Women Pastors? Help me.

[Dino246]

Perhaps one could say that Debra influenced authority because of her proximity to it rather than say she exerted authority in place of the king. ...
Jesus did not make Mary, His mother, to be head of the disciples but gave her into the care of one whom He trusted.

Roger, you're totally overlooking context. Deborah led Israel during the time of the judges. There was no king at the time.

Jesus was not addressing leadership at all; nothing from the context suggests that. The most sensible way to read the passage is that Jesus was ensuring that His mother was taken care of after He died.

I am definitely not prejudiced against women at all, maybe with that way of thinking God is prejudice in your mind because he says through the inspired writers: ... [SUP]16 [/SUP]To the woman he said,
“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to[SUP][a][/SUP] your husband, but he shall rule over you.”

Why would God in His wisdom assign now-sinful men to rule over women? This is a statement of certain consequence, not of judgement, punishment, intention, or curse. If God had said, "It is best that women have men to rule over them" it would be completely different. He didn't say that. God was telling Eve what would happen, not what He wanted to happen.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil ...

The blood ordinances, however, were nailed to the cross.

You're inserting words into the Scripture (eisegesis) and overlooking the meaning of the most important word in the passage: "fulfil"... to make complete. If you pay off a mortgage, you have fulfilled its terms... do you keep paying? Of course not. Scripture does not say that the blood ordinances were nailed to the cross; it says the written code was nailed to the cross. Please read Galatians!

To all of you: If you haven't read Angela53510's exegesis on pages 5 and 7, please do so.

 

[StanJ]

hmmm... you skipped Titus 1:5, which says

I didn't skip it it's irrelevant. I was loathe to put any verses down because I knew you would just make an excuse not to accept them.

and Acts.... speaks of overseers... again, plural... even though it was really talking about how the apostles, as a group, are all overseers/shepherds... and it's talking about Christ's church at large... not individual assemblies.

you obviously have very limited understanding of grammar. Just because something ends with an s it doesn't mean that the individual appointments or plural. Definitely not in the case of overseers and maybe in the case of Elders depending on the size of the congregation if you only have 10 people in a congregation or House Church you don't need more than one Elder. Anything else is speculation not in evidence.
Ephesians 4:11 talks about the offices that Jesus gave and as such they end in an s because it wouldn't make any sense for them not to end in an s because that would connote only one teacher, one evangelist, one prophet, and one pastor. you're doing a whole lot of mental gymnastics not understanding grammatical rules to try to make your point and the only point you're making is that you really don't understand grammar.

and 1 Peter? it's talking about our one overseer/shepherd.... Jesus...

Same principal. Wherever the Bible talks about Authority it goes from one level to the ultimate Authority being Christ and even God being the head of Christ. There is authority throughout the church, that is vested in the office and in individual people just as it was in Paul. He was the Apostle to the Gentiles even though many apostles did preach to the Gentiles and Peter was the Apostle to the Jews even though many apostles preach to the Jews including Paul.

Still..... no scriptural reference to any assembly being "led" by ONE person.... but several scriptural references demonstrating multiple elders/overseers/shepherds as almost a requirement.

The only thing I can surmise by your refusal to see what is shown in the scripture is that you want to be an anarchist and will say or do anything to prove your point. It is clear to any reasonable person that there are levels of authority that exist in the church today as it did back in Jesus' day.

https://bible.org/seriespage/5-new-testament-church-its-leadership

 

[StanJ]

Hmmmm... that sort of flies in the face of all the words of Jesus when he repeatedly told the disciples "you have heard it said...... but I tell you..... "

The principle of murder being wrong was formed in the OT, but Jesus said that was done away with, that even to hate someone is wrong, let alone murder them.

That whole passage is about how the OT laws have been superseded by Jesus' new law...

What Jesus said was;
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

Clarifying the Old Testament doesn't mean he was trying to do away with it.

Nothing was superseded by the New Testament, it was perfected, which is not the same thing at all.

 

[StanJ]

if a word has more than one connotation, then you pick the one that fits scripture as a whole. If there seems to be a contradiction then I think a person can use the meaning that would eliminate said contradiction.

No you pick the one that fits the context of where it is placed. The whole scripture doesn't all have the same context and that's what Biblical hermeneutics is all about. You don't decide what the meaning is the context of where it resides decides what the meaning is.

