How long is the tribulation?

[Persuaded]

Hi Persuaded, Have you read Ezekiel all the way through along with some of the other prophets like Zechariah?

Many times.
Do not confuse the millennial worship with today's worship or the temple worship before Jesus death and resurrection.
We are to worship in spirit and truth, not with the sacrifice of animals.
I will not be surprised if the temple is rebuilt and the old system of priest and animal sacrifice is restored by Israel.
I am not surprised at what passes as worship by some Christians today.
The whole point is that God will not approve or accept that old system of worship.
Its done. Its finished. It is unacceptable.

 

[Persuaded]

Hi Persuaded, Have you read Ezekiel all the way through along with some of the other prophets like Zechariah?

Why would God approve the building of a temple for the purpose of re-instituting a worship system during the time of tribulation that ignores what Jesus did on the cross?

 

[Bladerunner]

Why would God approve the building of a temple for the purpose of re-instituting a worship system during the time of tribulation that ignores what Jesus did on the cross?

Persuaded......I partially see where you are at...... Let me ask you this.....

What about this part of Daniel 9:27 do you not believe and WHY?

The first part of Daniel 9:27 states "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:"

Ok, what don't you believe about this sentence;

"or one week"; is seven years? OR

"the covenant with many"; that "the covenant" is an agreement or that the "many" refers to Israel. OR

"And he shall"; refers to the antichrist (Death and Sheol)

 

[Bladerunner]

Many times.
Do not confuse the millennial worship with today's worship or the temple worship before Jesus death and resurrection.
We are to worship in spirit and truth, not with the sacrifice of animals.
I will not be surprised if the temple is rebuilt and the old system of priest and animal sacrifice is restored by Israel.



Well you are somewhat right......."I will not be surprised if the temple is rebuilt and the old system of priest and animal sacrifice is restored by Israel."

first the temple will be rebuilt as is foretold in Daniel 9:27.

Now the only way an abomination of Desolate can happen as related to us from Revelation is that the Antichrist (who has Satan within) is within the 'Holy of Holies' that is within the Temple and declare that He is God.

Now do you have a problem with that statement alone. I know you already have problems with Daniel 9:27

I am not surprised at what passes as worship by some Christians today.
The whole point is that God will not approve or accept that old system of worship.
Its done. Its finished. It is unacceptable.

When the Antichrist creates the Abomination of Desolate (used only two times in the Bible) the last half of the tribulations known as the Great Tribulations (via Jesus Christ Matt 24:21).

Daniel 9:27 also says; "and in the midst of the week (1/2 of 7 years), he (antichrist) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, This where you say God does not like the sacrifices,,,, God may not like them but the Antichrist does not like them either.

So we come down to your belief that Daniel 9:27's "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week......" is God not the antichrist.

Am I right here? If so,,,,, Jesus is still in heaven at this time......Cannot be Him

If you can give me specifics of why you do not believe Daniel 9:27 has anything to do with 'what ever you believe to be true'

 

[samuel23]

What I often see folks doing is that they get hold of an idea and they use certain scriptures that do not actually fit the agenda, so they wrestle a meaning or a concept that is not really taught by that scripture or scriptures in order to make it all appear to go together. Many Christians believe that the Jews will build a Temple of God so that the Antichrist can go into it and proclaim that he is God. They ignore two scriptural truths that really mess that idea up. First, in 2Thess Paul made a definite statement that the church COULD NOT be gathered until AFTER the Antichrist is revealed by going into the Temple of God and claiming that he is god. People just pretend that this place is not in the bible?? Second, God stopped temple worship...I said GOD STOPPED TEMPLE WORSHIP. So how could Jews who have rejected Christ and are headed for hell BUILD A TEMPLE OF GOD?? Remember, Paul did not say that the Antichrist would go into a replica of the temple of God, Paul said that the Antichrist would go into the actual TEMPLE OF GOD. When Paul wrote that statement Paul called the church the Temple of God.

 

[Bladerunner]

What I often see folks doing is that they get hold of an idea and they use certain scriptures that do not actually fit the agenda, so they wrestle a meaning or a concept that is not really taught by that scripture or scriptures in order to make it all appear to go together. Many Christians believe that the Jews will build a Temple of God so that the Antichrist can go into it and proclaim that he is God. They ignore two scriptural truths that really mess that idea up. First, in 2Thess Paul made a definite statement that the church COULD NOT be gathered until AFTER the Antichrist is revealed by going into the Temple of God and claiming that he is god. People just pretend that this place is not in the bible?? Second, God stopped temple worship...I said GOD STOPPED TEMPLE WORSHIP. So how could Jews who have rejected Christ and are headed for hell BUILD A TEMPLE OF GOD?? Remember, Paul did not say that the Antichrist would go into a replica of the temple of God, Paul said that the Antichrist would go into the actual TEMPLE OF GOD. When Paul wrote that statement Paul called the church the Temple of God.

WOW......you are out there .......Don't think I can say anything to help you change your mind.....

