The easy way to spot a false grace message

[InSpiritInTruth]

Very true! Believers in Christ are covered sinners. The following should pretty much end the question:

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Covered sinners??? That's a good one! Is that like grace is a license to sin? And there is their favorite go to verse to support their sinning, read below it might help remove the confusion.

People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...

1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.

So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.

 

[Grace777x70]

Morning Grace777,

Very true! Believers in Christ are covered sinners. The following should pretty much end the question:

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Good morning brother. I agree that if people say they still don't sin - they have deceived themselves and actually have a very low view of what sin actually is. Strife, malice and slandering others in the body of Christ is just as much sinning as living the homosexual lifestyle.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

2 Corinthians 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

See that? Those who practice sin are the unrighteous and are called unbelievers, and are still in darkness.


The darkness has no fellowship in Christ, because in Him is no sin nor darkness.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Covered sinners??? That's a good one! Is that like grace is a license to sin? And there is their favorite go to verse to support their sinning, read below it might help remove the confusion.

No where did I say anything about a "license to sin." You did! We are covered sinners, being transformed into the image of Christ all the days of our lives. We won't becomes sinless until we receive our immortal and glorified bodies. As the scripture states, if you say you have no sin, you are a liar and the truth is not in you.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

No where did I say anything about a "license to sin." You did! We are covered sinners,

Again you imply Jesus is your cover charge to sin, or that Jesus made you free to sin, same as those who follow grace as being a license to sin doctrine. Those who cannot cease from sin (can't stop sinning) are called cursed children....

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are we saved (sinners)

or are we righteous who do not need saved.

For those who are righteous, You do not need Christ. keep on going your way and leave us sinners alone so we can rely on Christ,

for the rest of us, We need Christ, Turn to him, and not yourself.

 

[Grace777x70]

If people we discuss the scriptures with can not be honest with us - no good can come from this and it is best to just avoid interacting with them.

Sometimes it's just best to leave them to their own "personal application" of the scriptures. I believe in posting what we see in the scriptures and allow the Holy Spirit to witness within ourselves as to the truth and the freedom that is in our Lord's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

We have a great salvation in Him!

 

[PeterJens]

1. No one is teaching a "sin all you want doctrine"

This is just a spoiler statement " no one is teaching a sin all you want doctrine".

All sins are the same, they defile the sinner equally.
So once you sin once, you could have done them all or just one, it is the same.

Now the faithful followers of Christ desire to walk in righeousness with Christ, as
far as they can. When they stumble, they get up, repent and walk on.
Not all sins are the same or is the issue with sin singular. All sin damages our
relationship with God and others, but we need to work through the issues, be discipled,
fight the good fight.

Our salvation is dependent on our faith in Christ, and this preserves us.
As we walk so we become more whole and real, more complete and mature.
The old man withers, and the new creation grows in our hearts.
We are being transformed from fallen sinners into perfect pure saints.

Now to the mystics, this is the flesh attempting to become like God.
To the followers, this is our calling. We walk in the footsteps of Christ
and the Apostles empowered by the Holy Spirit, guided by the word,
inspired and directed by the love alive in our hearts.

The false grace movement despise the ways and path of obedience,
theirs is a higher way, on which they have already gained perfection,
they just need to realise it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is just a spoiler statement " no one is teaching a sin all you want doctrine".

All sins are the same, they defile the sinner equally.
So once you sin once, you could have done them all or just one, it is the same..

Yep.

and all have sinned, Are sinning, and will continue to sin, why? Because all sins are the same. (a little boo boo, mistake, small sin which people do not think pmeans much) mucks you just as guilty as the prostitude, adulterer and murderer.

so lets please stop with the idea of thinking you or anyone else is more righteous than the person sitting next to you, And keep our eyes on Christ? (which true children of God do)

Deal?

 

[PeterJens]

The stumbling block

If sin is no longer the stumbling block between us and Christ, it is now down to who
we are and the source of our distortions and issues.

I feel like some want to get to Jesus and stay arrived at the gate, good enough for me.

Grace is a period of ignoring failure, where growth is expected which heals and resolves
the issues. If the period of grace is spent doing nothing, at the day of reconning, nothing
has changed, so hope has been lost.

Sin is like a flag saying, I am stuffed, things are going to get worse and I am going to die.
Jesus is saying come to me, learn of me, and you will be cured.

And one bunch are saying, junk, the cure is invisible and will happen magically, we just
need to have faith and wait around and magically we will be zapped. If you try and
fix yourself, you are just adding to Gods work, and deny the work He is doing anyway.

It appears from years of talking about this, these zappers want to just stay where
they are, and wait for the zapping to start. A tell tale problem, is not much has
happened to date...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The stumbling block

If sin is no longer the stumbling block between us and Christ, it is now down to who
we are and the source of our distortions and issues.

Yet more self righteousness, And trying to get to God on your own standing.

If it is down to who we are. NO ONE ILL BE SAVED.

it is down to what CHRIST did, WHO HE IS, and WHAT HE WANTS TO GIVE US.

not down to WHO WE ARE. WE ARE SINNERS, and FALL SHORT of Gods glorious standard.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I am going to post Romans 6 to show we can in fact be set free from sin that works in our members....

