Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[eternally-gratefull]

And, I respectfully disagree (though I agree with much of what you say)

Don't think I will answer here - my answer was in a previous post!

I will let you have the last word - for now! I plan to convince John of the truth of my position and then we'll confront you (in heaven!) Don't know that it will do any good, though - you are quite stubborn! (in a good way!

then as long as you do not come out attacking eternal security and those who believe in it, We should have no problem.

 

[Grandpa]

No argument with any of the verses here:

Ephesians 2:8 says very clearly that salvation is by grace through faith: it is a gift from God -- Amen and amen!

Romans 11:29 is speaking about the love of God for Israel. He is not throwing out the people whom he has called and loved, even though they as a nation have not believed. - Amen and amen

I Peter 1:5 highlights that God keeps us by His power (not by the works that we do) as we have faith in Him. - Amen and amen!

But I don't see here that a person who is not believing (having faith) will be saved. Nor do I see a clear statement that once a person believes in Christ that he will always continue to believe in Christ.

You asked for verses that showed OSAS.

There are no verses for someone who is not believing being saved.


This isn't for people who think they are following some recipe and think they can check off all of their 'to do's' and say yep, I'm osas, I've done everything necessary to receive Eternal Life.

This is for people who have been saved, needing the Lord Jesus Christ to save them, and know that it is by His Power and His Power alone that they were/are saved and remain saved.

To try and bring doubt upon OSAS is bringing doubt upon the Power of God. Its just not possible for Children of God.

 

[mailmandan]

Certain people prefer to remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security and they want others to join them. Misery loves company!

 

[Grace777x70]

I think that those who have a hard time understanding eternal security for those that are truly in Christ - born from above - sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believed.

I think they have a hard time factoring in all the warning scriptures and about how that sin ( in all it's forms ) brings destruction to us. They see these "warnings" and then attribute them to mean - people do not go to heaven when they die.

I firmly believe they are confused about salvation for going to be in heaven because we are in Christ and the salvation we can experience here on this earth. The word "salvation" has many meanings attached to it and sometimes it is referring to being saved here in this earth from things.

 

[Grandpa]

I think that those who have a hard time understanding eternal security for those that are truly in Christ - born from above - sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believed.

I think they have a hard time factoring in all the warning scriptures and about how that sin ( in all it's forms ) brings destruction to us. They see these "warnings" and then attribute them to mean - people do not go to heaven when they die.

I firmly believe they are confused about salvation for going to be in heaven because we are in Christ and the salvation we can experience here on this earth. The word "salvation" has many meanings attached to it and sometimes it is referring to being saved here in this earth from things.

Its because they have a list of all the things they have to do to be saved.

If they stop doing any of the things on their list they can no longer be saved, obviously.

 

[preacher4truth]

Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?

You're probably aware and have been aware there is no verse in all of Scripture that states that phrase exactly...

And of course, the doctrine comes via studying and interpreting Scripture, properly handling the Word; 2 Timothy 2:15.

 

[Grace777x70]

Its because they have a list of all the things they have to do to be saved.

If they stop doing any of the things on their list they can no longer be saved, obviously.

I agree...that is a sure sign of a twisted gospel message if we think like that.

But I believe this "thinking" comes from our church traditions too and these can be hard to have our minds renewed to a stronghold of the mind - especially when trying to rationalize all the warning scriptures.

I think we need more people with the Daniel's anointing from the Lord - which is one who is a "dissolving of doubts." on hard passages that can easily get skewed when we mis-interpret them and don't look at them through the finished work of Christ.

Daniel 5:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Forasmuch as an excellent spirit, and knowledge, and understanding, interpreting of dreams, and shewing of hard sentences, and dissolving of doubts, were found in the same Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar: now let Daniel be called, and he will shew the interpretation.

 

[Chester]

Certain people prefer to remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security and they want others to join them. Misery loves company!

I like the picture - quite descriptive!!

Funny how people keep telling me I should be fearful and afraid - rather than encouraging me to trust and believe in Christ!

 

[Chester]

Its because they have a list of all the things they have to do to be saved.

If they stop doing any of the things on their list they can no longer be saved, obviously.

Interesting!

I have spent a lot of my life convincing legalistic believers that they don't need lists of things to do in order to be saved! I agree that this can be a real danger for those who do not believe in OSAS!

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved! -- There is my list!

 

[Chester]

You're probably aware and have been aware there is no verse in all of Scripture that states that phrase exactly...

Exactly - As far as I have found "once saved always saved" is not stated exactly: it must be derived from one's interpretation of Scripture.

And of course, the doctrine comes via studying and interpreting Scripture, properly handling the Word; 2 Timothy 2:15.

If the doctrine is not directly stated, then the question becomes - if the Word is handled properly, what does it teach?

And that question I think can and should be discussed openly and honestly and deeply.

But then the discussion becomes quite different from one group or the other saying: The Bible teaches my view - you are a heretic!

 

[John146]

Exactly - As far as I have found "once saved always saved" is not stated exactly: it must be derived from one's interpretation of Scripture.



If the doctrine is not directly stated, then the question becomes - if the Word is handled properly, what does it teach?

And that question I think can and should be discussed openly and honestly and deeply.

