What’s involved in doing God’s will unto salvation?
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The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sins. 1 John 1:7 - We all need to repent and believe the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Change the way you are thinking for life and living and rely on what Christ has done for us. - this is called "believing the gospel"...."being obedient to the faith".
Hebrews 9:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 9:11-14 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
It's time to stop our own dead works and believe in what Christ has done for us. It's time to do what the Lord Jesus said - Repent and believe the gospel.
Change the way you are thinking for life and living and rely on what Christ has done for us. - this is called "believing the gospel"...."being obedient to the faith".
Hebrews 9:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 9:11-14 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
It's time to stop our own dead works and believe in what Christ has done for us. It's time to do what the Lord Jesus said - Repent and believe the gospel.
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EG above logic is simple. Carry on living as you are, just believe Christ has done
everything. So you just rest where you are.
A what point is this not just buying a ticket to go somewhere and just getting
on the train and waiting for it to leave.
You are not called to do anything but get on board. The train does everything.
Is there anything in scripture that would give you this concept? Nope, nowhere.
It is all about action a doing of something because something else has happened.
Now to react and start loving because Christ loved you is working for your salvation.
In this world doing nothing is actually doing the right thing. Odd that the creator
of life intended us to be totally passive according to EG.
everything. So you just rest where you are.
A what point is this not just buying a ticket to go somewhere and just getting
on the train and waiting for it to leave.
You are not called to do anything but get on board. The train does everything.
Is there anything in scripture that would give you this concept? Nope, nowhere.
It is all about action a doing of something because something else has happened.
Now to react and start loving because Christ loved you is working for your salvation.
In this world doing nothing is actually doing the right thing. Odd that the creator
of life intended us to be totally passive according to EG.
I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.
What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.
Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.
Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.
I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.
Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.
Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15
The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.
Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.
We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30
Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.
What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.
Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.
Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.
I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.
Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.
Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15
The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.
Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.
Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.
We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30
Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.
Here the lie. As a follower of Christ you can do evil by doing good because you want to
do good and not Christ in you doing good.
The problem is black and white. People do not do good because they do not love and
are wrapped up in bitterness, hatred, hurt, and revenge.
If Jesus has opened your heart, your are dwelling in the Spirit, all the good things you
are doing are from Him.
Now the enemy would want you to stop doing everything. Learning to love and thinking
the best of people, working for the ends that bring blessing is hard, but this is our calling
and in our struggling we reach out to Christ who gives us the inspiration and power to
continue.
But these teachers would have you stop, lean on your own understanding and start judging
oneself and others, over things that have nothing to do with the Lord or His ways.
This is truly not of God and is the seed of the enemy and bitterness.
do good and not Christ in you doing good.
The problem is black and white. People do not do good because they do not love and
are wrapped up in bitterness, hatred, hurt, and revenge.
If Jesus has opened your heart, your are dwelling in the Spirit, all the good things you
are doing are from Him.
Now the enemy would want you to stop doing everything. Learning to love and thinking
the best of people, working for the ends that bring blessing is hard, but this is our calling
and in our struggling we reach out to Christ who gives us the inspiration and power to
continue.
But these teachers would have you stop, lean on your own understanding and start judging
oneself and others, over things that have nothing to do with the Lord or His ways.
This is truly not of God and is the seed of the enemy and bitterness.
E
here is the cruxt of the issue.
Some people thinks there is some good in him, That he can of his own ability do something, anything, that God will say, wow. Look at him (or her). I knew he had some good in him, Yes (whatever their name is). Enter the pearly gates.
This attitude is not a repentant attitude, It has failed to repent. it still seeks after self. it still seeks after glory It will not find God (in reality) because it still thinks it is good..
when all is said and done, It gets glory, Not God.
no peter, I see your break from the site has not opened your eyes. grace is not speaking against good works, he ( and I ) and THE BIBLE say that our good works do not save us, they are a result of it.
when I was unsaved, I believed in God, Christ, virgin birth, the resurrection , etc.. , I just did not care, Jesus was not my personal Lord and Savior. when I made that decision, it changed my behavior. I did not change my behavior so that Christ would accept me, I changed BECAUSE He did.
when I was unsaved, I believed in God, Christ, virgin birth, the resurrection , etc.. , I just did not care, Jesus was not my personal Lord and Savior. when I made that decision, it changed my behavior. I did not change my behavior so that Christ would accept me, I changed BECAUSE He did.
[h=2]
What’s involved in doing God’s will unto salvation?[/h]
How come we seem to be saying the same thing except you cannot accept God has
done a good work in you.
"In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."
Phil 1:4-6
Paul is expressing his delight in the Philippians that they are responding to the gospel
and following Christ. It is a good work that has taken root.
Now gb9, I am recognising this work in me and my brothers and sisters.
It appears you do not believe there is such a thing. If not, why are you a christian?
You could be anything, it makes no difference, you are as you are.
Your history like many others was being very religious, but Christ was not your Lord.