 

[hornetguy]

you're doing a whole lot of mental gymnastics not understanding grammatical rules to try to make your point and the only point you're making is that you really don't understand grammar.

I've always heard that I shouldn't argue with a foolish person, because they would drag me down to their level and beat me with experience....

I'm going to exercise that option with you, and this discussion.

 

[StanJ]

I've always heard that I shouldn't argue with a foolish person, because they would drag me down to their level and beat me with experience....
I'm going to exercise that option with you, and this discussion.

I'm not at all surprised that the end result of this would be a slag on your part.

 

[resurrection33]

So Im basically looking for some closure on this subject.

When I was 5 years old the first church I ever started attending was lead by A female Pastor. I was a regular for about 10 years. The pastor and My grandmother were best friends and she Preached at her funeral when he passed tragically.
I was saved at this church and witnessed many life changing things.

To me she was called. The absolutely incredible ways I would see God move through our church services and the amazing ways she would minister to us and help us really never made me doubt here calling. She was and still is my biggest inspiration as far as everything I hope to be one day.

So after reading that you can now imagine how hard it is to read passages like 1 Timothy 3- "The Husband of One Wife"
and 1 Tim 2:12 "I do not permit a women to teach nor have authority over a man"
And I also read about the Women Prophets of the Old testament like Miriam and others. And also places that speak of women prophesying.


I've had people tell me that the one I look up to the most is a false teacher because she is a women leading a church. That hurts my soul to hear things like that but I never want to argue the Scripture.

What is your take on the subject? Would you doubt someone's calling despite all of the wonderful fruit they produce?
Is our understanding of these passages wrong? Let me know what you think please.



This is the church and The Pastor I am referring to. --> Stephanie Taylor: Jesus Saves the Stripper | CBN.com (The pastor comes in later, not stephiane)

I have no problem with women pastors.

 

[samuel23]

The Lord does not share your opinion.

 

[samuel23]

I have noticed that there are certain persons in this forum who make a practice of speaking against any kind of sound reasonable position. This has to be a purposeful act to discredit the word of God in the minds of people...certainly not from the Spirit of truth.

 

[resurrection33]

The Lord does not share your opinion.

Have you discussed this with him?

 

[resurrection33]

I have noticed that there are certain persons in this forum who make a practice of speaking against any kind of sound reasonable position. This has to be a purposeful act to discredit the word of God in the minds of people...certainly not from the Spirit of truth.

Are you talking about people who make a practice of speaking against any kind of sound reasonable position, or are you talking about people who disagree with YOUR position?

 

[TheLastKnight]

For this you shall leave your mother and father and cleave to your wife and the two will become one flesh. God's power and glory is not limited by the mouths of men. God is the almighty and can use anyone to spread his wonderful Word. To discredit your wife is to miss out on a big part of your life. A wife is not a servant, she is part of you. If a woman's agenda is to rule the man, then her heart is not in the right place, but the two are too be as one.

 

[StanJ]

The Lord does not share your opinion.

It's not the Lord that has a problem with it, it's you.

 

[StanJ]

I have noticed that there are certain persons in this forum who make a practice of speaking against any kind of sound reasonable position. This has to be a purposeful act to discredit the word of God in the minds of people...certainly not from the Spirit of truth.

And then there are they don't reason but simply parrot time and time again the same will scriptures that have been refuted. There can be no reasoning with someone if they fail to engage in the discussion.

 

[samuel23]

What I have written I have written.

 

[StanJ]

What I have written I have written.

So you're not really here to discuss, your here just to pontificate.

 

[samuel23]

You just hate those scriptures don't you, it just drives you crazy to see the word of God displayed in context. You want people to be confused. I seen through you after your 3rd post...you don't fool me for a second.

 

[StanJ]

You just hate those scriptures don't you, it just drives you crazy to see the word of God displayed in context. You want people to be confused. I seen through you after your 3rd post...you don't fool me for a second.

I don't hate any of God's word I'm just really saddened by the fact that somebody of your age has no idea what the context actually is. Plus you refuse to engage people directly which is a very telling indictment of how you can't defend your position.
1 Peter 3:15

 

[resurrection33]

What I have written I have written.

I guess we could all say that.

 

[resurrection33]

You just hate those scriptures don't you, it just drives you crazy to see the word of God displayed in context. You want people to be confused. I seen through you after your 3rd post...you don't fool me for a second.

There are those of us who believe we should love our neighbors as ourselves.