GREASY GRACE?

[followjesus]

You're trying to turn 'not of works lest any boast' into works that must be performed in order to earn righteousness.

Your own theology is at odds with its own self.

Turning away from your own work and turning to the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to receive the Righteousness that is offered. By Grace through Faith.

Do you think that by turning away from your own work and trusting solely in Christ that He will somehow forget something and you will not be as righteous as you would have been had you 'helped' Him out?

My work is to do the will of God.

and why do you guys assume im changing or ommiting anytrhing. why can what im saying be suppoirted by vast amounts of scripture saying the exact same things, yet you guys quote a single vers and then Give explainations of hoe this verse omits all the vast scripture saying the same things i say?

Ive been saying paul taught the same principles, the same exact things Jesus taught. I can show you what Jesus said, and paul saying the same exact things regarding Judgement, repentance, obedience, Grace. as Jesus taught in the gospel. I can show you Jesus teaching the same things paul taught regarding His death and resurrection for Our sins. that the prophets spoke beforehand. why is the person who can show everything im saying with scripture, the person who is " changing things, or decieving folks? The words of Jesus Christ are the complete new covenant, He is the mediator. very clearly One name is the mediator Jesus. so explain then why you insist inm confused or somehow " boasting in myself" when MY ENTIRE MESSAGE REMAINS jESUS JESUS JESUS. BELIEVE jESUS, OBEY JESUS, LEARN FROM JESUS, TRUST IN JESUS ALOINE. you folks now consider that boasting in myself ?

Faith in Jesus, believes Jesus. He is the Only one that is able to save, and it has to be done His way because He is the One who suffered to conclude the old and bring the new. there is no argument to omit His words. and "Let every man who names the name of Christ depoart from iniquity.

anyways pauls own explaination of His preaching. funny He doesnt say " I taught all men everywhere to not notice thier own sin just ignore it and dont ever do the works worthy opf repentance because then grace is neglected. certain false doctrines, dont understand Grace. its not defined by webster, its defined by Jesus.

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

 

[FlSnookman7]

My work is to do the will of God.

and why do you guys assume im changing or ommiting anytrhing. why can what im saying be suppoirted by vast amounts of scripture saying the exact same things, yet you guys quote a single vers and then Give explainations of hoe this verse omits all the vast scripture saying the same things i say?

Ive been saying paul taught the same principles, the same exact things Jesus taught. I can show you what Jesus said, and paul saying the same exact things regarding Judgement, repentance, obedience, Grace. as Jesus taught in the gospel. I can show you Jesus teaching the same things paul taught regarding His death and resurrection for Our sins. that the prophets spoke beforehand. why is the person who can show everything im saying with scripture, the person who is " changing things, or decieving folks? The words of Jesus Christ are the complete new covenant, He is the mediator. very clearly One name is the mediator Jesus. so explain then why you insist inm confused or somehow " boasting in myself" when MY ENTIRE MESSAGE REMAINS jESUS JESUS JESUS. BELIEVE jESUS, OBEY JESUS, LEARN FROM JESUS, TRUST IN JESUS ALOINE. you folks now consider that boasting in myself ?

Faith in Jesus, believes Jesus. He is the Only one that is able to save, and it has to be done His way because He is the One who suffered to conclude the old and bring the new. there is no argument to omit His words. and "Let every man who names the name of Christ depoart from iniquity.

anyways pauls own explaination of His preaching. funny He doesnt say " I taught all men everywhere to not notice thier own sin just ignore it and dont ever do the works worthy opf repentance because then grace is neglected. certain false doctrines, dont understand Grace. its not defined by webster, its defined by Jesus.

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

I have posted many verses in context yet those who show little faith in Jesus finished work ignore them, then they post that no one uses scripture. Pitiful.

 

[Galatea]

What if the child abandons the Father though is more my question? and bruce eludes to alot of ides that arent in the word. How does this translate to losing earthly rewards and still inheriting eternal Life

ephesians 5:3-7 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them"

or even more clear

galatians 6:7-9 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

or yet the clearest

romans 2:5-11 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE: 8But unto them that are contentious, and DO NOT OBEY THE TRUTH, BUT OBEY UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, indignation and WRATH, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that DOETH EVIL, of the Jew first, and also of the GENTILE; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that WORKETH GOOD, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."


do we simply omit all of the many very clear things like this and then explain why it really doesnt mean what it says? im open to someone sharing the scriptures that actually say that our actions dont apply to eternal Life. but like the scripture you used there is dealing with doctrine.

