When are we married?

[presidente]

You know you are really married when the mother-in-law comes for a weekend and stays indefinitely....lol..just kidding...

My in-laws are staying with me for an extended period of time. My mother-in-law just took a little trip to visit one of her relatives, though.

 

[Grace777x70]

My in-laws are staying with me for an extended period of time. My mother-in-law just took a little trip to visit one of her relatives, though.

That means you are married for sure then.......

Hopefully they are good ones that know the Lord. There are many good in laws that encourage us in the Lord.

 

[presidente]

That means you are married for sure then.......

Hopefully they are good ones that know the Lord. There are many good in laws that encourage us in the Lord.

One of them is a Muhammadan.

 

[MattTooFor]

A young man goes to visit a young virgin he likes with two of his friends. He declares to his two friends that he is married to the virgin and she agrees. They go off behind the bushes and have sex? Her father finds out about it and is very angry at him.

If I had just explained that the people who wish to be married need only state their marital commitment to the members of their "community" (whoever that might include-whether it's a miniscule 5 people or a thousand people)...how do you get from that, that the dad of one of the partners would have not been informed?

And what was this bizarre reference to people "having sex behind a bush" with a couple of their buddies standing by? A really horrific, dishonest misrepresentation of what I said.

I wouldn't have wanted anyone to say my wife was a fornicator.

Another very, very strange awkward thing to say. And why wouldn't you refer to the misconduct of both genders, by the way?

Anyway, if two people have stood before their community and expressed a marital vow, they can't legitimately be accused of wrongdoing. They are now married. They have stated a marriage vow before their community. No "pastor" is required. And no secular bureaucrat. And again, there is no prescribed marriage ritual in the Bible.

 

[MattTooFor]

Sex is marriage.. God keeps it simple for us

Pretty close to the truth. The only thing is...in order to avoid an "appearance of evil" (1Thess.5:22), the two partners should let everybody know they're committed to each other for life. In the Old Testament, there were times when all that had to happen was...for the man to "walk into the tent" of the woman and they were then married (Gen. 24:67). The "stepping into the tent" was all the statement that was required. It's a little different now!

 

[presidente]

If I had just explained that the people who wish to be married need only state their marital commitment to the members of their "community" (whoever that might include-whether it's a miniscule 5 people or a thousand people)...how do you get from that, that the dad of one of the partners would have not been informed?

Informed? Informed? the father gives the daughter in marriage. Jesus even mentioned giving in marriage. Paul mentioned it as well.

And what was this bizarre reference to people "having sex behind a bush" with a couple of their buddies standing by? A really horrific, dishonest misrepresentation of what I said.

Change it to the village with a party without the father consenting then.

Another very, very strange awkward thing to say. And why wouldn't you refer to the misconduct of both genders, by the way?

As a husband, I wouldn't want people to talk that way about my wife, so that's a motivation for doing things in a respectable way. I think it is a good way to think, considering all the men these days who don't care about ruining a young woman's reputation by sleeping with her. If a man loves a woman, he shouldn't want to dishonor her.

Anyway, if two people have stood before their community and expressed a marital vow, they can't legitimately be accused of wrongdoing.

If the young couple in my scenario had fornicated and the community said they could marry, but the father disagreed, to whom did God give the right to make the choice in the scripture I quoted.

They are now married. They have stated a marriage vow before their community. No "pastor" is required. And no secular bureaucrat. And again, there is no prescribed marriage ritual in the Bible.

How do you make the leap from father to community? Where is community acknowledgement the key in scripture?

 

[Magenta]

Informed? Informed? the father gives the daughter in marriage.
Jesus even mentioned giving in marriage. Paul mentioned it as well.

Women are no longer considered the property of their fathers or husbands.
We are no longer living two thousand years ago. It was not very long ago
that women won the right to be legally considered a person. Do you
think Jesus or Paul would disapprove? Yes, we have come a long way

 

[maxwel]

Women are no longer considered the property of their fathers or husbands.
We are no longer living two thousand years ago. It was not very long ago
that women won the right to be legally considered a person. Do you
think Jesus or Paul would disapprove? Yes, we have come a long way

Women are no longer property...

well that explains why I can never find one on Amazon.

 

[AbideinVine]

HAHAHAHAHA maxwel!

 

[presidente]

Women are no longer considered the property of their fathers or husbands.
We are no longer living two thousand years ago. It was not very long ago
that women won the right to be legally considered a person. Do you
think Jesus or Paul would disapprove? Yes, we have come a long way

We are talking about the Bible's teachings, not secular law or the stuff they chant in feminist marches in Washington, DC. Women were legally people in the Old Testament as well, though they probably did not use a term that would directly translate 'legal person'.

