Don't choke the BABY! Let new Christians drink their milk before you force feed them

[Grace777x70]

So where are we in the discussion of Hebrews 6:1-3?

I thought I saw Ariel say something about resurrection from the dead being the next one - is that right?

I have not been through the whole thread yet so I could be behind or maybe jumping ahead. I had answered Ariel when she asked me a question but maybe I missed a lot more.

 

[royalscot]

Matt - John does not want to baptise Jesus, but relents. Dove descends and confirms His ministry
Mark - John baptises Jesus, Dove lands on Him as he comes out of the water
Luke - Jesus baptized, Dove descends on Him.
John - No record of John baptising Jesus, but of testifying to Him.

John's gospel is not interested in Jesus's baptism, but in John's testimony of Jesus.
Maybe the writer did not see the baptism, but did see the testimony by John of
who Jesus was and wanted to record this.

johns gospel is prophetically wrote.
the other gospel are read as wrote, except the parables. (and also said jesus never talk to the crowd, without using a parable.) the apostle or writer of these book, filled in the times jesus was alone. or spoke to someone in private or in there house. etc

 

[royalscot]

condemnation has the same meaning as conviction.

and spiritual warfare has to be in truth not speculation. ie gifts of the spirit.

 

[Desertsrose]

And we come to thank God for people He uses to bless us, even if they meant it for harm, He used it for good. So we thank Him for people then sit there in wonderment like...I didn't see that one coming...!

Thank you dear sister! I do normally pray and just move on in the Lord exactly as you've said. I should have prayed first without allowing my furnace to heat up! Forgive me all for my unkind words.

Maybe it's time to do as Ariel did and put those on ignore who cause division rather than unity.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God

Let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works.

Under the Levitical sacrificial system, the individual brought his/her offering. The burnt offering, the sin offering, and the guilt offering required an offering of an animal.

The burnt offering and sin offering required the priest to place his hand upon the head of the animal and it would be accepted to make atonement (Lev 1:4, 4:4). This was representative of the sin of the individual being transferred to the animal and the innocence of the animal being transferred to the individual.

The Levitical offerings foreshadowed Christ's fulfillment once for all.

In Hebrews 10:1 we are told For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect and in Hebrews 10:11 we are told And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

And in Hebrews 10:12-14 we are told But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


To go on unto perfection we must not lay again that foundation foreshadowed through the Levitical system. To go on unto perfection, we understand that Christ offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God until His enemies be made His footstool. Truly He has perfected forever them that are sanctified.

Once we understand this foundational truth, we come to realization that which is written in Hebrews 10:19-25 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The end result of true repentance is that we can draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Ariel82]

condemnation has the same meaning as conviction.

and spiritual warfare has to be in truth not speculation. ie gifts of the spirit.

Conviction is the work of the HOLY SPIRIT and tells you that you have sinned BUT GOD CAN TEACH YOU A BETTER WAY.

Condemnation is from Satan and says that you are wrong and continues to say you are wrong WITHOUT showing you how to be right and good and do what God wants you to do.

Guess which one you practice?

 

[Ariel82]

So where are we in the discussion of Hebrews 6:1-3?

I thought I saw Ariel say something about resurrection from the dead being the next one - is that right?

I have not been through the whole thread yet so I could be behind or maybe jumping ahead. I had answered Ariel when she asked me a question but maybe I missed a lot more.

You're fine Grace. No worries.

Willie T, I already stated that I'd didn't get your 10 pages. Can you post a link or is it a pdf?

I can take you off ignore and you can resend it if you like, but I doubt it will help our failure to communicate since you have yet to affirm or reject my summary of your beliefs to this point.

I and it appears others are ready to move forward to resurrection of the dead?

I will compile some scriptures we can all reread.

Baptism is so symbolic: our adoption into God's family, our sins being washed by the blood of Christ, being filled with the HOLY spirit.

Laying on of hands makes us part of the Body of Christ.

Resurrection of the dead starts with our spirit, eventually our bodies will die or be replaced by New glorifies bodies when Christ returns.

For now we learn to walk and live as born again believers. We no longer do dead works, nor have a dead faith, but do good works and add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, brotherly kindness and love.

 

[Willie-T]

You're fine Grace. No worries.

Willie T, I already stated that I'd didn't get your 10 pages. Can you post a link or is it a pdf?

I can take you off ignore and you can resend it if you like, but I doubt it will help our failure to communicate since you have yet to affirm or reject my summary of your beliefs to this point.

I and it appears others are ready to move forward to resurrection of the dead?

I will compile some scriptures we can all reread.

Baptism is so symbolic: our adoption into God's family, our sins being washed by the blood of Christ, being filled with the HOLY spirit.

Laying on of hands makes us part of the Body of Christ.

Resurrection of the dead starts with our spirit, eventually our bodies will die or be replaced by New glorifies bodies when Christ returns.

For now we learn to walk and live as born again believers. We no longer do dead works, nor have a dead faith, but do good works and add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, brotherly kindness and love.

For your reading pleasure: Repentance: What Does the Bible Teach?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ressurection from the dead.

1. Only those in Christ are resurrected (those not in Christ are delivered to him for judgment see rev 20: 11-13)
2. Jesus promises those who entrust themselves to him, will be risen on the last day (john 6)
3. We will be risen, there will be no sickness, No death, No pain, and no suffering.

What a glorious day that day of redemption will be.

 

[Ariel82]

Acts 26:8
"Why is it considered incredible among you people if God does raise the dead?

