To all the post trib and no trib believers.

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Nov 19, 2016
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Note, I want it understood that the Antichrist will probably use a human host, however the REAL Antichrist was restrained at the time Paul wrote Thess...does that sound like he is a normal human? The Antichrist has been restrained for 2000 years...does that sound like a regular human? Things will get so bad at the end of the age that demons and the angels of Satan may appear openly to humans, that is why I leave it open for the possibility that the Antichrist may be a mighty angelic being that went with Satan and he may appear openly for what he is, remember this being will actually claim that he IS God.
The antichrist will be Satan possessing a human body,for he is the man of sin,and it will not be an angelic being with Satan.

The antichrist is a man.

1.In Isaiah the people that were deceived by the antichrist say is this the man that made the world to tremble.

2.The man of sin,the last king,is mighty,but not by his own power,for he gets his power from Satan.

3.Concerning the 10 horns,and 7 heads,in Revelation 12,the crowns are on the heads,which means Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people by way of the 7 kingdoms that ruled up to the beast kingdom,and in Revelation 13 the crowns are on the 10 horns which means Satan in the physical realm deceiving people,for the ten horns are the physical dominion of the beast kingdom,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section who hand their power over to the beast,and that is how he gets control of the world.

4.The beast and false prophet go to the lake of fire when they are defeated at the battle of Armageddon right before the millennial reign,but Satan goes to the bottomless pit,so the beast is a man that has received judgment,and the beast and the false prophet are the first 2 people to go to the lake of fire.Satan and the beast,the man of sin,a human,are separated with each going to a different destination,and the beast,and false prophet,receive judgment before any other human,who do not receive judgment until after the millennial reign if they are not right with God.

The antichrist is a man that has been born in to this world by parents,who will be in to the occult,witchcraft,nature worship,and does not regard any god,but honors the God of forces,the evolutionary process,and will convince the world that he obtained power through nature,which the false prophet will do miracles to convince the world that the beast did harness the power of nature,and gave this power to the false prophet,and will share this power with all who follow him,and they can have power through nature,which people believe he will restore the hidden mysteries of the past when people had those powers,but lost it through time.

Because of the antichrist's interest in the occult,which he takes it to an extreme level,and lusting for power,the devil is able to manipulate him,and control him,for the antichrist,the man of sin,will know all that is involved to establish such a kingdom that will take away more people than all the other kingdoms put together.

The antichrist is that cruel to take away billions of people to establish a kingdom that highly exalts him and people,although he is top dog.Nobody can be the antichrist on purpose,but it is because of the antichrists high level of wanting to exalt himself above all that is called God,or is worshipped,and exalt himself above every person on the planet,for he will magnify himself above all,that the devil is able to manipulate,and control him,and the devil will use the man of sin to pour out his wrath,and hatred,towards mankind,which the beast will be so terrible that Jesus said if He did not shorten the days the man of sin could rule,three and one half years,no flesh would be saved.

The antichrist is a human being,a man,and when Satan controls him it could be the antichrist does not even have a thought of his own,but only does what the devil wants him to do.

The antichrist was probably prepared to be the antichrist from birth,and brought up in the occult,and things of the new age movement,so that is all he knows,all he believes,and nothing else concerning reality,but sees all things according to evolution,the occult,and the harnessing of nature for power,and all those years,being trained from birth,have made him in to a monster,all the while thinking it is the course of the world,survival of the fitness,the best plan of action for the world to get rid of everybody that does not fit the pattern of what he believes,with cruelty,and hatred,for he is all about the world,with the attitude that is the way the world operates,people pushing for power,and exalting themselves above each other,and putting people down that would dare get in the way,for I will get you before you get me,for you would try to do the same to me,because that is all he sees concerning the world,void of understanding compassion,and care for people despite their hatefulness,but only sees exaltation of oneself,and trounce all who oppose you,for that is how he sees that the world operates,and nothing else.

God said concerning the new age movement and their occult interpretation of the Bible,that their conscience is seared with a hot iron,for they look at the Bible in a different way,and do not have the love and compassion that Jesus told the saints to have,like feed,and clothe,your enemies,and if physically abused,so not physically abuse back,and if mentally abused,do not mentally abuse back,be harmless as doves,for with God it does not matter for you will prosper no matter what problems you have on earth,and God is in control and will put down the wicked,but the new age movement does not have that in their interpretation of the Bible,for they only have this earth,and their prosperity on earth,so they do not have the love and compassion that a person that believes the Bible should have,but will fight fiercely for mother earth,and their prosperity.

How much worse will the antichrist be who has been trained from birth to be the antichrist,and have his conscience seared with a hot iron,and not show love and compassion,but will highly exalt himself,and go forth with cruelty,and hatred,to protect the only place he has,and knows,mother earth,for there is no reality for him of a better prosperity,for the occult is all he knows,all he believes,and all he cares about,and he will take away every person that dares to oppose him if he can.

