Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[Grace777x70]

I believe truth comes down to identity.

Does a sheep ever change into a different animal? Does a sheep change into a goat? Does an orange tree ( which is good ) change into a briar tree? ( bad )

Does a human being change into another type of "species".

Our identity for those in Christ is that we belong to Him and are one spirit with the Lord. Our true identity is who we are in Christ. We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God.

Does the new creation in Christ that has become one with the Lord in spirit - change to something else? Does a son change into not being in the family?

The sign that we are true sons - is that our Father disciplines us. Hebrews 12

Then it comes down to: Is Jesus lying when He says that the Holy Spirit will be with you and in you forever? John 14:16

Me - I'm a believer that Jesus did not lie as this is plain talk - no parables to decipher.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing unrepentant and willful sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be set free from the bondage of sin and death.
​

The son does remain forever in the house.

We are sons of God within "the" Son.

John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.

 

[stonesoffire]

[h=1]In:

G1722[/h]ἐν
en
en
A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), for (. . . sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-) in (-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-) on, [open-] ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, [speedi-] ly, X that, X there (-in, -on), through (-out), (un-) to(-ward), under, when, where (-with), while, with (-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) prep.


Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I believe truth comes down to identity.

Does a sheep ever change into a different animal? Does a sheep change into a goat?

Yeah, but a goat can proclaim themselves to be a sheep, but proclaiming yourself something you are not is just self delusional and hypocrisy. God makes goats and sheep different, but they don't make themselves into something they really are not by just saying they "identify" as being a sheep, even though they are really just an old goat.

 

[bravethea]

God knows who are His own by His own Precious Blood amen

 

[Grace777x70]

Yeah, but a goat can proclaim themselves to be a sheep, but proclaiming yourself something you are not is just self delusional and hypocrisy. God makes goats and sheep different, but they don't make themselves into something they really are not by just saying they "identify" as being a sheep, even though they are really just an old goat.

True....here is the process for becoming a sheep which is being "in Christ." So, a sheep always remains a sheep. That's the main point of being in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, (1 ) the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, ( 2 ) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, ( 3)


The process is

1) that we hear the message of Christ

2) we believe the message of Christ

3) we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Isn't it exciting to know how great of a salvation we have in Christ's finished work for us on the cross and resurrection? It is all by grace through faith in what He has already done. We can all rejoice in Him.

 

[Chester]

So, a sheep always remains a sheep.

Don't think so - We had quite a few sheep -- they have all died and are now just plain dirt!

 

[Grace777x70]

Don't think so - We had quite a few sheep -- they have all died and are now just plain dirt!

LOL..did you get to eat them?..perhaps they will rise in the 1st resurrection...

 

[Chester]

LOL..did you get to eat them?..perhaps they will rise in the 1st resurrection...

Please, please! Don't make me laugh so hard!

Actually -- they decayed; the nutrients were absorbed by grass, which my goats ate -

And you can now see the whole process - the sheep became goats - which conclusively proves that a Christian can backslide and become a non-Christian.

 

[Grace777x70]

Please, please! Don't make me laugh so hard!

Actually -- they decayed; the nutrients were absorbed by grass, which my goats ate -

And you can now see the whole process - the sheep became goats - which conclusively proves that a Christian can backslide and become a non-Christian.

LOL.....ahhhh.... definitive proof that the sheep did indeed become goats...that was a good one!

...good sense of humor buddy. Joy is a sign of the kingdom of God within us.

Will the real goats and sheep please stand up...and just who is eating who in here.

Nothing will ever separate me from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus ...well maybe except for this animal that is eating me now.

The confusion of it all!...

 

[dcontroversal]

I like reading everyone's posts on the forums and then going to my Bible to gain my own understanding.* I do agree that once a person believes in Jesus Christ his/her past, present, and future sins have been forgiven.

Hebrews10 :26 has me stumped. Does this mean unless you sin unknowingly, it's not covered?