1 coringthians 3:11-15 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

this is not a teaching about Judgement day, but paul explaining that Jesus is the only true foundation which i agree with 100 percent. that Jesus including every word he taught is the foundation of Christianity. the thing is with that though is that Jesus taught miuch concerning His return and much about Hearing Him and not obeying. at what point dpoes Grace change all the other words of instruction and warning? this is my whole issue with lifting Grace above Jesus. where do we Learn from scripture, things Like bruce explains constantly? ive asked several times for scripture saying things Like " sin will only be punished on earth you are saved in Gods Kingdom no matter what?"

that is kinda what you are saying isnt it? sin cant lose your salvayion for you, just earthly consequences to your sin?

what about a greedy person? how are they punished for idolatry on earth? a greedy person who gives nothing to the needs of others, How will they be punished on earth? truly the ot says little very little about after death, Jesus came with those things and it really is clearly taught through He and His apostles, the principle of eternal Judgement.

We disagree about the meaning of I Corinthians 3. I do not believe any of us are lifting grace above Jesus. It is through Jesus that we have the grace of God. Without the Lord Jesus, we would have no grace.

No, sin does not only lose Earthly rewards, but Heavenly ones as well. But sin does not take away your salvation. There are many verses about the saving power of Christ.

Ephesians 4:30-32 "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice; And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

Saved people can grieve the Holy Spirit, and do all these things, but the person is still saved.

II Timothy 1: 7-14 "For God hath not given us the spirit of FEAR; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Be not therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Who hath saved us, and called us with and holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE AND GRACE, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who HATH ABOLISHED DEATH, and hath brought life and IMMORTALITY to light through the gospel:

Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

For the cause which I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that HE IS ABLE TO KEEP that which I have committed to Him against that day. (notice that Christ is doing the keeping, not Paul- also note that Paul says he knows who he has believed, not what he has done to keep his salvation).

Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

That good thing which was committed unto thee KEEP BY THE HOLY SPIRIT which dwelleth in us.

How are greedy people punished on Earth? Idolaters? I don't know. I would suppose the chastisement is different for different children. One thing I do know is that being out of fellowship with God, that chasm between is a judgment in itself. David speaks of this when he cries out to the Lord, "Restore unto me the joy of my salvation."

Jesus says in John 10 "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them ETERNAL life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.

My Father, which gave them me, is GREATER THAN ALL; and NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND.

I and my Father are one."

Capitalization is for emphasis, not for shouting.

 

[followjesus]

Curious, which parts of the Bible are not of the Lord? Are you talking about only the parts when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us?

They are all inspired By God, thats my point, they are also meant to deliver a message. the message is found in the words of Jesus.

How is it that you guys dont recognize that the only man ever named Lord of heaven anbd earth is Jesus Christ? and then not grasp that His words are above all others because He is the One God sent?

Jesus is foretold from moses foreward, and testified to as the Lord of all by all the apostles. His apostles understood who He was and the value of His words, what teaching teaches us to not accept His words as the words of God with all authority? who was crucified for the world? and who was raised from death and lifted to Gods throne? Who is the only name whereby one mkust be saved? who else in the Bible besides Jesus fulfills all the prophecy? Who claimed the things Jesus claimed ? Jesus is Lord therefore His words are above all others. all the others are testimony of Him and His absolute authority over heaven and earth.

so while you mnay attemopt to credit me with insisting Gods word isnt all inspired, which it is. the purpose of all the others is to testify of the Lord Jesus Christ, beforehand, and after. So yeah to be clear Jesus words are above all the others and the only proper order is to take Faith in Jesus, and accept His Light. if we deny Him, we have no hope available. none of these thing are true of another according to the inspired word of God. the word of God that Cane through Jesus, is salvation because it is Grace, and truth that keeps it true. " neither do i condemn you.....now go and sin no more" <<<grace and truth that teaches.

the work of God is this, to believe in the one God sent" " why do you call me Lord and do not do what i say?"<<grace and truth that teaches.

