of tongues. Take this scriptural confirmation away and we indulge in guesswork of the most dangerous nature. Whether in the house of Cornelius (ACTS 10:44), or at Ephesus (ACTS 19), the lack of THIS would have frustrated the receiving of THAT - namely the wonderful and satisfying gift of the Holy Spirit, with tongues.

Source: 'Revival Publications', Ballarat, Australia.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/evidence-speaking-tongues-early-church

 

[trofimus]

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:

The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

I see nothing abouth speaking in unknown tongues in the statement.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:

Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

It seems to me Chrysostom is talking about the days of apostles, except the last sentence.
Provide the source of this Chrysostom's quote, please.

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:


Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

Again, the actual source of this saying is missing.

What about the span between 400 AD and 1900 AD?

 

[wolfwint]

Have a witness that there are a few people out there who would receive help from just praying 30 minutes a day in tongues... I have 40 years of testimonies from my life and others about this. I know Paul used tongues more than anyone in his day and his life was fruitful.

Hi 88, from which tongues you are speaking? Which you received as sign of the baptism with the Holy Spirit, ore the tongues which you can recieve as gift like any other gift mentioned in Romans 12, 6 ff; 1. Cor.12,4 ff; and 28 ff; Ephesians 4, 11+12; ?

It is remarkable that it is taught since the Penetecostal movement began in around 1900, that speaking in tongues is to receive as sign for be baptised with the Holy Spirit!

 

[Grace777x70]

I see nothing abouth speaking in unknown tongues in the statement.



It seems to me Chrysostom is talking about the days of apostles, except the last sentence.
Provide the source of this Chrysostom's quote, please.



Again, the actual source of this saying is missing.

What about the span between 400 AD and 1900 AD?

There are lot's of sources on the net but I'm not about to track them all down as I have been speaking in tongues since the time I believed it was for us today and it will just be a useless endeavor anyway.

The natural mind of man will not understand these spiritual truths until they are revealed by the Holy Spirit to us. This applies to all of us in every area of truth. To go looking for every source is a complete waste of time as they would still not give us understanding in this or any other area. That is the Holy Spirit's job - to reveal the things of God to us.

Unfortunately there are many mis-uses of tongues which causes our natural minds to be against them but mis-use does not mean non-use. That is the danger of trying to get understanding from our natural minds and also the danger of not being taught how to use the gift in a manner that doesn't cause others to stumble.

Anyway, I was just giving out what others have said about the past in church history. Whether people believe in speaking in tongues is between them and their Lord. To me, someone saying that speaking in tongues is not real is on par with an atheist telling me Jesus is not real. Too late..I know Him.

 

[notuptome]

You simply misunderstand Roger. Before I was born again, I had fear that a spirit would take over my body. Might be from movies about ghosts that I watched as a kid.

Its not this way at all. Its emotional at times with great joy, or peace flooding in...and even power surging through us. All different experiences and all good. Holy Spirit is gentle.

Fair enough but tongues have nothing to do with praying in the Holy Spirit. Fervent effectual prayer does not require prayer tongues. I really do not, in my relationship with God, feel like there is anything I need to say to Him that cannot be said in my native language. I had a good relationship with my earthly father and I was able to speak directly with and to him about problems and concerns. Why would my God Who is the Creator of the Universe be any less assessable to me? I enter His presence clothed in the righteousness of His Son Jesus.

The vail of the temple was rent in twain. I now have access to the holy of holies through the blood of Christ and His righteousness imputed to me. I can enter into the very presence of God and commune with Him like His Son has communed with Him.

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

If the end times events are reserved for Israel then why does God REPEATEDLY say they will be poured out upon the world?

Those who think it is just for Israel think we gentiles are going to get a free pass for our disobedience and disbelief.

God does not hand out free passes, other than for salvation and even that is not free in that we have to take a positive step to accept it..

The church is sealed unto the day of redemption. The church as in individual believers will stand before Jesus and give an account for what they have done since they were saved. Their works are judged but not the believers.