 

[samuel23]

Only if you get God to rewrite the bible.

 

[Desertsrose]

Why would God approve the building of a temple for the purpose of re-instituting a worship system during the time of tribulation that ignores what Jesus did on the cross?

It's to fulfill His promises He made to Israel that haven't come to pass. Here's what the Ezekiel temple will look like.

Also, please read Ezekiel 40 and 41 again. God is describing everything to Ezekiel about how to build the temple, the rooms - He gives measurements for everything. God spent more time describing this temple than any of the others although the tabernacle got almost as much attention. And we know that was built.

<font size="4"><font face="verdana">[video=youtube;YNmERZkT6JM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNmERZkT6JM&amp;t=23s[/video]

 

[Desertsrose]

Ezekiel chapter 41

<font face="verdana" size="4">[video=youtube;rF4yEgmw5jg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF4yEgmw5jg[/video]

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello samuel23,

What I often see folks doing is that they get hold of an idea and they use certain scriptures that do not actually fit the agenda, so they wrestle a meaning or a concept that is not really taught by that scripture or scriptures in order to make it all appear to go together. Many Christians believe that the Jews will build a Temple of God so that the Antichrist can go into it and proclaim that he is God. They ignore two scriptural truths that really mess that idea up. First, in 2Thess Paul made a definite statement that the church COULD NOT be gathered until AFTER the Antichrist is revealed by going into the Temple of God and claiming that he is god. People just pretend that this place is not in the bible?? Second, God stopped temple worship...I said GOD STOPPED TEMPLE WORSHIP. So how could Jews who have rejected Christ and are headed for hell BUILD A TEMPLE OF GOD?? Remember, Paul did not say that the Antichrist would go into a replica of the temple of God, Paul said that the Antichrist would go into the actual TEMPLE OF GOD. When Paul wrote that statement Paul called the church the Temple of God.

"I ask then, did they (Israel) stumble so as to lose their share? Absolutely not! However, because of their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous. But if their trespass means riches for the world, and their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the first part of the dough is holy, so is the whole batch; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.

========================================

Seventy seven year periods where decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. Sixty-nine of those where fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off. God put that last seven years of the seventy seven and began to build the church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will appear and gather the church. Following that, God will take up where he left off with Israel, fulfilling that last seven years, which quickly approaching. The seventieth seven will begin when that ruler, the antichrist establishes his seven year covenant with Israel, which will allow them to build their temple and resume sacrifice and offering.

God has unfinished business with His people Israel, which will be fulfilled during that last seven years. The woman/Israel will give birth to a male child, which is a collective name for the 144,000 who will be caught up to God's throne in the middle of the seven years. At the setting up of the abomination, the woman/Israel, will be cared for out in the wilderness for 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

Yes, there will indeed be another temple, so that God can take up where he left off with Israel. The Sanhedrin has been reconvened for some time, they have been teaching their people how to sacrifice according the law, the priestly garments have been made and the blue prints for the temple have been drawn up and they are ready to go. This will happen when that antichrist is revealed allowing Israel to build their temple.

 

[TMS]

Like i have said before people will not change their minds if it means all their other beliefs fall apart as a result. like a bridge or a tower if you remove a basic pillar the whole structure falls.
The concept of rebuilding the temple and the 7 years of tribulation have been built up or built on until people will not see it any other way. the truth is they are not supported in the Bible and enough has been done to justify the false belief in major churches. If the Bible does not support it, it is presumption or a false belief.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks = 490 years for Daniels people = Gods people (Israel, Judea).
To do the things listed = clean up their act, repent and get ready for the most Holy.

The next verses .....gives the starting time and the way it will happen.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus came right on time and it was the beginning of the 70th week. He confirmed the covenant with His people and taught the gospel, He died 3 and half years after His baptism and at that point the temple curtain was ripped in holy place by God and the sacrifice became useless because Jesus became that sacrifice. The disciples continues to preach the gospel and the truth to the people but Israel continued to reject Jesus for another 3 and a half years. Their time was up and because they failed to anoint the most holy the Gospel went to the gentiles.

It might be more exciting to think that the last 7 years of Dan 9 are related to the second coming and there might be 7 years of tribulation but to use Dan chap 9 is twisting scripture.

 

[TMS]

Back to the dispensation doctrine, but let me get it right?

The temple will be rebuilt by the Jews and the Antichrist will pretend to be God in that temple??
The 70th week was separated from the 70 weeks and in those 7 years, the tribulation will happen and the mark of the beast and the secret rapture and the coming of Jesus at the end. ??

is this what you believe, please keep it short, just a summery.

 

[Bladerunner]

Like i have said before people will not change their minds if it means all their other beliefs fall apart as a result. like a bridge or a tower if you remove a basic pillar the whole structure falls.
The concept of rebuilding the temple and the 7 years of tribulation have been built up or built on until people will not see it any other way. the truth is they are not supported in the Bible and enough has been done to justify the false belief in major churches. If the Bible does not support it, it is presumption or a false belief.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks = 490 years for Daniels people = Gods people (Israel, Judea).
To do the things listed = clean up their act, repent and get ready for the most Holy.

