Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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Oh believe me I have tried. She is one of those people who loves to give advice but God forbid you give her correction or disagree with her and she is a very emotional person so she gets really stressed out and upset in these kind of discussions and she has a pace maker for her heart so I don't like to stress her out
YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION. Once you're saved, you're good. 
'nuff said..
'nuff said..
Who made you the expert? God?
It's not "nuff said". Sorry.
OSAS is one of the worst doctrines a Christian person could ever have come up with.
It goes against EVERYTHING Jesus taught.
It's dangerous for new Christians to believe that they could do whatever they want to and still be saved.
It's dangerous for them to believe they could leave the protecting arms of Jesus and still end up in heaven.
Just because YOU believe this doctrine to be true, does NOT make it so.
If fact, theologians before Mr. Calvin never even had this idea in mind, except for the predestionation concept - which does not even apply, and definitely double predestination does not apply.
BTW, I only use ONE verse for this and it covers everything one could ever say:
John 3:16
"For God SO LOVED the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in Him, should not PERISH, but have eternal life." NASB
Please do not shrug this doctrine off lightly.
Fran
I agree with yes we all fall away from the path but we go back to God seeking forgiveness not to be saved again but to honor God showing we acknowledge our wrong doing even though we are already forgiven. But for a person to be saved as a child but turn from God in their teenage years and never again repented. I just can't swallow how a person like that would still be saved. Because then that opens the door to once saved it doesn't matter how we live.
You're right Roughsoul.
Just by using common sense you've arrived at the proper conclusion, which is supported by Jesus.
Here are some verses for you:
Mathew 5:16-19
Mathew 3:10
2 Peter 2:20-22
Just the verses in 2 Peter prove beyong the shadow of a doubt that one could lose his salvation. Not by sinning, BTW, you're absolutely correct, but by abandoning the protecting arms of the Lord by denying Him and abandoning Him.
Stay with Jesus, Stay saved.
Fran
I don't allow a difference in doctrine understanding to stress me out. I don't debate doctrine to prove myself right and others wrong I debate doctrine to learn and grow and to help others to learn and grow and develop a deeper bond with God that is all.
I know many people come here simply to debate and many enemies are made because the motives of the people doing it are not the right motives. My intentions are not of that sort so I rarely am stressed out by such arguments
I know many people come here simply to debate and many enemies are made because the motives of the people doing it are not the right motives. My intentions are not of that sort so I rarely am stressed out by such arguments
Excuse you.. Nobody made me the expert. It just doesn't make sense to have to get saved over and over again. Jesus didn't hang on the cross more than once, OBVIOUSLY.. We ALL live in sin, yes even as Christians. And (most of) we repent of those sins. Obviously a believer is saved, and saved ONCE. Not a ten million time deal. Repentance is the key to being and remaining saved. Like I said, I believe we will be given one last chance to repent at the final judgment. We all "have left the protective arms of Jesus" at one time or another. It's called stumbling off the path. But He stands there patiently, and waits for us to return to Him. And indeed, who BELIEVES in Him shall not perish. I don't take anything lightly. Ask anyone on this site..
And (most of) we repent of those sins. Obviously a believer is saved, and saved ONCE. Not a ten million time deal. Repentance is the key to being and remaining saved. Like I said, I believe we will be given one last chance to repent at the final judgment. We all "have left the protective arms of Jesus" at one time or another. It's called stumbling off the path. But He stands there patiently, and waits for us to return to Him. And indeed, who BELIEVES in Him shall not perish. I don't take anything lightly. Ask anyone on this site..
The first paragraph of Wesley's argument from experience is worth repeating in its entirely (emphasis added). Acting as his own interviewer, Wesley writes:
Do you know, have you seen, any instance of persons who found redemption in the blood of Jesus, and afterwards fell away, and yet were restored, -- 'renewed again to repentance?' " Yea, verily; and not one, or an hundred only, but, I am persuaded,several thousands. In every place where the arm of the Lord has been revealed, and many sinners converted to God, there are several found who "turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them." For a great part of these "it had been better never to have known the way of righteousness." It only increases their damnation, seeing they die in their sins. But others there are who "look unto him they have pierced, and mourn," refusing to be comforted. And, sooner or later, he surely lifts up the light of his countenance upon them; he strengthens the hands that hang down, and confirms the feeble knees; he teaches them again to say, "My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit rejoiceth in God my Saviour." Innumerable are the instances of this kind, of those who had fallen, but now stand upright. Indeed, it is so far from being an uncommon thing for a believer to fall and be restored, that it is rather uncommon to find any believers who are not conscious of having been backsliders from God, in a higher or lower degree, and perhaps more than once, before they were established in faith.
Does this mean that it is impossible for persons to fall so far from grace once received that they will never end up in Hell? By no means. Hell is surely the potential destination for all who are not living into "that holiness without which no one can see God" (Hebrews 12:14, a phrase frequently quoted in the sermons and journals of John Wesley). His point is that despite whatever the condition of our souls may be, God is always calling, always wooing, always pleading, and always working and leaving the way open for our faith to be renewed, our hearts to be quickened by grace, and our souls to be brought to life and health again.