THIS is why Jesus rules scripture in every way

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL JUDGEMENT unto the Son: 23That all men should HONOUR THE SON, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

honoring God is accomplished by Honoring Jesus word simply because all of the bible teaches us that He is the Christ and son of God <<<this true statement Gives Him dominion. Jesus isnt just a scapegoat to place our sins upon, He is the risen eternal Lord who Himself said plainly again anbd again " My words, my commands my teachings are those of God, and they are Life for those who accept them."

thats just a sample of Why i hold Jesus above moses , or paul or any other, Because He is above every other. ill never part fropm His teachings, and will always say the same things to christians, Learn Jesus word, keep Jesus words in you, accept them as the words of the Lord to His church" ill never part from the way and truth and Life or anything He spoke because it is Life to those wholive in Him. if He says "obey my commands" that is now my heart, because He suffered and died on my behalf, and promised His spirit to those who accept His word. john 14-15. Ill always hold to Jesus the Lord above any idea or doctrine Because He is the One sent By the Only true God. and He will never change.

 

[AbigailZeke]

is the word grace what sets us free? or is keeping the word of Jesus Christ?

Here's the answer for you:

Even in the Old Covenant the priest looked at the lamb for blemishes..not the guy who brought the sacrifice.. the Father looks at Jesus....He is our Lamb! He is spotless and blameless.

Tell me, did it matter if the guy kept the Word, in addition to bringing a spotless lamb? (Question directed to followjesus)

 

[Magenta]

We disagree about the meaning of I Corinthians 3. I do not believe any of us are lifting grace above Jesus. It is through Jesus that we have the grace of God. Without the Lord Jesus, we would have no grace.

No, sin does not only lose Earthly rewards, but Heavenly ones as well. But sin does not take away your salvation. There are many verses about the saving power of Christ.

Ephesians 4:30-32 "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice; And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

Saved people can grieve the Holy Spirit, and do all these things, but the person is still saved.

II Timothy 1: 7-14 "For God hath not given us the spirit of FEAR; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Be not therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Who hath saved us, and called us with and holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE AND GRACE, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who HATH ABOLISHED DEATH, and hath brought life and IMMORTALITY to light through the gospel:

Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

For the cause which I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that HE IS ABLE TO KEEP that which I have committed to Him against that day. (notice that Christ is doing the keeping, not Paul- also note that Paul says he knows who he has believed, not what he has done to keep his salvation).

Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

That good thing which was committed unto thee KEEP BY THE HOLY SPIRIT which dwelleth in us.

How are greedy people punished on Earth? Idolaters? I don't know. I would suppose the chastisement is different for different children. One thing I do know is that being out of fellowship with God, that chasm between is a judgment in itself. David speaks of this when he cries out to the Lord, "Restore unto me the joy of my salvation."

Jesus says in John 10 "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them ETERNAL life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.

My Father, which gave them me, is GREATER THAN ALL; and NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND.

I and my Father are one."

Capitalization is for emphasis, not for shouting.

Jason denies Jesus Christ as God. He rejects the Scriptures that teach such while mouthing words about how you need to accept what is written.

 

[Galatea]

Jason denies Jesus Christ as God. He rejects the Scriptures that teach such while mouthing words about how you need to accept what is written.

I didn't read where he rejects the Deity of Christ, I only read where he thinks works can keep you saved. I'm a little confused about his theology, to be honest. Some of his posts seem contradictory.

 

[John146]

Jesus says in John 10 "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them ETERNAL life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.

My Father, which gave them me, is GREATER THAN ALL; and NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND.

The great thing about after the cross is that the believer is part of the body of Christ. We're not in His hand...WE ARE HIS HAND!

 

[John146]

They are all inspired By God, thats my point, they are also meant to deliver a message. the message is found in the words of Jesus.

How is it that you guys dont recognize that the only man ever named Lord of heaven anbd earth is Jesus Christ? and then not grasp that His words are above all others because He is the One God sent?

Jesus is foretold from moses foreward, and testified to as the Lord of all by all the apostles. His apostles understood who He was and the value of His words, what teaching teaches us to not accept His words as the words of God with all authority? who was crucified for the world? and who was raised from death and lifted to Gods throne? Who is the only name whereby one mkust be saved? who else in the Bible besides Jesus fulfills all the prophecy? Who claimed the things Jesus claimed ? Jesus is Lord therefore His words are above all others. all the others are testimony of Him and His absolute authority over heaven and earth.

so while you mnay attemopt to credit me with insisting Gods word isnt all inspired, which it is. the purpose of all the others is to testify of the Lord Jesus Christ, beforehand, and after. So yeah to be clear Jesus words are above all the others and the only proper order is to take Faith in Jesus, and accept His Light. if we deny Him, we have no hope available. none of these thing are true of another according to the inspired word of God. the word of God that Cane through Jesus, is salvation because it is Grace, and truth that keeps it true. " neither do i condemn you.....now go and sin no more" <<<grace and truth that teaches.

the work of God is this, to believe in the one God sent" " why do you call me Lord and do not do what i say?"<<grace and truth that teaches.