Israel has been given into captivity many times as judgment from God because of their unbelief. The tribulation is the last time God will chastise them for their unbelief. The rest of the world less the church will come against Israel to destroy them from off the face of the earth. God will destroy all who come against Israel when Jesus descends from the clouds and enters the eastern gate into the city of Jerusalem.

The grace of God by which we are saved is a free pass to all who believe. His robes for mine. What a wonderful exchange.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[trofimus]

Anyway, I was just giving out what others have said about the past in church history.

Yes. And I said the sources are missing. So nobody can verify what you have given to us.

Its like quoting unknown Scripture without telling the chapter and verse.

 

[notuptome]

In this I believe you are correct.

Except for the revival of tongues of course. Where are you getting this in Joel?

Joel chapter 2.

Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

While the verses state that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on all flesh this is in reference to salvation. The dreaming of dreams and the visions are only for the sons and daughters of Israel. This is the portion of scripture that Peter cited and stated was only partially fulfilled at Pentecost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[hornetguy]

There seems to be some that in church history talk about others speaking in tongues.


Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church

Printable PDF Version
Historical evidence of speaking in tongues in the early church from the writings of Eusebius, Irenaeus, Chrysostom of Constantinople, and Augustine of Hippo…

A.D. 33 - The day of Pentecost: Jews only

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ACTS 2:1-4

A.D. 41 - At Caesarea: Gentiles

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." ACTS 10:44-46

A.D. 54 - At Ephesus: Gentile church

"And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost... And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." ACTS 19:1-6

A.D. - At Corinth: Gentile Chruch

"Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of Spiritual gifts, see that ye may excel to the edifying of the church... Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret... I thank my God that I (Paul) speak with tongues more than ye all." 1 CORINTHIANS 14:12-18

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):

Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:

Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:

The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:

Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:

Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

"THIS IS THAT..."

"But Peter... lifted up his voice and said: This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh." ACTS 2:16-17

What is "this"? This is what happened in the upper room on that first Pentecostal Sunday:

1. The fire of God appeared.
2. The sound of God's Spirit was heard.
3. They were all filled.
4. They all spoke in tongues.

What is "that"? That, said Peter, is what has caused this - namely, the Spirit of God poured out as promised.
Not a word from the Old or New Testaments suggests that this outpouring would be limited to one day. Bible teaching is to the contrary:

1. The experience was for all (JOEL 2:28).
2. Tongues was to be the sign (See MARK 16:17; ISAIAH 28:11-12; 1 CORINTHIANS 14:21).
3. The experience was seen and heard (ACTS 2:33).
4. It was continued throughout all generations (ACTS 2:39).

Why "this" is "that"? This is that simply because the Holy Spirit was identified with the experience of tongues. Take this scriptural confirmation away and we indulge in guesswork of the most dangerous nature. Whether in the house of Cornelius (ACTS 10:44), or at Ephesus (ACTS 19), the lack of THIS would have frustrated the receiving of THAT - namely the wonderful and satisfying gift of the Holy Spirit, with tongues.

Source: 'Revival Publications', Ballarat, Australia.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/evidence-speaking-tongues-early-church

Those are some good quotes... As I read through them, however, I saw nothing to indicate the believers were speaking any kind of "angelic" tongue. It sounds very much as if they were given the power to speak in other "known" languages, that were unknown previously to them... one of those quoted even mentioned some of the languages that were spoken.

To me, THIS is where the value would be in speaking an "unknown" tongue... it would prove beyond a doubt (just as it did at Pentcost) that something miraculous had indeed happened. Babbling away in some gibberish that NOBODY understands would NOT impress unbelievers.... in fact, would likely drive them away.

It would be much the same as if I, a semi-redneck that grew up in west Texas, suddenly started speaking Mandarin... when all my friends and family KNEW that I had never studied it.... it would be miraculous. If I suddenly started just babbling away, carrying on a conversation in gibberish, people would wonder if I was on some kind of strange new drug, or if I had a brain tumor....

