The easy way to spot a false grace message

[PeterJens]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! I am on the floor laughing so hard, My gut hurts.
Dude, You have done nothing but further implicate yourself as a slanderer who attacks EVERYONE who tries to expose your sin.

EG - I am lost. Let me simplify everything into easy steps.
I believe in Christ and I follow Him.
You say I am a legalist, and I sin and slander others.

I just want to bring glory to the King and walk in righteousness.
I do not understand your approach, anger, accusation or intent. It means nothing to
me, because Christ is my all in all.

I have tried to understand your logic and it appears that talking about and following
righteousness is unbelief in the finished work of Christ and trying to earn salvation.

And you say we are so different I do not understand you or any of your group, at all
to any degree.

Ok, fine by me. I just follow Jesus, and point to Him and invite all to follow too.

Halleluyah.

As far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us.
Psalm 103:12

God bless you, and may you walk in His grace and love, Amen.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So, we don't go back forth from being a child of God to a child of the devil then because of sinning. One could also say we don't go back and forth from being a sheep to a goat. There are no "shoats" or combination animals either....lol

This is why I am trying to ask good questions to see how some interpret scriptures.

If that were the case, there are a whole lot of men in this thread alone who have gone to not being a child of God over and over again because they are having problems with their tongues and problems with great immaturity.

 

[Utah]

Thank you for at least admitting that.

LOL. I knew you were going to edit that to the very letter; I also knew you were going to dodge the issue. Like I said, theft by deception; that's your game.

God is not amused, and He will not be mocked.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Two questions. Number one being, why do you quote John and the verse saying one born again cannot sin, to make a point of you not sinning but still believe its possible for a believer to sin (usually at the exclusion of this point)? In other words, why do you try and paint yourself sinless when pressed by avoiding answering forthright, and quote verses on born-again believer unable to sin, but then not share your other held belief that believers still can sin?

My second question is unrelated to the first, but I still wonder. Why is it that in "walking in the light" the blood of Christ cleanses one from all sin, if walking in the light means to not be sinning? If walking in the light means one is not sinning, then how does one get cleansed of sin while in the light? There wouldn't be sin to clean if being in the light was dependent upon not sinning. You see?

To the first question I do not use the words of God in John to prove myself as not sinning, I use it to prove the doctrine I preach. Also scripture says it is possible for believers to sin, and even fall away from the faith, so your doctrine needs to take all scripture into account before drawing full conclusions. Too many just cherry pick scripture like Romans 7 to try to prove we will always sin and cannot not stop sinning, which of course is contrary to many other parts of scripture. The words of Jesus and the apostles do not contradict, though it may seem it does at times. But when you understand what is being said as a whole, then a lot of those things that seem to contradict will get fewer and fewer.

To the second question, that verse also says AND the blood of Christ...notice....

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

I have a thread I wrote on how the blood of Christ (testimony) cleanses us if you like I can post it.

But if you consider what walking in the Light is, you cannot be walking in darkness, or in sin because you will abiding in the Light of God's Word, you are abiding in the Spirit, you are abiding in His Love, you are abiding in the Truth, you are abiding in His words which teach us not to sin.


Ephesians 5:1-9

5 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

[SUP]9 [/SUP](For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

When all the darkness is removed you will be walking in the Light.

 

[Grace777x70]

If that were the case, there are a whole lot of men in this thread alone who have gone to not being a child of God over and over again because they are having problems with their tongues and problems with great immaturity.

And there is no such animal as a combination sheep/goat or a "shoat" - no changing from being a child of God to not being one.

All this fighting, malice, deceit and strife is just the flesh. If we went to hell because we walked by the flesh's deceitfulness from time to time - there would be none in heaven with the Lord.

Thank God salvation is based on His grace through faith in what Christ has done by His blood and our only hope is in His blood and His righteousness which He gives to us freely justified by His grace.

We need to have our foundation right before we can build on it. Get salvation by grace through faith in Christ's completed work wrong - then we come up with a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religion that replaces the grace of God for our own works.