THIS is why Jesus rules scripture in every way

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL JUDGEMENT unto the Son: 23That all men should HONOUR THE SON, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

honoring God is accomplished by Honoring Jesus word simply because all of the bible teaches us that He is the Christ and son of God <<<this true statement Gives Him dominion. Jesus isnt just a scapegoat to place our sins upon, He is the risen eternal Lord who Himself said plainly again anbd again " My words, my commands my teachings are those of God, and they are Life for those who accept them."

thats just a sample of Why i hold Jesus above moses , or paul or any other, Because He is above every other. ill never part fropm His teachings, and will always say the same things to christians, Learn Jesus word, keep Jesus words in you, accept them as the words of the Lord to His church" ill never part from the way and truth and Life or anything He spoke because it is Life to those wholive in Him. if He says "obey my commands" that is now my heart, because He suffered and died on my behalf, and promised His spirit to those who accept His word. john 14-15. Ill always hold to Jesus the Lord above any idea or doctrine Because He is the One sent By the Only true God. and He will never change.

Jesus' word told Jonah to go to Nineveh and cry against it, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." Are you obeying the words of Jesus? Have you gone to Nineveh and cry against it declaring they will be destroyed in forty days? You see, to obey the Lord means to rightly divide the word of truth in order to get our marching orders correct. Just as there are divisions in the OT, there are also divisions in the NT. Why are there divisions? Because there are some instructions that differ according to the dispensation one is living.

 

[Magenta]

I didn't read where he rejects the Deity of Christ, I only read where he thinks works can keep you saved. I'm a little confused about his theology, to be honest. Some of his posts seem contradictory.

I have read it countless times, and provided the Scriptures to him countless times that show Jesus Christ is God, but he rejects them. He will say, as you may have noted, that Jesus is the one God sent; he will acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God etc but when you get right down to the Deity of Jesus Christ, he balks and rejects the Scriptures that outright say it, claiming it is not said. Due to the fact that he has had quite a few accounts over a relatively short period of time you would not be able to search from his profile to find all the threads he has made.

 

[Galatea]

The great thing about after the cross is that the believer is part of the body of Christ. We're not in His hand...WE ARE HIS HAND!

Yes, we are now even closer to Him than when He was among men. That's true, we can't be lost unless He starts to cut off parts of Himself. I never thought about assurance that way. That's a valid point.

 

[88]

Once saved always saved sounds good----but I would not teach it or risk my soul on it.... Grace and Peace

 

[Galatea]

Once saved always saved sounds good----but I would not teach it or risk my soul on it.... Grace and Peace

I notice you use grace and peace a lot in your telegrams. How do you have peace that passes understanding if you believe you can lose the grace?

 

[dcontroversal]

I notice you use grace and peace a lot in your telegrams. How do you have peace that passes understanding if you believe you can lose the grace?

There is no hope in works or a supposed lack of sin......there is hope in the perfect, complete faith of Christ and his righteousness, justification and sanctification being applied unto a believer who has been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise and given eternal LIFE, having been born of the Spirit and INCORRUPTABLE seed!

 

[88]

That is why I make my calling and election sure (a forty year journey)-----it takes some effort (I believe) to lose it----I follow 2 Peter 1:4-11... Extra Grace...

 

[Cee]

I think where our viewpoints differ is our focal point. I believe Scripture isn't just about salvation from hell, but freedom to love. So my focus is on the process after salvation. Not the process to be saved. My theology is that a Person brings salvation, but the Spirit of Truth is the Spirit of freedom. So my heart is to see people fully free. Free to love God and love people. Not to stay saved, but because they are set free in Christ. But it's the truth that reveals our freedom.

 

[Cee]

Okay so let's address the elephant in the room with Scripture...

17For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

v17 is comparing Adam's disobedience with Christ's obedience.

