Did Christ do enough to save us?

[preacher4truth]

Sorry p4t

If I write "holy, other" this is what I meant. I did not mean wholly other. My brain does that
which is not very consistent, but I am happy with my approximations.

No, you made a theological statement thinking the theological statement says 'holy other' when it is actually 'wholly other'. But, you don't care to listen. Please don't pretend you coined this term. Thanks.

You also don't know what the word 'exalt' means. This is apparent because you think that others that teach God couldn't become man (gnostics) are exalting Him too much. That would be the exact opposite of what 'exalt' means. So, you don't even know the definition of the word. Assuredly henceforth you can provide a definition and pretend you knew it all along, when evidence proves otherwise.

I feel you are just being obtuse.

I've shown you to be the one who is obtuse. Look up above.

I build a model in my mind and reference it.

We've found the problem!!!!!!!!!!

Now either you address the points or you try and make you own. For me you have done neither, so I find it all irrelevant. I wonder how you normally engage with people? Probably this badly. Certainly no brother of mine.

I've nailed every false teaching you've brought forward thus far, yet apparently you can't learn, see, hear. This isn't the only time you've claimed others as lost. Sad indeed.

You're way off track son, in utter heresy. Any person who starts off teaching Christ didn't do enough is in fact on a dangerous, heretical and unsustainable path. That, and proves cannot learn even one thing, or admit error.

 

[Powemm]

Its all about the relationship..

 

[PeterJens]

p4t - if someone says God is too holy, other, different to be able to be expressed in human
form, how is this not exalting God too high? This is a classic definition of why the pharisees
wanted to stone christians, because of the blasphemy of saying a man could also be God.

Or have you missed this in your education?

I have spent many years witnessing to muslims, and their description of Jesus being God
was blasphemy because that was bringing God down to our level, which is dishonouring the
creator.

As believers the incarnation, is God saying He is not unapproachable, but it has to be on His
terms, because on ours we would not survive.

The whole reason God became man, was to show who He was to us, and to bridge the gap.
Now to add to this, the gap has to be bridged by preaching, by believing, by becoming open
because everything else would destroy us.

Read the parables. Jesus is the owner who is far off, leaving others in charge until He returns.
It is the responsibility of the tenants to look after the vineyard. We carry this responsibility to
choose to walk as we should or not.

Now Jesus can be easily passed over and missed, dismissed as a lunatic preacher who no longer
speaks to us today. On the other hand, if you want to find life, meet the creator, learn the way
of love, He is there.

So forever we need to respond to the calling we are given.
The Lord has given us great privilege and also the ability to follow, it is up to us to honour this.

It appears many hate this idea or principle, yet it is there in scripture.
To be saved we must believe, walk and stay believing, because everything in the universe and
our lives depends on this relationship. It has never been a once off affair.

 

[PeterJens]

No, you made a theological statement thinking the theological statement says 'holy other'

When I write the words "Holy, other" I did mean some think God is too Holy, unapproachable,
different to us, other than we can define, to be constrained in human form.

The term "wholly other" means something different.

And the funny thing is, I chose the words, I wrote them, and I can tell you what I meant.
Telling me I meant something else, and am mistaken just displays your attitude and approach
and nothing to do with me.

Now it is not heretical to say man needs to respond to God to be saved. Unless you are a universalist
or a strong calvanist, this is a true statement.

What I have demonstrated is in saying a summary, Christ saves us through the cross, we read different
things into this statement which only come out, when you expand it to its fuller meaning.

So strongly some feel, it upsets them deeply. This is emotional conditioning. It is often why we have to
be careful how we express things, and how people change their views.

It is why Paul persecuted the church with zeal, and others have said they wanted to destroy me.
But what matters is God and walking in love. And walking in Christ and the Holy Spirit we have no
greater privilege to share the wonders of His forgiveness, purity, cleansing, and righteousness.

Jesus called himself our servant. Think what this means. Jesus has done enough so that we can
find life, to have the opportunity to walk in perfection, yet even believers pour scorn on this.

So lost is the heart of man, even when shown the words, they declare it cannot be true.

 

[Stephen63]

So, according to the OP, the cross does not save, only makes them savable.

That is heresy.

Ok.....are all the sinners saved then?

 

[Stephen63]

Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

Jesus did everything so I don't have to do anything?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus did everything so I don't have to do anything?