Do you know, have you seen, any instance of persons who found redemption in the blood of Jesus, and afterwards fell away, and yet were restored, -- 'renewed again to repentance?' " Yea, verily; and not one, or an hundred only, but, I am persuaded,several thousands. In every place where the arm of the Lord has been revealed, and many sinners converted to God, there are several found who "turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them." For a great part of these "it had been better never to have known the way of righteousness." It only increases their damnation, seeing they die in their sins. But others there are who "look unto him they have pierced, and mourn," refusing to be comforted. And, sooner or later, he surely lifts up the light of his countenance upon them; he strengthens the hands that hang down, and confirms the feeble knees; he teaches them again to say, "My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit rejoiceth in God my Saviour." Innumerable are the instances of this kind, of those who had fallen, but now stand upright. Indeed, it is so far from being an uncommon thing for a believer to fall and be restored, that it is rather uncommon to find any believers who are not conscious of having been backsliders from God, in a higher or lower degree, and perhaps more than once, before they were established in faith.
Does this mean that it is impossible for persons to fall so far from grace once received that they will never end up in Hell? By no means. Hell is surely the potential destination for all who are not living into "that holiness without which no one can see God" (Hebrews 12:14, a phrase frequently quoted in the sermons and journals of John Wesley). His point is that despite whatever the condition of our souls may be, God is always calling, always wooing, always pleading, and always working and leaving the way open for our faith to be renewed, our hearts to be quickened by grace, and our souls to be brought to life and health again.
Hi Blain,
Neither do I come here to debate. I could use my husband for that!
I do debate this one issue however, because I believe it's very damaging to teach new Christians that once one is saved he is saved for life.
Think of the ramifications. Does it not bother you that a brother could be put in danger of his salvation by believing that he could abandon God, sin, and still be saved?
This bother me very much. We all sin and God will forgive us, but we do have to remain in our faith.
It is faith that saves us.
If you have faith - you are saved.
If you don't have faith - you are not saved.
I feel this is very important and is not a subject to be taken lightly.
Fran
Neither do I come here to debate. I could use my husband for that!
I do debate this one issue however, because I believe it's very damaging to teach new Christians that once one is saved he is saved for life.
Think of the ramifications. Does it not bother you that a brother could be put in danger of his salvation by believing that he could abandon God, sin, and still be saved?
This bother me very much. We all sin and God will forgive us, but we do have to remain in our faith.
It is faith that saves us.
If you have faith - you are saved.
If you don't have faith - you are not saved.
I feel this is very important and is not a subject to be taken lightly.
Fran
So you admit you believe you have to be saved countless times over? I can't even express how silly that is. If that were true, Jesus would have to die on the cross every time we sin, and THAT would be ridiculous. Apparently him dying ONCE for your sins isn't enough? You'd rather see him hang countless times over?
Debating is not a bad thing it's the intentions behind the debating that makes it good or bad and I am glad you have the right motives to debate. I am not a believer in osas and I think that new Christians would be better off not believing it either however this is a touchy subject and the thing that will affect the hearts of new believers the most is not the topic itself but how we react and speak of the topic.
I never know who is watching as new believers and hidden users are on these forums all the time and so I make it a point to always respond in love understanding and never attack, I have seen God use this to affect people far more than proving or disproving a certain doctrine.
subjects like these are never fully proven other wise the issue would not be a constant battle in every thread on the subject but we can however do our best to show our evidence and understanding of the subject in a mature calm and Christ like manner, that is what will affect the hearts of the people.
I never know who is watching as new believers and hidden users are on these forums all the time and so I make it a point to always respond in love understanding and never attack, I have seen God use this to affect people far more than proving or disproving a certain doctrine.
subjects like these are never fully proven other wise the issue would not be a constant battle in every thread on the subject but we can however do our best to show our evidence and understanding of the subject in a mature calm and Christ like manner, that is what will affect the hearts of the people.
Excuse you.. Nobody made me the expert. It just doesn't make sense to have to get saved over and over again. Jesus didn't hang on the cross more than once, OBVIOUSLY.. We ALL live in sin, yes even as Christians. And (most of) we repent of those sins. Obviously a believer is saved, and saved ONCE. Not a ten million time deal. Repentance is the key to being and remaining saved. Like I said, I believe we will be given one last chance to repent at the final judgment. We all "have left the protective arms of Jesus" at one time or another. It's called stumbling off the path. But He stands there patiently, and waits for us to return to Him. And indeed, who BELIEVES in Him shall not perish. I don't take anything lightly. Ask anyone on this site..
And (most of) we repent of those sins. Obviously a believer is saved, and saved ONCE. Not a ten million time deal. Repentance is the key to being and remaining saved. Like I said, I believe we will be given one last chance to repent at the final judgment. We all "have left the protective arms of Jesus" at one time or another. It's called stumbling off the path. But He stands there patiently, and waits for us to return to Him. And indeed, who BELIEVES in Him shall not perish. I don't take anything lightly. Ask anyone on this site..
I don't think she means saved over and over. I believe she means once saved it would of been better to not know God at all than to know God but turn away from him.[h=1]2 Peter 2:21Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT="]21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them.[/FONT]
Yes, but if that's true, that verse here, then don't you think NONE of us would be able to know God? Many here, and in the world, have turned away from God, be it for months, years, decades. Then eventually turned back to Him.Did they have to get saved again to receive His forgiveness? I don't believe that..