Before Christ we were identify by the "old man". Because of Adam's trespass death reigned in our lives. But, before of Christ's obedience now grace and righteousness reign in our life.

We were not sinners because of our actions. There was no amount of righteous acts we could do to become righteous. This was an identity issue, through Adam, death reigned and because death reigned sin reigned.

19For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

But now, through Christ, grace and righteousness reign. And because of this new identity in Christ, life reigns and because life reigns righteousness reigns.

What does righteousness reigning look like?

Romans 12:9Let love be genuine.

And then Paul continues on to tell us what genuine love looks like:

Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. 10Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. 11Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit,[SUP]g[/SUP] serve the Lord. 12Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. 13Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Please notice that Paul is focusing on what love looks like not sin. When Paul does reference sin he is talking about works of the flesh. This is selfish and not loving others. I will show you:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Freedom has been given to us so we can serve one another in love. This is not the works of the flesh. We are called to walk by the Spirit notice this Scripture is right after Paul talks about loving one another. This is not a coincidence. We are pursuing love. The desires of the flesh are against the Spirit. Because the desires of the flesh are about self-protection. And doing these our way not God's way.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

All of these are about getting selfish needs met through illegal ways:

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do[SUP][e][/SUP] such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul is contrasting those who don't have Christ with those who do. You see this because of his final conclusion.

First Paul is explaining what love looks like:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.

How do we keep step with the Spirit, Paul?

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Notice Paul is not focusing on sin again (at least not how some think) he is focusing on loving one another. This is how we keep in step with the Spirit.

So then how can we LOVE each other?

19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot[SUP]a[/SUP] love God whom he has not seen. 21And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Why am I focusing on this? Because those who espouse this idea of greasy grace don't even realize that they are pointing at themselves.

How much do you love your brothers? Probably very little until you yourself have truly accepted God's love for you. And if you're still trying to be saved, have you truly accepted it? The fruit you bear will show it.

You want to call out false teachers? It's by your fruit that people know if you know God. What is this fruit? Your love.

John 13:34A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Notice it doesn't say people will know you're my disciples by your Bible knowledge. Sure that's important, but if our Bible knowledge doesn't lead us to loving each other. Are we truly being lead by the Spirit?

C.

 

[followjesus]

If Jesus paid for all sin at the cross and if suicide is a sin, how then is it not paid for if He paid for all sin? Something doesn't line up in your belief system if you believe people, believers, who commit suicide go to Hell. If Jesus paid for all sin and suicide is considered a sin then such a sin would be washed away in the blood of Christ.

To argue otherwise you would have to believe Jesus didn't pay the price for all sin. You will not find in scripture that suicide is an unpardonable sin, rather that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

PS [to any reader of this post]: This in no way, shape or form is an endorsement for suicide. If you're struggling with contemplating suicide seek help, talk with someone. God has plans for your life that extend beyond your current circumstances. There is hope.

romans 3:25-26 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PASSED, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

hebrews 9:15-18 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the TRANSGRESSIONS THAT WER UNDER THE FIRST TESTAMENT, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the DEATH OF THE TESTATOR.17For a TESTAMENT IS OF FORCE WHEN MEN ARE DEAD: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood<<<<

define the word mediator ben, and you will find value in these verses. also notice it is the sins that are past , and the transgressions under the first covenant that are represented.

 

[followjesus]

Okay so let's address the elephant in the room with Scripture...

17For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

v17 is comparing Adam's disobedience with Christ's obedience.

Before Christ we were identify by the "old man". Because of Adam's trespass death reigned in our lives. But, before of Christ's obedience now grace and righteousness reign in our life.

We were not sinners because of our actions. There was no amount of righteous acts we could do to become righteous. This was an identity issue, through Adam, death reigned and because death reigned sin reigned.

19For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

But now, through Christ, grace and righteousness reign. And because of this new identity in Christ, life reigns and because life reigns righteousness reigns.

What does righteousness reigning look like?

Romans 12:9Let love be genuine.