Now I understand this in many peoples lives, but it does not make all believers who
are not like you, are like you used to be. But I would question what you believe to
be a great change, when condemnation and accusation follows you so closely.
You have had a conversion experience, but I do not know to what, because you
oppose the fundamentals of the faith. Jesus is our all in all. If He calls us to do
anything, why would we question it?
And thankyou gb9, you changed your behaviour. "YOU" changed, it was a choice,
a reaction to knowing Christ and His love. I likewise have changed because of this
love, so how come you treat me like an enemy? Is it because you still are not following
Christ, just now have a cop-out as to why you do not love?
These conversations remind me of two men agreeing with each other, but both are
agreeing with something different, but refuse to admit it, and blame the other for being
wrong, without using appropriate language to define it.
When we meet Jesus, we are always sinners saved by grace. Without His forgiveness
no one enters heaven, but equally without the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and
the fruit of this work we are deceived.
I get the feeling many doubt God has worked in them, and fear to rest on the promise of
reality coming to their lives, because they do not know what this actually is.
Open hearts, walking with ones emotions being on display and letting Christs love to flow.
But maybe when hearts open, the fear is bile will flow, and Christs love is far off. In this
case there is a problem, which needs to be resolved. We are always to humble ourselves
at the foot of the cross and know the reality of being loved and accepted and learn to walk
with an open heart. This is what it means to be free, to not be scared of what is within, or
have rages that run free, or times of self pity, or shaking out of pure dread and loneliness.
But you do not talk like this. What are you so scared of facing within?
Jesus has won the victory, know it in your heart.
done a good work in you.
"In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."
Phil 1:4-6
Paul is expressing his delight in the Philippians that they are responding to the gospel
and following Christ. It is a good work that has taken root.
Now gb9, I am recognising this work in me and my brothers and sisters.
It appears you do not believe there is such a thing. If not, why are you a christian?
You could be anything, it makes no difference, you are as you are.
Your history like many others was being very religious, but Christ was not your Lord.
Now I understand this in many peoples lives, but it does not make all believers who
are not like you, are like you used to be. But I would question what you believe to
be a great change, when condemnation and accusation follows you so closely.
You have had a conversion experience, but I do not know to what, because you
oppose the fundamentals of the faith. Jesus is our all in all. If He calls us to do
anything, why would we question it?
And thankyou gb9, you changed your behaviour. "YOU" changed, it was a choice,
a reaction to knowing Christ and His love. I likewise have changed because of this
love, so how come you treat me like an enemy? Is it because you still are not following
Christ, just now have a cop-out as to why you do not love?
These conversations remind me of two men agreeing with each other, but both are
agreeing with something different, but refuse to admit it, and blame the other for being
wrong, without using appropriate language to define it.
When we meet Jesus, we are always sinners saved by grace. Without His forgiveness
no one enters heaven, but equally without the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and
the fruit of this work we are deceived.
I get the feeling many doubt God has worked in them, and fear to rest on the promise of
reality coming to their lives, because they do not know what this actually is.
Open hearts, walking with ones emotions being on display and letting Christs love to flow.
But maybe when hearts open, the fear is bile will flow, and Christs love is far off. In this
case there is a problem, which needs to be resolved. We are always to humble ourselves
at the foot of the cross and know the reality of being loved and accepted and learn to walk
with an open heart. This is what it means to be free, to not be scared of what is within, or
have rages that run free, or times of self pity, or shaking out of pure dread and loneliness.
But you do not talk like this. What are you so scared of facing within?
Jesus has won the victory, know it in your heart.
The above is a person not listening.
A friend of a man in answer to the question how do I get to heaven, he opens a map and shows
the way.
Now the man reads the map and starts to walk along the way.
A stranger comes up to him and says, "Why are you going along the way? It is all wrong
you are only able to go along the way if God empowers and sends you, you are just trying
to save yourself. Stay with us and wait for God to lead you."
The man replies, "I am on the way, God sent me along the way and told me how to walk
along the way. Come join me and let us walk together."
But the stranger replies, "You evil religious man. How dare you believe you are worthy to
walk, you are resting on your own efforts to reach heaven, which proves you do not know
anything."
There are two worlds here, one of heaven and one of religion. The one of heaven says,
you walk because God has enabled you, the one of religion says, you fail in walking because
only God can enable you to.
So who is of heaven and who is of this world if you find yourself following Christ?
Now I know because of the histories of people here how they will interpret these realities, but this
is Johns conclusion.
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2
Someone said once their mission was to test believers to find out if they really followed Christ.
John is saying we can do this for ourselves. Where do you fit my friends?
Whatever the issue, God will bring the issue and the resolution to mind, just bring it to Christ.
A friend of a man in answer to the question how do I get to heaven, he opens a map and shows
the way.
Now the man reads the map and starts to walk along the way.
A stranger comes up to him and says, "Why are you going along the way? It is all wrong
you are only able to go along the way if God empowers and sends you, you are just trying
to save yourself. Stay with us and wait for God to lead you."
The man replies, "I am on the way, God sent me along the way and told me how to walk
along the way. Come join me and let us walk together."
