Dualism, the doctrine of a disassociated identity
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The questions are not about God's words, but about me personally. God's words are true no matter what, so again, the only reason people go there is to accuse me, as if that makes the words of God I quoted in error somehow. That dog will not hunt, as we say in the country. 
All we want to know is which is it? We're not trying to judge you, we just want to know which of those you are - not saved or you don't sin any more.
1 John 5:18 KJV
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Here is the setup: I post this:
I say "if you sin - then you are a child of the devil and you are not born of God and you are really a servant of sin."
Then I post this verse to "prove" you are still a child of the devil.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So, because you still sin - you are a reprobate, a child of the devil, accursed, not born of God and condemned to hell because you hate God's words.
I only speak God's word and if you reject it - you are rejecting Him but that's what reprobates do.
I only speak God's words and you will not hear God's words so you are cursed.
( all this I said was a bunch of religious nonsense with some truth here and there sprinkled in but out of context with the whole gospel message of the grace and love of God for us in Christ's finished work )
How would a young Christian learning how to live by Christ within them feel and think after seeing this bunch of religious nonsense spoken to them? It has great potential for harm.
So, "personal application" of scriptures to me is very important.
That's the reason why we ask questions to find out what is really behind what is said. Anyone can post scripture out of context with the gospel and upset our faith and infect our minds with things that will nullify the grace of God in our lives from operating like it can. I just gave you an example of me doing it above.
But if you feel those types of postings as in my example above is appropriate - you are allowed to have that opinion. There are others that don't think it is appropriate and in fact think it is destructive to young Christians.
I'll just leave it at that. Bless you and have a great rest of the day.
H
We all have the Holy Spirit tho right? Teach people to depend on Him for answers.. I see too many folks everywhere doing all but that
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
Ok....let's say that you still sin from time to time and do a work of the flesh - what sin it is - is really irrelevant.
Here is the setup: I post this:
I say "if you sin - then you are a child of the devil and you are not born of God and you are really a servant of sin."
Then I post this verse to "prove" you are still a child of the devil.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So, because you still sin - you are a reprobate, a child of the devil, accursed, not born of God and condemned to hell because you hate God's words.
I only speak God's word and if you reject it - you are rejecting Him but that's what reprobates do.
I only speak God's words and you will not hear God's words so you are cursed.
( all this I said was a bunch of religious nonsense with some truth here and there sprinkled in but out of context with the whole gospel message of the grace and love of God for us in Christ's finished work )
How would a young Christian learning how to live by Christ within them feel and think after seeing this bunch of religious nonsense spoken to them? It has great potential for harm.
So, "personal application" of scriptures to me is very important.
That's the reason why we ask questions to find out what is really behind what is said. Anyone can post scripture out of context with the gospel and upset our faith and infect our minds with things that will nullify the grace of God in our lives from operating like it can. I just gave you an example of me doing it above.
But if you feel those types of postings as in my example above is appropriate - you are allowed to have that opinion. There are others that don't think it is appropriate and in fact think it is destructive to young Christians.
I'll just leave it at that. Bless you and have a great rest of the day.
Here is the setup: I post this:
I say "if you sin - then you are a child of the devil and you are not born of God and you are really a servant of sin."
Then I post this verse to "prove" you are still a child of the devil.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So, because you still sin - you are a reprobate, a child of the devil, accursed, not born of God and condemned to hell because you hate God's words.
I only speak God's word and if you reject it - you are rejecting Him but that's what reprobates do.
I only speak God's words and you will not hear God's words so you are cursed.
( all this I said was a bunch of religious nonsense with some truth here and there sprinkled in but out of context with the whole gospel message of the grace and love of God for us in Christ's finished work )
How would a young Christian learning how to live by Christ within them feel and think after seeing this bunch of religious nonsense spoken to them? It has great potential for harm.
So, "personal application" of scriptures to me is very important.
That's the reason why we ask questions to find out what is really behind what is said. Anyone can post scripture out of context with the gospel and upset our faith and infect our minds with things that will nullify the grace of God in our lives from operating like it can. I just gave you an example of me doing it above.
But if you feel those types of postings as in my example above is appropriate - you are allowed to have that opinion. There are others that don't think it is appropriate and in fact think it is destructive to young Christians.
I'll just leave it at that. Bless you and have a great rest of the day.
It's easy, you just need to understand past, present and future conditions concerning sin. The scriptures say for all have sinned, but the scriptures also say that all our sins are forgiven in Christ. So after all sins are cleansed, there remains 0 sins. If your sins are cleansed completely by Christ and forgiven you are no longer "in your old sins" and if you keep yourself from sin you will remain that way, "in Christ" but not "in sin". But and if you do perhaps sin, then you can repent, and Christ is willing to forgive that sin as well. But if you start sinning without repenting and turning back to Christ, you can be blotted out of the book of Life.
Here is a post I made on 1 John 1:8....
People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.
So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.
Here is a post I made on 1 John 1:8....
People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.
So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.