But then the discussion becomes quite different from one group or the other saying: The Bible teaches my view - you are a heretic!

Ok, if it's the semantics that you don't agree with, then instead of "once saved always saved", then let OSAS be "once sealed always sealed." The sealing of the Holy Spirit is our guarantee that the adoption will take place, that is, the redemption. It's a future thing that's been promised to the believer.

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly - As far as I have found "once saved always saved" is not stated exactly: it must be derived from one's interpretation of Scripture.



If the doctrine is not directly stated, then the question becomes - if the Word is handled properly, what does it teach?

And that question I think can and should be discussed openly and honestly and deeply.

But then the discussion becomes quite different from one group or the other saying: The Bible teaches my view - you are a heretic!

That would be a good topic.

WHat does the doctrine of eternal security teach..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we can have alot

For example, If I claim I AM SAVED, yet believe at the end, there is even the slightest chance I MAY NOT BE SAVED (for whatever reason)

Then was, or am I really saved to begin with,, Which begs the question, what does it mean to be saved.

All good topics.

 

[Chester]

Ok, if it's the semantics that you don't agree with, then instead of "once saved always saved", then let OSAS be "once sealed always sealed." The sealing of the Holy Spirit is our guarantee that the adoption will take place, that is, the redemption. It's a future thing that's been promised to the believer.

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Yeah, I suppose that could work -- Do you have a Scripture that clearly and explicitly says that once a believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit he will always be sealed with the Holy Spirit?

 

[John146]

Yeah, I suppose that could work -- Do you have a Scripture that clearly and explicitly says that once a believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit he will always be sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Ephesians 1 is quite clear is it not? It's a promise to the believer that the redemption will happen, guaranteed!

 

[MattTooFor]

For example, If I claim I AM SAVED, yet believe at the end, there is even the slightest chance I MAY NOT BE SAVED (for whatever reason)

Then was, or am I really saved to begin with,, Which begs the question, what does it mean to be saved.

I agree, if I'm understanding you correctly. (And it's probably wise to agree with someone who has 39,000 posts versus my 1.) But this is the aspect that is overlooked by 99.9% of all those who debate OSAS:

Certainly, once God has saved someone they cannot become 'unsaved' anymore than someone can become unborn. The problem from the human perspective is...only God knows whose names are written in the Book of Life. We here on earth don't get a sneak peek at this book. So we're left to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". Of course, anyone who is walking on the 'straight and narrow' certainly deserves to have a very strong sense of assurance...but never to simply presume "hey, I'm saved, period -- end of discussion". I know there is a kind of 'false doctrine' out there which says believers can know with "absolute certainty" that they are saved, but no one has "absolute" knowledge about anything...except God.

And certainly, modern-day Evangelical "absolutists" would be in an awkward situation if they had been sitting in the Corinthian congregation on the day there was a reading of Paul's second epistle, chapter 13 verse 5, which says "examine yourselves whether you are of the faith".

Modern-day mainstream Evangelical: "Hey wait a minute, I don't have to examine myself. I already know absolutely that I'm saved."

 

[JGIG]

Yeah, I suppose that could work -- Do you have a Scripture that clearly and explicitly says that once a believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit he will always be sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Because it is HIS ETERNAL LIFE that is given to us, not our life made longer. And eternal means, well, eternal . No beginning, no end, the Life of Christ IN us, and we are IN Christ.

Once one is IN Christ, they are ALIVE in Christ, because of the LIFE of Christ, which is ETERNAL.

"Because I live, you also will live." (from Jn. 6)

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25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. (from Heb. 7)
​

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19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (from Gal. 2)​

And it's not US who must maintain our position of salvation (new birth, inheritance), but God Himself who guards it for us through the resurrection (everlasting life) of Christ:

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (from 1 Pet. 1)​

You can't screw that up! Once you've put your faith in Christ, your inheritance is kept in heaven for you, shielded by God's power!

And the guarantor? God's Spirit Himself:

When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (from Eph. 1)​

-JGIG

 

[dcontroversal]

Hmmm!!?? There is no aorist verb tense in Ephesians 2:8.

I don't recall quoting Ephesians........try John 3:16....!

 

[Grace777x70]

John says that he has spoken things so that they may know that they have eternal life.

1 John 5:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Paul says to "work out " not "work for" in Phil. 2:12. The he says in verse 13 - "For it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure".

In other words - work out what is in you now in the new creation in Christ. Put on Christ - put on the new man created in righteousness and holiness. It is God who is at work inside of you. Listen to the Holy Spirit inside of you. Keep your eyes on Jesus - the author and finisher of faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

You're probably aware and have been aware there is no verse in all of Scripture that states that phrase exactly...

And of course, the doctrine comes via studying and interpreting Scripture, properly handling the Word; 2 Timothy 2:15.

And yet we see verses like...

I know that WHATSOEVER GOD does it is ETERNAL (EVERLASTING)....nothing ADDED nor TAKEN AWAY...God does this so men may fear before him....

Whatsoever means WHAT EVER IT IS THAT GOD DOES.......SALVATION and ETERNAL LIFE fall under the WHATSOEVER VERBIAGE......

ETERNAL, EVERLASTING mean exactly that and NOT TEMPORARY!