Matthew 22:29-32
But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: read more.
'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Mark 12:24-27
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God? "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob'? read more.
"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

Luke 20:34-38
Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. read more.
"But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB. "Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."

1 Corinthians 15:35-44
But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. read more.
But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Matthew 27:52
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

 

[Ariel82]

For your reading pleasure: Repentance: What Does the Bible Teach?

Thanks.....

 

[Ariel82]

From Willie repentance article.....

What I disagree with;

1. "If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning."

Nope it means that you find no pleasure in your sins and have the inward desire to stop doing it.

I see though the misconception he is trying to address. However, I would like to note when people say "turn from sin" it does not necessary mean THEY MEAN sinless perfection, even if some people misunderstand the term to imply they have to be sinless to be saved.

We at least agree on his second point:

2. "A second faulty idea is that repentance is sorrow for sin. The Bible says in II Corinthians 7:10, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of...." Though godly sorrow may bring about repentance, it is not the same as repentance."

Who teaches you have to have a certain amount of sorrow to be saved? Its beginning to look like a field of strawmen...but I will continue reading..,(will post and comment on next post)

 

[Ariel82]

I agree with his 3rd point

"A third faulty idea about repentance is that it is reformation. Nearly all the religions of the world teach the idea that man must do something or be something in order to be saved. "

"If that be true, then man's behavior-good or bad-has nothing to do with obtaining salvation. Titus 3:5 says, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...." Ephesians 2:8, 9 tells us, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." It is impossible to mix grace and works. Salvation is either by grace or works; it cannot be a combination of the two."

 

[Willie-T]

From Willie repentance article.....

What I disagree with;

1. "If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning."

Nope it means that you find no pleasure in your sins and have the inward desire to stop doing it.

I see though the misconception he is trying to address. However, I would like to note when people say "turn from sin" it does not necessary mean THEY MEAN sinless perfection, even if some people misunderstand the term to imply they have to be sinless to be saved.

We at least agree on his second point:

2. "A second faulty idea is that repentance is sorrow for sin. The Bible says in II Corinthians 7:10, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of...." Though godly sorrow may bring about repentance, it is not the same as repentance."

Who teaches you have to have a certain amount of sorrow to be saved? Its beginning to look like a field of strawmen...but I will continue reading..,(will post and comment on next post)

You didn't even read the article before you began denying it???????? Don't bother reading any more if that is your idea of studying..... reading just enough till you can try to refute it some sentences?

You and I obviously don't even agree that someone should be read all the way through..... not read in Twitter bursts....... before you can say what they said.

 

[Ariel82]

A fourth faulty idea about repentance is that it is penance. Dr. Harry Ironside said:

"Penance is not repentance. Penance is the effort in some way to atone for wrong done.


I agree with his 4th point.

However how he defines repentance has many problems.

1. His quotes verse

"Romans 11:29 says, "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

My bible says "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

 

[Ariel82]

I agree with his conclusion.

"Believe" in these verses means to trust, to depend on, to rely on. Nothing could be plainer. All one has to do to have everlasting life is trust Jesus Christ. Jesus has already died for the sinner and all we need do is depend on Him for salvation. But He warns in verse 36, "He that believeth not the Son [does not depend on the Son] shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

A man cannot trust Christ without repenting.[

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

From Willie repentance article.....

What I disagree with;

1. "If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning."

Nope it means that you find no pleasure in your sins and have the inward desire to stop doing it.

I see though the misconception he is trying to address. However, I would like to note when people say "turn from sin" it does not necessary mean THEY MEAN sinless perfection, even if some people misunderstand the term to imply they have to be sinless to be saved.

We at least agree on his second point:

2. "A second faulty idea is that repentance is sorrow for sin. The Bible says in II Corinthians 7:10, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of...." Though godly sorrow may bring about repentance, it is not the same as repentance."

Who teaches you have to have a certain amount of sorrow to be saved? Its beginning to look like a field of strawmen...but I will continue reading..,(will post and comment on next post)

Yes, it doesn't mean they believe what someone might think they believe. I think it means to turn from my unbelief. Unbelief is sin. The opposite of unbelief to me is belief. I truly think all sin springs from unbelief. So when it is said: turn from your sin, my mind translates it to: turn from my unbelief and turn toward God and believe.

 

[Ariel82]

Wow Willie, judgemental much? I did read the whole article before posting. Then I went back and commented on points of the article I found troubling and made a brief summary of each main point.

Happens to be the way i learn.

Why do you have such issues with it?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

A fourth faulty idea about repentance is that it is penance. Dr. Harry Ironside said:

"Penance is not repentance. Penance is the effort in some way to atone for wrong done.


I agree with his 4th point.

However how he defines repentance has many problems.

1. His quotes verse

"Romans 11:29 says, "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

My bible says "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

They sort of mean the same thing to me. They are irrevocable meaning God will not change His mind and revoke them. And without repentance means the same thing to me: He will not change His mind...

 

[Willie-T]

Yes, it doesn't mean they believe what someone might think they believe. I think it means to turn from my unbelief. Unbelief is sin. The opposite of unbelief to me is belief. I truly think all sin springs from unbelief. So when it is said: turn from your sin, my mind translates it to: turn from my unbelief and turn toward God and believe.

But, they did NOT disbelieve. They were very devout in the only religion they had ever known, and believed whole-heartedly in it.

We cannot read the Bible as though those people had all the supposed information of the 21st-century.