I think speaking in unknown languages was used by God to reach those that were unbelievers, and to spread the word that "there is something TO this thing called Christianity"...

I firmly believe that tongues CAN be used today, but not the type of thing that we see on TV and in videos... crazy babbling and shouting/laughing....

 

[notuptome]

Those are some good quotes... As I read through them, however, I saw nothing to indicate the believers were speaking any kind of "angelic" tongue. It sounds very much as if they were given the power to speak in other "known" languages, that were unknown previously to them... one of those quoted even mentioned some of the languages that were spoken.

To me, THIS is where the value would be in speaking an "unknown" tongue... it would prove beyond a doubt (just as it did at Pentcost) that something miraculous had indeed happened. Babbling away in some gibberish that NOBODY understands would NOT impress unbelievers.... in fact, would likely drive them away.

It would be much the same as if I, a semi-redneck that grew up in west Texas, suddenly started speaking Mandarin... when all my friends and family KNEW that I had never studied it.... it would be miraculous. If I suddenly started just babbling away, carrying on a conversation in gibberish, people would wonder if I was on some kind of strange new drug, or if I had a brain tumor....

I think speaking in unknown languages was used by God to reach those that were unbelievers, and to spread the word that "there is something TO this thing called Christianity"...

I firmly believe that tongues CAN be used today, but not the type of thing that we see on TV and in videos... crazy babbling and shouting/laughing....

Tongues were a sign for the Jews. The Jews knew from their history that when they went into captivity they were taken by peoples who spoke languages they did not understand. God was telling Israel that they were once again heading for bondage and captivity when they rejected Jesus as their Messiah.

There is no modern context for tongues. Does God bless missionaries with the ability to speak other languages to give forth the gospel? I say yes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

Those are some good quotes... As I read through them, however, I saw nothing to indicate the believers were speaking any kind of "angelic" tongue. It sounds very much as if they were given the power to speak in other "known" languages, that were unknown previously to them... one of those quoted even mentioned some of the languages that were spoken.

To me, THIS is where the value would be in speaking an "unknown" tongue... it would prove beyond a doubt (just as it did at Pentcost) that something miraculous had indeed happened. Babbling away in some gibberish that NOBODY understands would NOT impress unbelievers.... in fact, would likely drive them away.

It would be much the same as if I, a semi-redneck that grew up in west Texas, suddenly started speaking Mandarin... when all my friends and family KNEW that I had never studied it.... it would be miraculous. If I suddenly started just babbling away, carrying on a conversation in gibberish, people would wonder if I was on some kind of strange new drug, or if I had a brain tumor....

I think speaking in unknown languages was used by God to reach those that were unbelievers, and to spread the word that "there is something TO this thing called Christianity"...

I firmly believe that tongues CAN be used today, but not the type of thing that we see on TV and in videos... crazy babbling and shouting/laughing....

I agree that there are a lot of people speaking in tongues and doing it in the flesh - what I mean by that is - people can control "how" and "when" they speak in tongues.

I speak in tongues more these days then I do in English because I am home a lot for this season. When I am in a church service I always speak in tongues to the Lord but you wouldn't hear me. I am controlling my volume level. It is an act of my "will".

Shouting in tongues is just the flesh or emotions although the tongue itself is real.

As far as the "angelic tongues" Paul says in 1 Cor. 13 "If I speak in the tongue of men and of angels"...this indicates to me that there are angelic tongues but no one knows this for sure and the truth is that it is irrevelant whether there are or not.

For people to come out and say for a fact - "There are no angelic tongues"..is just pure speculation and they are saying that for a specific reason. If they were 1/2 truthful - they would at the very least have to admit that Paul does seem to say there are tongues of angels. There are tongues of men obviously.

I have heard of many stories where people have started to speak in tongues and others heard them in their own language like you described about the Mandrin.