Romans 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eg, some believe differently than you. They think it is possible to turn back after putting their hand to the plow. There are godly men who work out their salvation with fear and trembling who actually take warnings like the one I gave above to heart. Some of them really listen to take care that an evil and unbelieving heart not be found in them, as they do with all the warnings. God puts them on a constricting path to purge them of pride, arrogance, presumptions, self love. If God takes them by this constricting way to grow them in virtue, it does not mean they aren't your brother. In the past, I have had very good and edifying conversations with you and yet I believe it is possible to put ones hand to the plow and then turn back. Can you never have any conversation with a man who believes that unbelief, if not worked out, can harm his soul?

They teach a false gospel of works. You can not turn back and lose salvation. That claims God is not all powerful

You do not praise God and share how powerful he is (like ISIT has been doing) then deny Gods power to do what God promised to do.

If we put aside all taunting and snippy remarks and lack of forgiveness, there is something to what the op is saying.

There is? What? All he has done for the past months is attack attack attack, He and his people have no desire to discuss anything, Just attack. I am not the only one who is sick of this, If you want to ENABLE people to continue this way, thats on you..

The verse does actually say, if we abide in Him we do not sin.

Who abides in him 24/7? Who can go a day moment by moment and not think of self for even a few second, let alone 24 hours?

I agree, if we abide in him, we do not sin, But that is not what the op is about, the op is about the power of God to keep us from sin, and judging people HE THINKS do not believe God has freed us from the power of sin.


We can not discuss with the OP. Because the OP already has destroyed any possibility of discussion when he made the slanderous statement, He proved he was being dishonest.

I have found a pretty simple way of spotting a false grace message.

The false grace message says sin (works of the flesh) still has dominion over you ( A lie) when you are born again of the Spirit and under grace. This means by definition that you are still a servant of sin. (another llie based on the first lie)

You really think we have a basis for discussion when an OP is started like this?

This OP is not about discussing what God says, this OP is another attack on HYPERGRACE or in reality GRACE!

and what is said, Instead of calling him out on it, You would rather enable it, Instead of being honest, and sayin this is not right, You have to say we just have a SMALL disagreement,

I have small disagreements with alot of people. yet you do not see them attacking me or me them now do you?

Sorry, He condemned all hypergrace to hell. based on a slanderous lie

That is his goal. They have been doing this for MONTHS NOW!!

and that was the reason for this thead.. because like Peter he refuses to sit down, and listen to what people have to say, He thinks he knows, and by golly, he will make sure everyone else knows WHAT HE THINKS, it does not matter if it is true or not..

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I can sort of understand phrasing it this way...it sort of agrees with the way Grace777 looks at it also - that we are sort of....severed from our sin nature, but it rises up to tempt us to walk in it again. To which God says, it desires to devour you but you must be it's master. (my paraphrase of His words to Cain, too lazy to look it up.)

Well that's the fight Paul was talking about with new converts,he said he spoke the way he did to them in Romans 7 because of the infirmity of their flesh. But the old man with the lusts thereof can be put to death by the Spirit, then you will have peace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You want to believe the flesh is a sin nature so be it. It doesn't change what is important. That whatever you want to think it is, it remains, and it wars against the Spirit, and Christians are exhorted in Galatians 5:16 to, "...walk by the Spirit," so that we, "will not carry out the desires of the flesh.”

* By the way "flesh" is use in different ways depending upon the context.

Must be nice to not war with the flesh..

If paul could not do it, Why would I think I have ANY hope of doing it, when I am no where NEAR the maturity of Paul..

I do not think there has been a man like paul since he went home to meet his savior. so if I hear someone say they have conquered the war, Immediate red flag.

 

[PeterJens]

Motives

There is so much manipulation and projection, an attempt to just cause mist, it becomes
valueless to make a point, without it becoming personal.

I am interested in one thing, and that is our walk with Christ.
What interests me is we are a blazing light, a lamp on a hill, something to be admired,
powerful, astounding.

Somehow this is not the vibe I am getting here. More like wounded soldiers looking for
cover, attacking and blaming other groups rather than asking why is not the promise working
better in my heart.