You worded it wrong, It is more like Jesus did everything because I CAN"T do anything. (If I could, he never would have had to come in the first place.

 

[Stephen63]

Repentance is a gift of God. Romans 2:4
Faith is a gift of God. Romans 12:3, Hebrews 12:2
To believe in Him is by the power of God. John 6:29

Everything required for the lost to do in to be saved is God-given. From faith, repentance, salvation even unto glorification all are His works.

Repentance is NOT a gift. That statement is totally false.

New American Standard Bible
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

American King James Version
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:

If your doctrine is so easy to prove, why do you have to twist scripture to make it say what you mean?

New American Standard Bible
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Faith is given.....but we must use it. We must decide. We must commit.

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by SovereignGrace

So, according to the OP, the cross does not save, only makes them savable.

That is heresy.

Ok.....are all the sinners saved then?

Okay SG, I'm still looking for an answer.....

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by mailmandan

Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

Jesus did everything so I don't have to do anything?

I'm still waiting for your answer as well.....

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus did everything so I don't have to do anything?

There is no work you can do to save yourself.

 

[Grace777x70]

Repentance is granted/given by God Himself.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged
,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

[SUP]26 [/SUP] and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Repentance is NOT a gift. That statement is totally false.

New American Standard Bible
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

The kindness of God is A GIFT. God does not HAVE to be kind to you, in fact, his very character demands he must JUDGE YOU. so the fact he can be kind, is a gift.

American King James Version
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:

One can not repent APART from the gift of God.. Thus the fact WE CAN REPENT, is a GIFT.

If your doctrine is so easy to prove, why do you have to twist scripture to make it say what you mean?

The only one twisting is you.

New American Standard Bible
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

See there you go, TWISTY,, Had to leave the part out BELIEF was a GIFT OF GOD..

Faith is given.....but we must use it. We must decide. We must commit.

Faith is still a gift of God, WHich proved the person you are trying to prove wrong RIGHT

 

[SovereignGrace]

What is bias?

You answered this question yourself right here...

I remember talking to people who exalted God too high, and made man too low.

Seems like you're the epitome of Romans 1:21-23...

We can NEVER exalt God in the manner He needs to be exalted. You are exposing your false teachings at every turn.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You answered this question yourself right here...



Seems like you're the epitome of Romans 1:21-23...

We can NEVER exalt God in the manner He needs to be exalted. You are exposing your false teachings at every turn.

That's the humanistic premise of his belief system showing.....big time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You answered this question yourself right here...



Seems like you're the epitome of Romans 1:21-23...

We can NEVER exalt God in the manner He needs to be exalted. You are exposing your false teachings at every turn.

That's the humanistic premise of his belief system showing.....big time.

I do not get his thinking.

1. The cross is not enough

2. We should never hold God to high..

That is religion 101 as shown in Rom 1.

We do not Hold God to high, we bring him down to our level. that way we can be all cosy and happy with our selfs. and not have to repent and admit who we really are..

which is sort of an oxymoron..

I claim I live Gods standard (which according to scripture is imposssible) but in order to do this I have to bring God down to my own level.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ok.....are all the sinners saved then?

The cross saves all the cross was intended to save. But that's speaking about particular redemption, and I wish not to derail this thread.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm still waiting for your answer as well.....

Just answered...just saw this question...

 

[lastofall]

For this cause are many called but only few are chosen: in addition to these is that if any will follow Christ, we must deny [disown] ourselves [our own will] and submit to and rely upon the Word of God, and there be few who actually make the sincere effort to do this; but as you mentioned most follow a cheap and no cost faith in which nothing is required of them, which if they knew the Lord Jesus at all would know that such following is false.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For this cause are many called but only few are chosen: in addition to these is that if any will follow Christ, we must deny [disown] ourselves [our own will] and submit to and rely upon the Word of God, and there be few who actually make the sincere effort to do this; but as you mentioned most follow a cheap and no cost faith in which nothing is required of them, which if they knew the Lord Jesus at all would know that such following is false.

If we knew the Lord at al, we would realize we could be perfect from now until the day we die (which we will not be) and still fall short of the glory of God.

so instead of tryign to live up to some unobtainable standard in order to be saved (or keep ourselves saved) we could live in grace and rely on Gods power to change us and make us like him.

If you think you must work in order to keep yourself saved, The fact is, You do not now the Lord at all.