The next verses .....gives the starting time and the way it will happen.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus came right on time and it was the beginning of the 70th week. He confirmed the covenant with His people and taught the gospel, He died 3 and half years after His baptism and at that point the temple curtain was ripped in holy place by God and the sacrifice became useless because Jesus became that sacrifice. The disciples continues to preach the gospel and the truth to the people but Israel continued to reject Jesus for another 3 and a half years. Their time was up and because they failed to anoint the most holy the Gospel went to the gentiles.

It might be more exciting to think that the last 7 years of Dan 9 are related to the second coming and there might be 7 years of tribulation but to use Dan chap 9 is twisting scripture.

So you and others have thrown out the Book of Revelation as nothing important. Everything has already happened. we are awaiting Jesus's second coming period.

 

[GaryA]

Like i have said before people will not change their minds if it means all their other beliefs fall apart as a result. like a bridge or a tower if you remove a basic pillar the whole structure falls.
The concept of rebuilding the temple and the 7 years of tribulation have been built up or built on until people will not see it any other way. the truth is they are not supported in the Bible and enough has been done to justify the false belief in major churches. If the Bible does not support it, it is presumption or a false belief.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks = 490 years for Daniels people = Gods people (Israel, Judea).
To do the things listed = clean up their act, repent and get ready for the most Holy.

The next verses .....gives the starting time and the way it will happen.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus came right on time and it was the beginning of the 70th week. He confirmed the covenant with His people and taught the gospel, He died 3 and half years after His baptism and at that point the temple curtain was ripped in holy place by God and the sacrifice became useless because Jesus became that sacrifice. The disciples continues to preach the gospel and the truth to the people but Israel continued to reject Jesus for another 3 and a half years. Their time was up and because they failed to anoint the most holy the Gospel went to the gentiles.

It might be more exciting to think that the last 7 years of Dan 9 are related to the second coming and there might be 7 years of tribulation but to use Dan chap 9 is twisting scripture.

I agree with what you wrote here, but do consider that:

~ the 'most holy' is Jesus

~ the 'anointing' occurred on the day of His baptism

God 'anointed' Jesus; it was not up to the Jews...

This was a 'head-of-the-Church' - not 'king-of-Israel' - type of anointing.

However, you are correct in saying ( or, implying ) that the end of the 70th week coincided with the end of the 'times of the Jews' and the beginning of the 'times of the Gentiles'.

 

[GaryA]

So you and others have thrown out the Book of Revelation as nothing important. Everything has already happened. we are awaiting Jesus's second coming period.

Not everything has already happened. There are things in Revelation that will happen before Christ returns. Only, [ with one small exception ] the prophetic statements of Daniel 9 have all already occurred.

 

[TMS]

So you and others have thrown out the Book of Revelation as nothing important. Everything has already happened. we are awaiting Jesus's second coming period.

No,, i believe in the book of Rev, and we are awaiting the second coming.
There are so many different interpretations of Rev that i can see why there is so much confusion. I know that Dispensationalism was founded on error (because of it's twisted teachings) and i believe that God reveals the truth in His time which means i wait on the Lord when it is questionable and hold on to the things that are sure.

 

[GaryA]

The problem with this is that we really DO NOT know when the 1290 days started.

Daniel 12:

[SUP]11[/SUP] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


The 1290 days start when these things occur.


This is not a "from-to" statement; everything you see above in red "goes together" -- what is not stated is what will happen at the end of the 1290 days. ( albeit, it is 'implied' in the context of the passage )

 

[TMS]

Some can say 10 years, others can say 7, or 1, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter when you are found in Christ. Sometimes things are not revealed in the scriptures and people claim to find light that isn't there and this just creates confusion. Two people can claim to be following the Bible and may read the same verve but interpret it differently, so it would be useless to debate because they are both fully convinced (proud, stubborn). We can only ask the Spirit to correct the error and leave it at that.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

What is this crackpot nonsense you keep banging on about DR?

Jerusalem was ravished and Solomon's Temple ransacked and destroyed in 587BC.

Ezekiel is writing after this event

40 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity,

and is given instructions on the rebuilding of the temple.
The captivity started 608BC so he is writing in 583BC, after the calamity.

What are you trying to suggest?

It's to fulfill His promises He made to Israel that haven't come to pass. Here's what the Ezekiel temple will look like.

Also, please read Ezekiel 40 and 41 again. God is describing everything to Ezekiel about how to build the temple, the rooms - He gives measurements for everything. God spent more time describing this temple than any of the others although the tabernacle got almost as much attention. And we know that was built.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Seventy seven year periods where decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 25 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that was the first year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon;
2 The which Jeremiah the prophet spake unto all the people of Judah, and to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying,

The seventy sevens were decreed on Judah and Jerusalem, not Israel and Jerusalem, Ahwatukee.

For someone so full of themselves, you really lack some pretty basic understanding.