I do not know for a fact that the antichrist will be trained from birth to be the antichrist,but I am sure he probably was to have that much cruelty,and hatred,and to not see anything but like Mr. Smith from the Matrix movie,me,me,me.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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I hope the pretrib rapture is true just last night I was in tears longing to be in arms one more time I wanted to go home not the heavenly realm persay not to escape this world and this pain and hardship but rather because they say home is where your heart is and my heart is with him I was very home sick.

This journey in faith and in life and as a believer is a long one that requires us to continue to seek him out till we finally find him at the end of this race and if the pretrib rapture is indeed the truth then fantastic but seeing how I am not sure either way all I know to do is to prepare my heart. regardless of how it happens we have to remember to have our hearts prepared it requires a very deep very personal bond and relationship with him otherwise even if the rapture happens it won't do us any good.

God looks to the heart first and personally I don't really care when or how the rapture happens because my heart knows the way and knows the path to follow and I think that counts far more than being right about any view or belief if the rapture. We must not allow a difference in understanding and beliefs of doctrine to tear us apart and cause us to dislike each others because at the end of the day what matters is our bond with him
 
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pottersclay

Guest
I hope the pretrib rapture is true just last night I was in tears longing to be in arms one more time I wanted to go home not the heavenly realm persay not to escape this world and this pain and hardship but rather because they say home is where your heart is and my heart is with him I was very home sick.

This journey in faith and in life and as a believer is a long one that requires us to continue to seek him out till we finally find him at the end of this race and if the pretrib rapture is indeed the truth then fantastic but seeing how I am not sure either way all I know to do is to prepare my heart. regardless of how it happens we have to remember to have our hearts prepared it requires a very deep very personal bond and relationship with him otherwise even if the rapture happens it won't do us any good.

God looks to the heart first and personally I don't really care when or how the rapture happens because my heart knows the way and knows the path to follow and I think that counts far more than being right about any view or belief if the rapture. We must not allow a difference in understanding and beliefs of doctrine to tear us apart and cause us to dislike each others because at the end of the day what matters is our bond with him
And that is why my brother we preach his sudden appearance so that you always find yourself in the Lord.
That is our true objective to encourage to the end but to give hope that your king can arrive at any given moment.
The blessed hope of Christ return , a promise from our Lord our savior our king.
May the holy spirit comfort and kindle our hearts with love and peace as we draw closer to this wonderful promise.
Be blessed blain...be blessed all...In Jesus name....


Amen
 
Dec 2, 2016
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I watched a debate a few years back on TBN between Tim Lahaye the champion of the pre-trib rapture, and Erving Baxter, a teacher who found the bible to actually teach a post-trib rapture. Lahaye presented IDEAS as to why he believed there would be a pre-trib rapture, Baxer simply read from the bible in context. I felt sorry for Lahaye because he was a very old man and God was giving him one last time to repent of his false teaching. Not long after that debate Lahaye died and he will stand in judgement for promoting a demonic doctrine that can cause many souls to be lost. There is really no excuse for those who teach this false doctrine. One can even go to an encyclopedia and look up pre-trib rapture and it will tell you it was created by John Darby around 1830. No one can find a pre-trib rapture in the NT because it does not exist there, those who claim to find it in scripture are demonstrating their ability to produce something from nothing in their own minds.
 
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Hi JL: 2Thess 2:7 he who restrains AT PRESENT until out of the midst he(Antichrist) be, then shall be revealed the wicked one. If the Antichrist is simply a man then that would mean that he does not exist until the end of the age when he will be born as everyone else is born. If that were true then how could the Antichrist be restrained these last two thousand years and possibly many more years before. How could he be just a man if he has been in existence for thousands of years?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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I watched a debate a few years back on TBN between Tim Lahaye the champion of the pre-trib rapture, and Erving Baxter, a teacher who found the bible to actually teach a post-trib rapture. Lahaye presented IDEAS as to why he believed there would be a pre-trib rapture, Baxer simply read from the bible in context. I felt sorry for Lahaye because he was a very old man and God was giving him one last time to repent of his false teaching. Not long after that debate Lahaye died and he will stand in judgement for promoting a demonic doctrine that can cause many souls to be lost. There is really no excuse for those who teach this false doctrine. One can even go to an encyclopedia and look up pre-trib rapture and it will tell you it was created by John Darby around 1830. No one can find a pre-trib rapture in the NT because it does not exist there, those who claim to find it in scripture are demonstrating their ability to produce something from nothing in their own minds.
Personally samuel your post is way out of line. What ever view one takes it is "NOT" demonic, evil and most importantly it is not a salvation issue. Furthermore, I hope the pre-tribbers are right and that is based on the fact that no sane person wants to face the anti-christ but I too believe the post tribulation view is Biblical. In any event, our focus should be on bringing others to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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those who claim to find it in scripture are demonstrating their ability to produce something from nothing in their own minds.
That is false statement, for I found that the gathering of the church takes place prior to that first seal being opened and that without reading anything from Darby, Scofield or anyone else and that through the study of the word of God.