But the stranger replies, "You evil religious man. How dare you believe you are worthy to
walk, you are resting on your own efforts to reach heaven, which proves you do not know
anything."
There are two worlds here, one of heaven and one of religion. The one of heaven says,
you walk because God has enabled you, the one of religion says, you fail in walking because
only God can enable you to.
So who is of heaven and who is of this world if you find yourself following Christ?
Now I know because of the histories of people here how they will interpret these realities, but this
is Johns conclusion.
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2
Someone said once their mission was to test believers to find out if they really followed Christ.
John is saying we can do this for ourselves. Where do you fit my friends?
Whatever the issue, God will bring the issue and the resolution to mind, just bring it to Christ.
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.
For the 100th time ...
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to co-operate with the Holy Spirit.
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to NOT habitually sin (w/o sincere repentance).
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to ENDURE in his/her faith until the end of life.
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to NOT take the horrendous mark of the beast.
FAILURE in any of these responsibilities cancels your salvation
(if you ever had it in the first place).
References for the above: the NT
For the 100th time ...
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to co-operate with the Holy Spirit.
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to NOT habitually sin (w/o sincere repentance).
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to ENDURE in his/her faith until the end of life.
The NT teaches man's accountability/responsibility ...
to NOT take the horrendous mark of the beast.
FAILURE in any of these responsibilities cancels your salvation
(if you ever had it in the first place).
References for the above: the NT
E
when someone claims they have to work, to do things, to save himself that is saying one must work to earn to be saved.
then when he judges a person who calls him out on it, and says he is not listening, he proves that he is the one who is not listening to himself.
do not come in saying you must do all these works to co operate with God, to climb on the bus, to peddle the bike etc etc. and then get mad when someone calls you out and asks you why you put more faith in self then God, and asks why you will not repent and allow God to save you..
then when he judges a person who calls him out on it, and says he is not listening, he proves that he is the one who is not listening to himself.
do not come in saying you must do all these works to co operate with God, to climb on the bus, to peddle the bike etc etc. and then get mad when someone calls you out and asks you why you put more faith in self then God, and asks why you will not repent and allow God to save you..
Linguistically the above sounds sensible except it is meaningless.
Let me say to go from one location to another I have to get on a bus.
I am saved by finding the bus and getting on it. The bus is saving me, and if I did not
get on the bus, I would not be saved.
But the bus is doing the work, and my getting on it means the work is effected in my life.
I am not taking away from the work of the bus, by getting on it. In fact if I did not get
on it, the work would be of no benefit to me.
To a deeply religious man, like EG, his hatred of actions, confirms any action means you
are saving yourself. But like I have pointed out so many times, it is just bad conceptual
language.
To be saved you have to believe. You can only believe if you have heared, and you can
only hear by doing something that takes you somewhere were people are sharing.
When you believe you need to then act upon this belief. All these things are actions
and are active not passive.
But the language of EG is so disfunctional, and so disrespectful of the listener, he speaks
his concepts without seeing they are totally empty, a contradiction, and only designed to
justify rejecting the commands of Christ.
Let me say to go from one location to another I have to get on a bus.
I am saved by finding the bus and getting on it. The bus is saving me, and if I did not
get on the bus, I would not be saved.
But the bus is doing the work, and my getting on it means the work is effected in my life.
I am not taking away from the work of the bus, by getting on it. In fact if I did not get
on it, the work would be of no benefit to me.
To a deeply religious man, like EG, his hatred of actions, confirms any action means you
are saving yourself. But like I have pointed out so many times, it is just bad conceptual
language.
To be saved you have to believe. You can only believe if you have heared, and you can
only hear by doing something that takes you somewhere were people are sharing.
When you believe you need to then act upon this belief. All these things are actions
and are active not passive.
But the language of EG is so disfunctional, and so disrespectful of the listener, he speaks
his concepts without seeing they are totally empty, a contradiction, and only designed to
justify rejecting the commands of Christ.
'Tis so because his thinking is dysfunctional.
It seems I have told him 100 times already ...
-- co-operating with the Holy Spirit is NOT works (*)
-- keeping/obeying Jesus' commandments is NOT works (*)
(*) It is just expected ... it is part of what true belief-faith is!
E.G. Hebrews tells us that disobedience is unbelief.
People like EG who choose not to obey: blame their disobedience on God
... because everything has been placed in His hands!
People like EG who choose not to obey: simply are in a state of UNBELIEF
... because they are living in disobedience to His commands!
It seems I have told him 100 times already ...
-- co-operating with the Holy Spirit is NOT works (*)
-- keeping/obeying Jesus' commandments is NOT works (*)
(*) It is just expected ... it is part of what true belief-faith is!
E.G. Hebrews tells us that disobedience is unbelief.
People like EG who choose not to obey: blame their disobedience on God
... because everything has been placed in His hands!
People like EG who choose not to obey: simply are in a state of UNBELIEF
... because they are living in disobedience to His commands!
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