Hebrews 10:9

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The context is willfully turning your back upon the assembly an counting the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing.......and at the end of the day there is no more sacrifice for sins....Jesus paid for ALL sin when he said it is finished = paid in full.......

 

[dcontroversal]

For God so loved the world that whoever believes (Greek present tense - ongoingly continues to believe) in Him will not perish but has everlasting life.

Quite clear
- all who believe in Christ have eternal life
- those who do not believe do not have eternal life

If we believe not he abides faithful for he CANNOT DENY HIMSELF....try the word HAS (is HAVING)

 

[PeterJens]

My dilemma as a simple believer

I know many different types of believers, motivated by many issues in their lives.
Some chose to accept beliefs and theology that for me is just wacky heretical
stuff that reeks of exploitation and superstition.

So my problem is the fruit of their faith is not following the Lord but going off on
some distractions. This I find very grieving, but then I am partly trying to rationalise
something I have no control over.

Now it also appears that few who in their spiritual lives are prepared to go heretical
ever return. The apostles implied this is the way of the church and the people of God.
You know their fruit by their teaching and personality expression. But then again this
is also a choice, that each of us make. Let out love and something deep down changes,
put only on theology, and though the truths develop and heart stays cold and shut.

Quite a dilemma, but thankfully not ours to hold just to prepare of betrayal within
which is always part of learning to love and forgive no matter the circumstances.
Ours is to walk the road of discipleship

 

[Chester]

If we believe not he abides faithful for he CANNOT DENY HIMSELF....try the word HAS (is HAVING)

"If we believe not he abides faithful for he CANNOT DENY HIMSELF" ???

Sorry! Maybe I am quite dense! (or at least you probably think I am!) I am not sure what you are trying to say here?

'try the word HAS (is HAVING)"

You are right about that - that verb is also present tense - so we have this: the one who is ongoingly believing in Christ is ongoingly continuing to have eternal life Exactly! Amen!

 

[stonesoffire]

Yeah, but a goat can proclaim themselves to be a sheep, but proclaiming yourself something you are not is just self delusional and hypocrisy. God makes goats and sheep different, but they don't make themselves into something they really are not by just saying they "identify" as being a sheep, even though they are really just an old goat.

A goat is an idol worshipper. The only time I can see someone who's a goat that would present self as a sheep, is if one is into witchcraft and purposes to do evil somehow within a church.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

A goat is an idol worshipper. The only time I can see someone who's a goat that would present self as a sheep, is if one is into witchcraft and purposes to do evil somehow within a church.

The point being just because someone says they are of Christ does not mean they are truly chosen by God and are truly in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

On the basis of the language of scripture, Jesus talks only of His sheep, who listen
to His voice.

So it is possible to be a sheep that does not listen to His voice.
If you are a goat you will never become a sheep.
There are also wolves in sheeps clothing.
By implication a wolf is a wolf.

A sheep does not become a wolf or a wolf into a sheep.

The simple implication either you take following God seriously from the heart
or you do not.

 

[stonesoffire]

The point being just because someone says they are of Christ does not mean they are truly chosen by God and are truly in Christ.

I understood your point inspirit. I just don't agree with it.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Wouldnt you think that one would have to have this in ones heart first before being able to even understand being in Christ?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I understood your point inspirit. I just don't agree with it.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Wouldnt you think that one would have to have this in ones heart first before being able to even understand being in Christ?

So you don't think there are hypocrites? LOL Jesus said many would come in His name and would deceive many. I believe there are more phony (not born again of the Holy Spirit) Christians than true.

 

[stonesoffire]

So you don't think there are hypocrites? LOL Jesus said many would come in His name and would deceive many. I believe there are more phony (not born again of the Holy Spirit) Christians than true.

Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thouhypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

He called religious people who judged another by law strictly without mercy, hypocrites. Is there any other place in the Word that would define one?