There is definitely too where the person is speaking not to men but to God. This is a devotional personal speaking to the Lord. It can't get any clearer and remain honest that there is speaking in tongues to our Lord and Father and Paul says "I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also".

1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. (praying to God edifies the believer )

Here Paul says that he will pray with the spirit and with the mind. Two different ways of praying. Both of these are activated by the "will".

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. ( This bothers the natural mind of man )

[SUP]15 [/SUP] What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

Speaking in tongues to the un-renewed natural mind of man whether we are believers or unbelievers is complete foolishness to us because this truth as all truth is spiritually discerned and revealed by the Holy Spirit only. It does not come to our natural thinking processes.

 

[hornetguy]

Shouting in tongues is just the flesh or emotions although the tongue itself is real.

and here, brother, is my biggest question.... how does anyone KNOW those "tongues" are real? I'm not questioning YOUR gift/ability to speak in tongues.. but for those that put on a big show of it, how would you know if what they are doing is real, or not? If no one can legitimately interpret what they are "saying", then it is not an edification for anyone, and is actually more likely a detriment to worship.

 

[Grace777x70]

and here, brother, is my biggest question.... how does anyone KNOW those "tongues" are real? I'm not questioning YOUR gift/ability to speak in tongues.. but for those that put on a big show of it, how would you know if what they are doing is real, or not? If no one can legitimately interpret what they are "saying", then it is not an edification for anyone, and is actually more likely a detriment to worship.

I would say that they are "real" but it's them doing things in the flesh. They are baby Christians. It can certainly be a detriment to worship too.

I don't think we can judge whether it is a real tongue or not because if it is a devotional tongue they are talking to God and no man understands it. 1 Cor 14:2 In the case you are describing - it sounds like they are shouting to God...lol

There are thousands of different languages that have been on the earth.


Some of this depends on our background too. A lot of black churches are full of emotion and that is the way they express themselves and thus this manifests in demonstrative ways. There are some other types of churches that are dead emotionally as if they are just going through the motions. Just like there are different types of people - I believe there are different types of churches but all one body.

I believe there is a growth process in anything that is of the spirit. One thing for sure is that speaking in tongues does not mean people are more spiritual than anyone else nor actually more knowledgeable in areas then others.

Sometimes I have seen more fruit of the spirit in non-tongue speakers then I did in the tongues speaking ones as well as more fruit in some tongue speaking believers than non-speaking.

I spoke in tongues for decades before I even really knew the gospel of the grace of God. All truth comes by revelation of the Holy Spirit and there is a growing up in all truths as well and speaking in tongues is one small area that we all need to grow up in.

 

[Grace777x70]

I will tell this story about a guy that had hired a tour guide for a personal tour around Israel.

They had stopped at a hill overlooking a valley which looked like a scenic "look-out" type of place. The man there felt the urge to pray in the spirit and he spoke quietly in tongues. He prayed for a short time and he noticed the tour guy looking at him in a funny way but he said nothing.

A year later the same man came back and got the same tour guide. The guide told him about a bus of Israeli school girls that had been attacked at that very spot earlier after they had been there last year where he had prayed in tongues. Of course the man had no idea what he was praying about with his natural mind ( 1 Cor. 14:2, 14 )

The guide said that all of a sudden the attackers took off even though there was no one around - they took off as if they were frightened by something although there was nothing there to stop them from shooting the girls. The tour guide said that your prayer worked.

The man who had prayed in tongues asked him how he knew that. The tour guide said that when you prayed you spoke quietly in a Samaritan dialect language which I knew and you asked God to protect this place from death and killing and that no harm would come to those that visit this place.

This is a prime example of how tongues can bring about the purposes of God without our minds being involved. When we pray with our spirit in tongues - it speaks mysteries to God and brings about the purposes of God on the earth. Praying with our mind can do the same thing but in cases like this - the mind knows nothing of the future. God lives outside of time and He knew.