Romans 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sintherefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free fromsin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am going to post Romans 6 to show we can in fact be set free from sin that works in our members....

Romans 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sintherefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free fromsin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

One who is saved, Is born of God, has been justified freely and been given the grace of God. been washed and renewed, not by their works, but By Gods mercy.

Has been set free from sin.

This does not mean they will be sinless. It means they are freed from the power of sin, and a child of God. because of this, as John said, They can not live a life of sin.

Maybe on day, ISIT will not just preach the power of salvation, But actually BELIEVE it.

 

[JaumeJ]

Psalm 32 speaks of true grace.

A man is blessed whose sins are forgiven. God does not hold the guilt of his transgressions against him.

The man is yet a sinner, but free of the guilt of sin. He is also free of the sting, death.

No flesh, not even those very righteous ones that tend to come in defending hyper-grace, is exempt from the need of this privilege of not having his guilt held against him.

I live in grace. Why? Because not being the One Who was perfect for me, I need God's grace fresh every morning..

Perhaps you do too?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Psalm 32 speaks of true grace.

A man is blessed whose sins are forgiven. God does not hold the guilt of his transgressions against him.

The man is yet a sinner, but free of the guilt of sin. He is also free of the sting, death.

No flesh, not even those very righteous ones that tend to come in defending hyper-grace, is exempt from the need of this privilege of not having his guilt held against him.

I live in grace. Why? Because not being the One Who was perfect for me, I need God's grace fresh every morning..

Perhaps you do too?

This is exactly what Grace teaches. and everyone here who teaches grace would teach this also.

The only people claiming anyone is DENYING the need for Grace are the people trying to fight AGAINST grace (be it hyper-grace, or whatever you want to call it)

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Though i admit that I very much want to stop sinning as much as I do as it's becoming extremely irritating to me so if you could would you pray for me? I am sick of screwing up as much as I do but self control is my greatest weakness

I was looking for the very best example of walking in the light that I could find and here it is.
Walking in the light is not exactly synonymous with not sinning.
To walk in the light means: to be truthful.
It doesn't mean to be perfect - it means to have light to see correctly and assess correctly.

There are places where we walk in the light (truthfulness).
Then there are places where we are still darkened because He hasn't yet shown us.
We can only walk by the light we have received.
We aren't expected to walk by light we have not yet been given. We only have to walk by the light we HAVE been given.

I have many things to tell you but you are not yet able to bear them all.

Walking in the light is just walking in truthfulness. This is to be shown the truth of ourselves so we won't be a hypocrite. It is all for our good because we don't dare to condemn any other man when we are truthful and upright in our heart. Being truthful and upright in our heart is also not completely synonymous with not sinning. God called David truthful in heart and upright but David had that debacle with Bathsheeba. At the time, he was walking in an area of darkness (untruthfulness). But a man was sent to him to show him what he was doing and so he then understood his own self deception of himself and repented. When he did that, he was again upright and truthful in heart. He had sinned, but he was walking in light concerning it.

I can imagine the self deceiving justifications in his mind to have been like...he was my best soldier and that is why he was at the front of the fighting. I didn't have him put there for any other reason. Those were probably at least similar to the thoughts, to the fig leaves he chose to cover his nakedness, to hide from God and himself what he had done.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Why not just say it simply, you teach sinless perfectionism....

I just want to point out how the enemy works against those who speak the words of Jesus Christ and the apostles in Truth. I have quoted the scriptures to prove all my points and never said anything about me being sinless or perfect. But if you go through this thread you will see at least 4 persons have tried multiple times now to prop up this same straw man argument of "sinless perfectionism". But also notice they do not discuss all the proof text I have provided from the words of God to confirm my message, they just try to sow the seeds of doubt and try to snatch away the good seed of God's words from being planted so that it might not take root.

This tactic of trying to snatch away the good seed from being planted is the work of the Devil, as he comes only to steal the words of God from being planted. Repeating a lie over and over again is also a tactic of the enemy.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I can't believe he actually played the Hitler card....

Desperate are we? LOL

 

[Grace777x70]

I just want to point out how the enemy works against those who speak the words of Jesus Christ and the apostles in Truth. I have quoted the scriptures to prove all my points and never said anything about me being sinless or perfect. But if you go through this thread you will see at least 4 persons have tried multiple times now to prop up this same straw man argument of "sinless perfectionism". But also notice they do not discuss all the proof text I have provided from the words of God to confirm my message, they just try to sow the seeds of doubt and try to snatch away the good seed of God's words from being planted so that it might not take root.

This tactic of trying to snatch away the good seed from being planted is the work of the Devil, as he comes only to steal the words of God from being planted. Repeating a lie over and over again is also a tactic of the enemy.

So, you do sin then from time to time and you do walk after the flesh from time to time? Is this what you are really trying to say without actually saying it? You can be honest with us.

If you are honest with us - then we can have a foundation in order to discuss things - such as the "application" of some scriptures.

Be truthful with us so that we can have honest discussions based on what is really being said.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can't believe he actually played the Hitler card....

Desperate are we? LOL

It is prety amazing, He posts passages, Which taken at face value (Apart from the rest of scripture) prove.

1. We must be sinless. or we are not saved.
2. Anyone who commits sin, is not of God.

Then he gets mad when we question him about it..

your right, it is a joke..