Not long after that debate Lahaye died and he will stand in judgement for promoting a demonic doctrine that can cause many souls to be lost
I would be careful about calling the teaching of the gathering of the church prior to God's wrath a "demonic doctrine." Because if (and I say "if" for your benefit) the gathering of the church does take place prior to God's wrath, you yourself will have just called the word of God a demonic doctrine.

Jesus went to the Father's house to prepare dwelling places for all believers and said that He was going to come back and take us back to the Father's house to those dwelling place. What makes more sense, for the bridegroom to gather his bride before his wrath is poured out or to send her through his wrath and then return for her? Not to mention that Jesus did say for those overcomers and those who keep the patience of His word, that he would keep believer "out of" the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world, to test those who live on the earth. (Rev.3:10)

Also, Paul said that believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer the coming wrath and because Jesus already experienced if for us.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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If Jesus and Paul both taught a post-trib rapture ,and they did, and teaching a false pre-trib rapture could cause millions to forsake Christ, then you tell me what it is, if it is not demonic? Pre-trib is an endtime deception presented by Satan in order to blow Christians away when Jesus does not return before the tribulation, but the Antichrist does.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
If Jesus and Paul both taught a post-trib rapture ,and they did, and teaching a false pre-trib rapture could cause millions to forsake Christ, then you tell me what it is, if it is not demonic? Pre-trib is an endtime deception presented by Satan in order to blow Christians away when Jesus does not return before the tribulation, but the Antichrist does.
Ya see Samuel bluto believes in post trib you don't see us knock him around with scripture and try to dig at him because he adresses the issue politely. It's not a salvation issue as he says so we are condemned for preaching this doctrine? How do we steer others away from Christ when the scriptures we preach say be ready at any moment. Keep yourselves pure. For you do not know the time your Lord returns.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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If Jesus and Paul both taught a post-trib rapture ,and they did, and teaching a false pre-trib rapture could cause millions to forsake Christ, then you tell me what it is, if it is not demonic? Pre-trib is an endtime deception presented by Satan in order to blow Christians away when Jesus does not return before the tribulation, but the Antichrist does.
First of all, for the true believer in Christ, their faith is not based on when the gathering of the church takes place. It is based on Christ who provided salvation for us. Anyone who would forsake Christ because prophecy didn't take place within the time frame that they expected, are in great error. The true believe is ready to keep their faith in Christ even unto death.

That said, if I was to begin to see the events taking place that I believed that should take place after the church is removed, such as the emergence of the antichrist, I would go to God and pray asking God to give me strength to keep my faith knowing that I was in the time period of God's wrath.

I think that it more of a wrong teaching to teach believers/unbelievers that God is going to first send believers in His Son that they must first go through His wrath and then they will be gathered.

You have failed to understand and recognize that, Rev.19:11-21, which is a detailed account of when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, reveals that the bride/church is shown to be following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses. These are those who will have previously been gathered at the resurrection. Suffice to say, if believers are following Christ out of heaven, then they would have already had to have been in heaven in the first place.

Rev.19:11-21 is one of the best proofs showing that the church is already in heaven during the time of God's wrath, as they will be following the Lord as returns to the earth to end the age. These are those who are mentioned in Rev.17:14 as His "called, chosen and faithful followers."

 
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GaryA

Guest
We have yet to see any verses point to,or declaring a post trb rapture.
"Sure you have --- you just refuse to accept that that is what it says..." ;)

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
Question for post trbs.

You do realize Jesus uses lot and Noah,right?

Now,you do also realize that they were delivered PRE JUDGEMENT?

Not only did Noah not get some imagined post flood rescue,but Lot was not a post judgement rescue,nor was he returned post fire to Sodom.

Do you guys even bother with these OBVIOUS denunciations BY JESUS of your doctrine????
"Apples and Oranges"

You are trying to "bind a pattern" of something that is not meant to be ( not supported by the scriptures ). And, it is not something that anyone should wrap doctrine around.

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
What is going on with 5 virgins left behind with no tribulation anywhere in the picture???
There is no tribulation in the picture. The parable is not about the tribulation.