And then Paul continues on to tell us what genuine love looks like:

Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. 10Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. 11Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit,[SUP]g[/SUP] serve the Lord. 12Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. 13Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Please notice that Paul is focusing on what love looks like not sin. When Paul does reference sin he is talking about works of the flesh. This is selfish and not loving others. I will show you:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Freedom has been given to us so we can serve one another in love. This is not the works of the flesh. We are called to walk by the Spirit notice this Scripture is right after Paul talks about loving one another. This is not a coincidence. We are pursuing love. The desires of the flesh are against the Spirit. Because the desires of the flesh are about self-protection. And doing these our way not God's way.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

All of these are about getting selfish needs met through illegal ways:

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do[SUP][e][/SUP] such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul is contrasting those who don't have Christ with those who do. You see this because of his final conclusion.

First Paul is explaining what love looks like:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.

How do we keep step with the Spirit, Paul?

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Notice Paul is not focusing on sin again (at least not how some think) he is focusing on loving one another. This is how we keep in step with the Spirit.

So then how can we LOVE each other?

19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot[SUP]a[/SUP] love God whom he has not seen. 21And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Why am I focusing on this? Because those who espouse this idea of greasy grace don't even realize that they are pointing at themselves.

How much do you love your brothers? Probably very little until you yourself have truly accepted God's love for you. And if you're still trying to be saved, have you truly accepted it? The fruit you bear will show it.

You want to call out false teachers? It's by your fruit that people know if you know God. What is this fruit? Your love.

John 13:34A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Notice it doesn't say people will know you're my disciples by your Bible knowledge. Sure that's important, but if our Bible knowledge doesn't lead us to loving each other. Are we truly being lead by the Spirit?

C.

some good stuff in there cee. I always appreciate the thought and time opf how you present things. While i find excellent value, i do have some things to ask you to elaborate on.

But lets dig into Love a little more as relating to the commandments of Jesus Christ, who is the sole mediator of the new covenant. Paul speaks ALOT about following the spirit, obeying the truth, walking in the spirit, walking in Love ect. Jesus spoke these things beforehand, remembering that Moses was the first mediator, and Jesus the Mediator of the New covenant.


John 14:15 -24 “If you love ME, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the SPIRIT OF TRUTH The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On THAT DAY you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

21Whoever has my commands and KEEPS THEM is the one who loves me. The ONE WHO LOVES ME will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”23Jesus replied, “ANYONE WHO LOVES ME WILL OBEY MY TEACHING. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHING. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to THE FATHER WHO SENT ME."


can i ask " do you suppose this is where Paul got " follow the spirit" " Obey the truth" ? considering also john 6:63 " ....The words I have spoken to you, are spirit and they are Life." since we see Here that the spirit of truth will always bring into rememberance Jesus words, since Jesus says " would you say the spirit will accept the words of Jesus Christ?


also lol my contention as far as false doctrines go, is anything that accepts Jesus words are 100 percent true and without error. anything that omits Jesus words, or claims " those dont apply to Christians" is a false doctrine. Grace is great, but it rewuires " the spirit of truth" the spirit of truth" is very clearly explained Here By Jesus Christ Our Lord. So how do we Know what Love is? and what is Love for Jesus? according to Jesus? does it involve His commands and teachings? How does our Lord equate Love for Him? and are His teachings, teaching Love?

turn the other cheek, give to the poor and needy, clothe them, feed them, give mercy because God has been merciful to you, forgive as many times as a person repents, do not Lust in your heart, do not Love the things in the world. keep God first in youre Heart and Life.......Just a few examples my question is this tho i ramble often

at what Point do Christians Not take Jesus Word for things understanding that Paul was His apostle sent to spread His gospel of the Kingdom of God?

Luke 4 :18-21 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to PREACH THE GOSPEL to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, THIS DAY THOIS SCRIPTURE IS FULFILLED IN YOUR EARS. 22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth."

so did Jesus Christ preach the gospel? or do christians look past Him to paul?

 

[followjesus]

I think where our viewpoints differ is our focal point. I believe Scripture isn't just about salvation from hell, but freedom to love. So my focus is on the process after salvation. Not the process to be saved. My theology is that a Person brings salvation, but the Spirit of Truth is the Spirit of freedom. So my heart is to see people fully free. Free to love God and love people. Not to stay saved, but because they are set free in Christ. But it's the truth that reveals our freedom.

I wish i had seen this before the other, and im really not sure i differ much with you, which is why i enjopy communicating with you, because even when i do differ on points, your input is always valuable, i also appreciate that you do focus where you focus.

"the spirit of truth is required"<<<excellent

“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[SUP]c[/SUP] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.


is there any other place the spirit of truth is given according to scripture?