H
Jesus continued to ask how long He had to deal with unbelief, worry, fear.. showing the process of being renewed. Anything not from faith is sin.. Like them I have ways I thought all my life and things I did as habit... I'm being taught a new way that takes time just as it did when Jesus was by their side doing it in person..
I answered part of your post about I John, and I have a thread on Romans 7, but basically if you read Romans 6 and 8 you will see why Paul was talking the way he was, which was "after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh". So Paul was trying to relate to his yet carnal audience in a way they might understand, not that Paul himself was still serving sin. But Romans 6 and 8 shows how we can in fact be made free from sin and death by our Maker.
I'll be back after awhile and see if I can find that thread on Romans 7. Peace
I'll be back after awhile and see if I can find that thread on Romans 7. Peace
Here's the context or Romans 7.
Romans 7:14-24 KJV
[14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
All PRESENT tense speaking of RIGHT THEN when he wrote it.
Romans 7:14-24 KJV
[14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
All PRESENT tense speaking of RIGHT THEN when he wrote it.
- ISIT:
- It's easy, you just need to understand past, present and future conditions concerning sin. The scriptures say for all have sinned, but the scriptures also say that all our sins are forgiven in Christ. So after all sins are cleansed, there remains 0 sins. If your sins are cleansed completely by Christ and forgiven you are no longer "in your old sins" and if you keep yourself from sin you will remain that way, "in Christ" but not "in sin"
- Stones:
- Im not sure if you believe we are of two natures or are against it. I can't read all the posts here..but the truth is that when we are born again, its exactly what it says. We are no longer flesh, but spirit. A spiritual being never been on earth before after the fall of man. That new creation of God. We still have a soul. That soul has all the memorys of the way we were…all the experiences of that past and our life begins a process of relearning and learning what we have been given. And how to overcome all those past experiences and even future ones that we remain in Christ. To remain in Him is to eat of His body and drink of His blood. It becomes a life fully dependent on His sacrifice for righteousness. For righteousness is only obtained by faith through grace. The gift…always remains the gift of God. Not of our own works..or deeds of trying to please God but of His. His own sacrifice He gave to the world by offering His own Son.
- There might be an understanding of the word needed to know what it means in the greek, doeth.
G4160
ποιέω
poieō
poy-eh'-o
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.
Total KJV occurrences: 576
Many meanings to our english word doeth. The gist that we are given is that abiding in faith of the work of Jesus Christ in our life, which is always righteousness by faith, not of our own works, is the power of sancfication. Sanctifcation is the result of our life by seeing Him. Having revelation or truth revealed to us as we study or hear the preaching of the Word…etc. That is the result we want. But, it takes time for our soul to catch up to what we have in our spirit.
Bottom line…our minds need renewed to truth. And we can be confused as to what this truth is. Which is always the work of the enemy, to confuse and keep our understanding in darkness.
- ISIT:
- . But and if you do perhaps sin, then you can repent, and Christ is willing to forgive that sin as well. But if you start sinning without repenting and turning back to Christ, you can be blotted out of the book of Life.
- Stones:
- This is addressed in Hebrews. If we start in grace and go back to law, we have trampled on His precious blood sacrifice. This phrase goes back to the priests walking on the blood of animals. Have forgotten the whole story. I read this in Jewish teachings long ago, but I remember the point. There remains no other sacrifice given for our failures. Only grace will keep us. No condemnation as long as we walk in Spirit. We think this means to be good. It means to walk in His gift, righteousness…we are now justified, nothing against us. What can come against us to cause us shame? Nothing. If we are ashamed, continually thinking we are a failure, condemned within…that is what we have our minds set on. Not on Christ Jesus. Or His blood. He is for us forever, don't lose your confidence.
- ISIT:
- Here is a post I made on 1 John 1:8....
People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
Stones:
Good scriptures. Fellowshipping with Him, communing with Him, taking communion as the sign of our faith in His blood and body. Placing our all of our being on Him. Results exactly in what it says. Freedom from sin.
ISIT
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)
Stones:
Nature of sin. If we say we are not of a sinful nature, we think we have something to give for our cleansing. No, nothing but God is good.
ISIT:
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.
So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.
Stones:
We need to know what is said of sin, or the nature of sin that we all have, and what is said of sinning…how to overcome, and what we are now as to what we used to be.
One who has not yet been born again, translated from darkness to light, thinks he/she is a christian because of good works…is what these scriptures are speaking of versus those who know they are nothing without Him. And wholly depend on Him.
To know these things take time. The result is mercy and grace extended to others for we are all human, until God…
God is in the process of each one of us born of Him, to complete the whole man...bringing His Sons to glory.
Romans 7 shows the two conflicts that are going on in a believer. One is not the real them ( not their true nature ). The flesh even though it stems from the corrupted Adamic influence in the world is now not the real us.
When we die and go to be with the Lord - the flesh is not coming with us!...selah
The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ.
The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )
Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).
[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.
Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).
[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man),
[SUP]23[/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
italics = my words
Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13
We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."
We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "its" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.
We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth and we are to yield our members to the righteousness that is in us in Christ.
Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the Spirit - our true selves in Christ because Christ is joined to our spirit and His life will bear fruit on us the branches. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror.
We have such a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ! Let's keep our eyes on the Lord and not the circumstances of life. Peter walking on the water is a prefect picture of the true Christian life.
When we die and go to be with the Lord - the flesh is not coming with us!...selah
The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ.
The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )
Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).
[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.
Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).
[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man),
[SUP]23[/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
italics = my words
Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13
We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."
We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "its" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.
We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth and we are to yield our members to the righteousness that is in us in Christ.
Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the Spirit - our true selves in Christ because Christ is joined to our spirit and His life will bear fruit on us the branches. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror.
We have such a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ! Let's keep our eyes on the Lord and not the circumstances of life. Peter walking on the water is a prefect picture of the true Christian life.
Ok Posthuman here is that study on Romans 7,which I wrote about the 2 laws at work, and I'm also going to post Romans 6 in the following post to show you can indeed be set free from the law of sin and death that works in our members.....
I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is the same Law as the law of sin and death. But Paul makes clear in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin. So what is the law of sin and death? I compare the law of sin and death to be much like the law of gravity; we are all firstborn under it naturally by reason of Adams original sin.
Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,” So as it is also written, by nature we were the children of wrath Ephesians 2:3 and as by the judgement of one for sin was unto condemnation Romans 5:16 as the wages of sin is death= being under the law of sin and death.
We know this condemnation of sin was already in the world before the Law of Moses because death already reigned in the world. Romans 5:13 Notice we are told death reigned Romans 5:14“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”
That is an important clue in understanding what it means to be under the law of sin and death. When you are under the law of sin you are a servant of sin, like sin being the Devils desire ruling over you as it is written in Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death…”
People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:”
What Paul was showing in Romans 7 was the struggle and enmity between the law of the flesh and the law of the Spirit, these 2 spirits and 2 natures are contrary to one another. Notice in Romans 7 we are shown 2 laws, one is the law of sin and death, the other is the law of God. We already saw in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin, now notice Paul confirms in verse 13 the law of God is not death either.
Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
In the above we see the 2 laws (flesh vs. Spirit) warring against one another, but are we to remain in this state of captivity and bondage being under the law of sin and death? Scripture gives us the answer to this as well in Romans 8:1-4 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
What we see in the above is walking after the flesh is serving sin and =being under the law of sin and death. Thus when we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” So it is the Spirit of Christ (law of the Spirit of Life) that sets us free from the first nature that desires to walk in the flesh and serve sin.
Now some might say this does not mean we are set free from sin and death, just that we are set free from the law of God. But that is not what is being said above by Paul. To what benefit would it be to be only set free from a holy law, and not be set free from sin and death? All that would amount to is a bunch of lawless sinners. Besides that, the Gentiles were never even under the Law of Moses to begin with, so how can you be set free from a law that you were never even under? Makes no sense.
But the law that both Jews and Gentiles are firstborn under, is the law of sin and death. Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;”
So hopefully you will see in this that it is sin you truly need to be set free from by faith in Jesus Christ, because a servant of sin abides not in the house forever. Peace.
Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,” So as it is also written, by nature we were the children of wrath Ephesians 2:3 and as by the judgement of one for sin was unto condemnation Romans 5:16 as the wages of sin is death= being under the law of sin and death.
We know this condemnation of sin was already in the world before the Law of Moses because death already reigned in the world. Romans 5:13 Notice we are told death reigned Romans 5:14“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”
That is an important clue in understanding what it means to be under the law of sin and death. When you are under the law of sin you are a servant of sin, like sin being the Devils desire ruling over you as it is written in Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death…”
People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:”
What Paul was showing in Romans 7 was the struggle and enmity between the law of the flesh and the law of the Spirit, these 2 spirits and 2 natures are contrary to one another. Notice in Romans 7 we are shown 2 laws, one is the law of sin and death, the other is the law of God. We already saw in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin, now notice Paul confirms in verse 13 the law of God is not death either.
Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
In the above we see the 2 laws (flesh vs. Spirit) warring against one another, but are we to remain in this state of captivity and bondage being under the law of sin and death? Scripture gives us the answer to this as well in Romans 8:1-4 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
What we see in the above is walking after the flesh is serving sin and =being under the law of sin and death. Thus when we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” So it is the Spirit of Christ (law of the Spirit of Life) that sets us free from the first nature that desires to walk in the flesh and serve sin.
Now some might say this does not mean we are set free from sin and death, just that we are set free from the law of God. But that is not what is being said above by Paul. To what benefit would it be to be only set free from a holy law, and not be set free from sin and death? All that would amount to is a bunch of lawless sinners. Besides that, the Gentiles were never even under the Law of Moses to begin with, so how can you be set free from a law that you were never even under? Makes no sense.
But the law that both Jews and Gentiles are firstborn under, is the law of sin and death. Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;”
So hopefully you will see in this that it is sin you truly need to be set free from by faith in Jesus Christ, because a servant of sin abides not in the house forever. Peace.