Corporations are legal persons under US law, too, for what it's worth. So legal persons can be bought and sold under US law.

 

[John146]

That is not Biblical. In the Old Testament, if a man seduced a virgin, he was NOT instantly married to her. He was required to marry her, but only if her father gave her in marriage. Either way, he had to pay the bride price for her. If the father gave her in marriage, they were married. If not, they were not married.



Look at a similar case with Boaz and Ruth. Boaz agreed to take Ruth as his wife before sleeping with her.

In the New Testament, in I Corinthians 7, we read of giving virgins in marriage, but we also read that the widow may marry whomever she will, but only in the Lord.

Did Jacob and Leah exchange vows? Nope. Laban sent Leah instead of Rachael into the tent where Jacob was that night and lay with him becoming his wife instead of Rachael.

Can you show in Scripture where marriage is the exchange of vows?

 

[Grace777x70]

Women are no longer property...

well that explains why I can never find one on Amazon.

Lol...it all went down hill when they were allowed to vote - it's almost as if they are humans too...

( In Christ there is neither male nor female )

 

[presidente]

Did Jacob and Leah exchange vows? Nope. Laban sent Leah instead of Rachael into the tent where Jacob was that night and lay with him becoming his wife instead of Rachael.

Can you show in Scripture where marriage is the exchange of vows?

I am not arguing that a marriage is an exchange of vows. I think it's okay to have a ceremony where they make a commitment, but I was arguing against the idea that the Bible teaches a marriage is an exchange of vows between the husband and wife, even though it is described as with the word covenant.

 

[Grace777x70]

How a marriage is recognized is different in many cultures. In some they put as bone in the other's nose and they are married.

Marriage is a matter of the heart and a covenant with the two people and it's the "cleaving" part that is the focus in my mind no matter how a culture manifest the announcement of this cleaving - man and wife too I want to add.

 

[resurrection33]

It's probably a daft question, but when are we married according to the Bible. Is it through ceremony, sexual activity, or when a born or unborn child is created.

I ask because the Bible says you become one flesh, potentially during conception.

I don't know if you'll find an answer for this in the Bible, but I suspect the Lord considers two people to be married when the relationship is consummated.

 

[Dai3234]

Women are no longer property...

well that explains why I can never find one on Amazon.

Maybe not Amazon, there a bit more expensive to buy but available for mutual sale agreement in many countries. Polish brides etc. But my point at the beginning was about who is married to who? You have 7 marriages, repent later, but who are you married to? When you loved and maybe still love them all, it just didn't work out ( never been married myself).

 

[Dai3234]

Note: this area seems to have been figured out in part. It seems to be about the accepting love and giving love on both sides in agreement. But does not resolve order of marriages if they all agreed and loved.

 

[Demi777]

Well read John 4

“I have no husband,” the woman replied. Jesus said to her, “You are correct to say that you have no husband. 18In fact, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. You have spokentruthfully.

So what about a girl who had several sexual partners during her life.

Is she married to all?

 

[presidente]

I just wanted to put the idea that 'one flesh' referred to having children. Paul argued against having sex with a prostitute because he who fornicates with a prostitute is one with her in body. I Corinthians 6.

 

[MattTooFor]

Informed? Informed? the father gives the daughter in marriage.

Who said this was a "virgin" - lol? Who said the two people hadn't already received approval...from whomever they needed or wished to receive approval? Who said they weren't already living together "in sin" for 18 years? Who said the dad wasn't a deadbeat who left the family long ago and lives with his girlfriend in Las vegas and couldn't care less who his daughter marries and barely has any contact? Who said this wasn't a 48-year-old woman on her second marriage? Who said these weren't two retirees in their 60's?

No one had limited the discussion to "virgins" - lol. The thread has no such limitations. We're talking about the entire gamut of humanity, whoever among them might desire to be married. You're off-topic. Off on some argumentative tangent no one is talking about. Need to start a separate thread about what apparently is another of your false doctrines, unfortunately: Living under OT laws and rituals.

I say again - if two people stand up before their own "community" and state their life commitment, whether they do so in person or by email, by texting, or by pigeon...they are then free to commence with their marriage.

Good grief, but are you EVER weirdly argumentative and unpleasant...with your unseemly references to "sex behind a bush" (the way you characterized my comments), your wife's "fornication", and what-not. Weird inappropriate stuff. The other thread - same thing: Very, very odd and very, very cold, unpleasant stuff.

And you've stumbled into sexism. The OT's now-defunct application of morality doesn't fit into the NT era. Both young people (since you were mistakenly envisioning two young virgins desiring marriage) would equally need to get any approval that would be appropriate for younger folks who wish to honor the advisories of their parents. When you say you're only concerned about the one gender falling into sin...bro, both genders are equally accountable! But...get your own thread.