Jesus's friends loved Him so much they died for Him. I do not have loyalty like that.
Jesus had a woman wash His feet with her tears and dry them with her hair. I do not
have this effect on those I know. He had the strength to see Judas and walk with him,
knowing his betrayal and still love him.

I have nothing to prove to Christ, but I seriously want to learn, and He offers me this
teaching if I am willing.

Now HG has so many flaws and the ideas about law and not reading the sermon on the
mount are laughable. So I say amen to those brave enough to mark where they are
and be willing to learn from our Lord, because we have definately not arrived, and we
are definately falling short.

All things work together for good for Gods elect. Great glory be to our King.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BTW, I KNOW you've got nothin on me, because if you did, You'd already have called in the dogs on me like they did ISIT.

How do you know I have not? (wink)

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And there is no such animal as a combination sheep/goat or a "shoat" - no changing from being a child of God to not being one.

All this fighting, malice, deceit and strife is just the flesh. If we went to hell because we walked by the flesh's deceitfulness from time to time - there would be none in heaven with the Lord.

Thank God salvation is based on His grace through faith in what Christ has done by His blood and our only hope is in His blood and His righteousness which He gives to us freely justified by His grace.

We need to have our foundation right before we can build on it. Get salvation by grace through faith in Christ's completed work wrong - then we come up with a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religion that replaces the grace of God for our own works.

Romans 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Yes, it's the flesh, but I don't look at it as "just the flesh." I see it as great loss for these men who are being ruled by it and walking by it. It should give us a lot to pray about when we fall to it instead of having victory over it. But if you can't even see that you have fallen to it, how will you ask for the help you need?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I had to search to find this again. The sin He deals with me about is inside, in my mind, will and emotions. I can keep the outside looking pretty respectable to you, but He sees what's going on inside that is hindering me from being able to move forward and have victories. It's the things that are hidden from others that keep me from being able to receive more light.

the more we grow. The more we see just how filthy our inside is,, If not for the grace of God. who makes us white as snow..

Thats why we need to be like paul And keep pushing forward to the prize of the high calling, Work out our salvation. Because if we ever think we made it, Satan has us right where he wants us..

I have seen so many who thought this crash and burn

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

They teach a false gospel of works. You can not turn back and lose salvation. That claims God is not all powerful

You do not praise God and share how powerful he is (like ISIT has been doing) then deny Gods power to do what God promised to do.




There is? What? All he has done for the past months is attack attack attack, He and his people have no desire to discuss anything, Just attack. I am not the only one who is sick of this, If you want to ENABLE people to continue this way, thats on you..



Who abides in him 24/7? Who can go a day moment by moment and not think of self for even a few second, let alone 24 hours?

I agree, if we abide in him, we do not sin, But that is not what the op is about, the op is about the power of God to keep us from sin, and judging people HE THINKS do not believe God has freed us from the power of sin.


We can not discuss with the OP. Because the OP already has destroyed any possibility of discussion when he made the slanderous statement, He proved he was being dishonest.



You really think we have a basis for discussion when an OP is started like this?

This OP is not about discussing what God says, this OP is another attack on HYPERGRACE or in reality GRACE!

and what is said, Instead of calling him out on it, You would rather enable it, Instead of being honest, and sayin this is not right, You have to say we just have a SMALL disagreement,

I have small disagreements with alot of people. yet you do not see them attacking me or me them now do you?

Sorry, He condemned all hypergrace to hell. based on a slanderous lie

That is his goal. They have been doing this for MONTHS NOW!!

and that was the reason for this thead.. because like Peter he refuses to sit down, and listen to what people have to say, He thinks he knows, and by golly, he will make sure everyone else knows WHAT HE THINKS, it does not matter if it is true or not..

I don't think you should assume that I am enabling someone by ignoring some harsh remark or uncalled for or childish thing or some arrogance on their part. I think you should assume that I try to talk about it with the one I think is more mature in our Lord who might hear a plea from me to stop harming themselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was meaning to say that I think you see a lion on the path sometimes that isn't there.

This I can agree with, and in fact, Have been shown a few times since I have been here, where I made mistakes of assuming somethign that was not true based on something someone said.