:)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I watched a debate a few years back on TBN between Tim Lahaye the champion of the pre-trib rapture, and Erving Baxter, a teacher who found the bible to actually teach a post-trib rapture. Lahaye presented IDEAS as to why he believed there would be a pre-trib rapture, Baxer simply read from the bible in context. I felt sorry for Lahaye because he was a very old man and God was giving him one last time to repent of his false teaching. Not long after that debate Lahaye died and he will stand in judgement for promoting a demonic doctrine that can cause many souls to be lost. There is really no excuse for those who teach this false doctrine. One can even go to an encyclopedia and look up pre-trib rapture and it will tell you it was created by John Darby around 1830. No one can find a pre-trib rapture in the NT because it does not exist there, those who claim to find it in scripture are demonstrating their ability to produce something from nothing in their own minds.
Totally agree with this....was raised in a church that taught the preeminent lie.....the bible does not teach that...it teaches a POST Tribulation/ Pre-Wrath ingathering.........
 
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GaryA

Guest
Totally agree with this....was raised in a church that taught the preeminent lie.....the bible does not teach that...it teaches a POST Tribulation/ Pre-Wrath ingathering.........
I was also raised with the whole "70th week of Daniel, 7-year tribulation, pre-trib rapture, antichrist treaty with Israel" view of biblical prophecy.

And, if you tell them that -- and, also that -- God opened your eyes to the truth in the scriptures regarding the End Times Scenario ( through-and-with much study and prayer, of course ) - and the error of the 'pre-trib' rapture view -- they are not - in the slightest - interested in how you came to that conclusion. ( as if, they just might could possibly be wrong... ) You can tell them that you have "been there and done that" - but, now understand the [ real ] truth -- while still having an understanding of that which they believe that you used to believe. You can show them scripture all day - and, they will 'invent' ways to twist it around what they have been taught -- never letting go of the thing which has them all wrapped up tightly in the complex false hope that Satan has knitted together to bind their minds and to deceive and delude them into perpetuating the lie... :( It's sad --- it really is... :( :(

The 'pre-trib' rapture lie is worse than the Chinese Finger Puzzle... :eek:

If only they could understand that -- if they would only let go of it - they could be freed from it.

"Oh, well..."

( "We keep trying..." )

:)
 
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pottersclay

Guest
L
I was also raised with the whole "70th week of Daniel, 7-year tribulation, pre-trib rapture, antichrist treaty with Israel" view of biblical prophecy.

And, if you tell them that -- and, also that -- God opened your eyes to the truth in the scriptures regarding the End Times Scenario ( through-and-with much study and prayer, of course ) - and the error of the 'pre-trib' rapture view -- they are not - in the slightest - interested in how you came to that conclusion. ( as if, they just might could possibly be wrong... ) You can tell them that you have "been there and done that" - but, now understand the [ real ] truth -- while still having an understanding of that which they believe that you used to believe. You can show them scripture all day - and, they will 'invent' ways to twist it around what they have been taught -- never letting go of the thing which has them all wrapped up tightly in the complex false hope that Satan has knitted together to bind their minds and to deceive and delude them into perpetuating the lie... :( It's sad --- it really is... :( :(

The 'pre-trib' rapture lie is worse than the Chinese Finger Puzzle... :eek:

If only they could understand that -- if they would only let go of it - they could be freed from it.

"Oh, well..."

( "We keep trying..." )

:)
Lol Chinese finger puzzle love it bro which shows what were up against.

Chinese finger puzzle is just that "a puzzle" but since you can't make or figure the pieces out you call it a lie. Thank you for sharing.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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It is a mystery that I admit I do not understand. People who I am convinced know the Lord(only God really knows) and yet they seem to be totally blind to the fact that Jesus Christ Himself said that He would return after the tribulation to gather the church.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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Hi JL: 2Thess 2:7 he who restrains AT PRESENT until out of the midst he(Antichrist) be, then shall be revealed the wicked one. If the Antichrist is simply a man then that would mean that he does not exist until the end of the age when he will be born as everyone else is born. If that were true then how could the Antichrist be restrained these last two thousand years and possibly many more years before. How could he be just a man if he has been in existence for thousands of years?
Satan is behind the Antichrist. Paul calls him the Son of Perdition, (Destruction). There are only two people in the Bible
that are called this. One is Antichrist the other is Judas Iscariot. Judas became possessed by Satan and betrayed Jesus
he was a type of Antichrist.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Satan is behind the Antichrist. Paul calls him the Son of Perdition, (Destruction). There are only two people in the Bible
that are called this. One is Antichrist the other is Judas Iscariot. Judas became possessed by Satan and betrayed Jesus
he was a type of Antichrist.
Interesting concept.....the beast...

that was (past tense)
is not (present tense)
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (future tense)

and go into perdition.....When John pens Revelation that is what is stated about the beast........most miss this