Which is why I think we need to stop looking at signs, and actually listen to people (I have tried to tell peter this for months now)

However, When it comes to a few select people. I think it is quite clear..that is not what is happening here.

A little while back, we had some who seemed to come in a flood who were all about following every little statute in the law of Moses. Now THAT'S definitely a lion on the path.

Yes,,

Salvation isn't based on producing fruit.

Thats not what I hear a few people in here say.

He saved me before He pruned me and purged and began to make me more like our Lord. But there is always the tension you can never get away from and it's here as always. Anyone who DOESN'T produce good fruit will be chopped down. I have to take all of it into account. I can't just insist there is no tension because we are meant to work through the tension with Him, not to ignore it altogether.

The word chopped down actually means to prune,, It talks about a vine which is laying on the ground unable to produce fruit, So the vine keeper lifts it up and cuts off all that has died, so the living can start to produce fruit.

This is what God does to his children, He does not cut them off (take back their salvation) he cuts off the dead (most likely by trial, tribulation and chastening) until we start to produce fruit again..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think you should assume that I am enabling someone by ignoring some harsh remark or uncalled for or childish thing or some arrogance on their part. I think you should assume that I try to talk about it with the one I think is more mature in our Lord who might hear a plea from me to stop harming themselves.

we enable people by continuing to support their behavior, and start judging people who are trying to confront them for their sin.

we do not enable them when we confront them, I am not saying when they mess up a few times, I am talking about deep habitual sin, like has been going on here for months.

I am not talking about harsh remarks either,

I am talking about all the slander, the lieing ,and the attacking a select group of people based on false information

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'd like to read it if you will post it.

 

[PeterJens]

Action

The enemy will always provide defeated people to knock down anyone who wants to
walk in the fulfillment of the gospel.

They are happy to accept they are bound in sin and not free, yet anyone who says Jesus
can set them free are liars and hypocrites, because they claimed the impossible.

There is no difference between these people and the sinners in the world or their arguments.
But what makes it worse, they claim the name of christian and true follower of Christ, while
denying the walk.

So one chooses even in the body where you stand, as an encourager of faith or as the
enemy attempting to strike down and discourage those who follow Christs words.

It is not for me to say which you are, but invariably your words will declare your position
on this dividing line. And in eternity there will be no hiding, it will be very obvious, and
yet it will not stop people because their spiritual foundations are already set.

Prophets of old called people to walk with God in righteousness and repent of sin and stop
doing evil and do good. So should we.

Let us press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called us heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:14 (expanded)

 

[Grace777x70]

1 John 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

cleanses us = present continuous tense = in other words the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin because we are in Christ. His blood speaks of better things.


"If" we walk in the light - this is a sphere of living - the condition of being in the light means we have fellowship with each other and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

(cleanses us = present tense continuous cleansing - if we were perfect in all our fleshly behavior - why would we need the constant cleansing of the blood of Jesus...selah ).

We are always light in the Lord.

Believers are definitely in the light. The scriptures are clear on this.

Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. )


Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.


1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

Here Paul is contrasting the believer and the unbeliever. Notice the believer is called "light".

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye ( believers ) not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

The understanding of this truth brings "repentance" to us to walk as who we are in the Lord.

Let's keep beholding the glory/goodness of the Lord and the Holy Spirit will transform us by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

( Yes - we do participate in this with Him - it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. He wins us by His love and grace towards us )

 

[pottersclay]

If it has skin....it sins

If you want it erased ....that's grace

A fresh start calls for a new heart

What a lot of saints fail to see is how God sees us...from the end to the beginning. Rest assured that the one that started that good work in you is able to complete it.
We all sin and fall short and if there is one that says he has no sin he is a liar. The truth is not in him.
The Lord told Paul as well as us all "God's grace is sufficient" now I don't know why or how but I do know the who, and if I am to take him by faith and believe in his word then who am I to say "not so Lord".

Remember this....we will lose many battles....but Jesus has won the war.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - I am lost.

Yes, I know you are. Thats why you refuse to repent of slandering me and so many others in CC, And keep on trying to tell me what you think.