Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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It doesn't have to do with OSAS. It has to do with your previous post in which you say peter didn't want to deny Jesus but he had to do it to be faithfully obedient. So I asked if this meant that since God told a prophet Israel would not listen that Israel wanted to listen and not kill him but they had to sin to be obedient...?
G
And what a sweet and beautiful freedom it is!
“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”
2 Corinthians 3:17 NIV
“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.”
Galatians 5:1 NIV
“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”
2 Corinthians 3:17 NIV
“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.”
Galatians 5:1 NIV
i would agree with this list totally except you left out a few things that are important i think . you are close to the same page as i am on this though it seems . you probably just wanted to keep it short and sweet though ..lol .. as you will see the more i post , i have a hard time doing that usually ..lol .. so basically im gonna add a few steps .
my order or list would be..
(this list could start sooner about the actions of the lord but ..)
A.someone sent or given instructions to stay or go to usually preach the word somewhere(romans10:15 outward action of the lord by way of the spirit james2:21-22)
B.preaching the word(romans10:8 outward action of a current believer justifying their faith james2:21-22)
1.hearing the word (romans10:14 action of a non-believer)
2.believing the word you heard(justified by faith as abraham was, romans4:2-3)
3.confessing that you believe what you heard(romans10:9)outward action justifying that belief , reference to james2:21-22)
4.repenting based on what you believe and heard(acts2:38)
5.baptism by water(outward action justifying our repentance james2;21-22, 1peter3:21)
6.receive or be baptized the holy spirit (outward action by the lord justifying his word and promise)
of course in some instances and examples these are out of order but they can all be found in the examples of someone being born again (getting saved) including the thief on the cross . the first two i put A and B because i think those are more actions of the lord or an existing believer than a new believer. like i said ,those action of the lord can actually start sooner and have more steps but that would almost involve the whole bible and the actions of the lord throughout it if you really think about it.
lets put it to the test with an example.
A.sent or commanded to stay or go someplace
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
action of the believers that was sent was staying in jerusalem as the lord commanded acts1:5-acts2:13
B.preach the word
acts2:14-36 action of a current believer
1.hearing
2.believing
3.confession they believe what they heard
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (this question shows they believed what they heard,which was the word or the gospel which is a confession of faith)
4.repentance
5.baptism by water
6.baptism of the holy spirit
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
notice there is absolutely no mention of a sinners prayer or outward confession of being a sinner. there is only one example of an outward confession of being a sinner , it was the thief on the cross. why was he granted salvation without water baptism which according to scripture is required ? his outward confession of being a sinner counts as an outward action of his repentance which normally is water baptism . he obviously couldnt do water baptism because he was nailed to a cross . that is why he was saved without being baptized with water, because of that action of him openly admitting he was as sinner , he was justified . actions justify us but do not save us . if need be i will go step by step to show how he fulfilled steps 1-5 but not 6 because the holy spirit wasnt given out yet .
whether it is ok to simply confess you are a sinner instead of getting baptized by water is a subject for a different thread i believe .
ephesians1:13-14 is also key to understanding whether we can "lose our salvation" based on the popular definiton or usage of the word "saved". this might be something i would disagree with in your post if im understanding what youre saying about it correctly.(to be discussed at later time)
i would disagree with your interpretation of john14:16 too . however after thinking about where that discussion will lead, and how many rabbit trails will be gone down , i think that it is best to save that for a later time too.. lol
a perfect plan of coming to the faith engineered by the lord ! thank you for posting this ! god bless !
p.s. even though i firmly believe that the sinners prayer is not scriptural , i am in no way saying someone who came to the faith that way cant and/or wont be saved .
my order or list would be..
(this list could start sooner about the actions of the lord but ..)
A.someone sent or given instructions to stay or go to usually preach the word somewhere(romans10:15 outward action of the lord by way of the spirit james2:21-22)
B.preaching the word(romans10:8 outward action of a current believer justifying their faith james2:21-22)
1.hearing the word (romans10:14 action of a non-believer)
2.believing the word you heard(justified by faith as abraham was, romans4:2-3)
3.confessing that you believe what you heard(romans10:9)outward action justifying that belief , reference to james2:21-22)
4.repenting based on what you believe and heard(acts2:38)
5.baptism by water(outward action justifying our repentance james2;21-22, 1peter3:21)
6.receive or be baptized the holy spirit (outward action by the lord justifying his word and promise)
of course in some instances and examples these are out of order but they can all be found in the examples of someone being born again (getting saved) including the thief on the cross . the first two i put A and B because i think those are more actions of the lord or an existing believer than a new believer. like i said ,those action of the lord can actually start sooner and have more steps but that would almost involve the whole bible and the actions of the lord throughout it if you really think about it.
lets put it to the test with an example.
A.sent or commanded to stay or go someplace
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
action of the believers that was sent was staying in jerusalem as the lord commanded acts1:5-acts2:13
B.preach the word
acts2:14-36 action of a current believer
1.hearing
2.believing
3.confession they believe what they heard
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (this question shows they believed what they heard,which was the word or the gospel which is a confession of faith)
4.repentance
5.baptism by water
6.baptism of the holy spirit
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
notice there is absolutely no mention of a sinners prayer or outward confession of being a sinner. there is only one example of an outward confession of being a sinner , it was the thief on the cross. why was he granted salvation without water baptism which according to scripture is required ? his outward confession of being a sinner counts as an outward action of his repentance which normally is water baptism . he obviously couldnt do water baptism because he was nailed to a cross . that is why he was saved without being baptized with water, because of that action of him openly admitting he was as sinner , he was justified . actions justify us but do not save us . if need be i will go step by step to show how he fulfilled steps 1-5 but not 6 because the holy spirit wasnt given out yet .
whether it is ok to simply confess you are a sinner instead of getting baptized by water is a subject for a different thread i believe .
ephesians1:13-14 is also key to understanding whether we can "lose our salvation" based on the popular definiton or usage of the word "saved". this might be something i would disagree with in your post if im understanding what youre saying about it correctly.(to be discussed at later time)
i would disagree with your interpretation of john14:16 too . however after thinking about where that discussion will lead, and how many rabbit trails will be gone down , i think that it is best to save that for a later time too.. lol
a perfect plan of coming to the faith engineered by the lord ! thank you for posting this ! god bless !
p.s. even though i firmly believe that the sinners prayer is not scriptural , i am in no way saying someone who came to the faith that way cant and/or wont be saved .
E
Lets think for a minute what you said. (please. I beg, do not think I am attacking you)
1. Could your children commit a sin so grave you would kick them out of your family (not house. Family)
2. Can your child ever stop being your child (they were born of Your blood)
3. Even if your child disowned you. Would they still not be your child. and as a loving father, would you still go rescue them if they needed help. or give her a proper burial if she passed away?
Now. think Of God. Who professes to love us so much, He set aside his diety. become a man, and died the death of the cross (the worse form of punishment known to man that I know of)
I make long posts too...
...one thought turns into another one...it is kind of like the hair commercial we used to have in Canada....."And they told 2 friends...and then they told 2 friends "
I agree that the terms "salvation and being saved" can be mis-leading too depending on how we actually view those terms within our own thinking.
Here is my current view on "salvation or being saved" in the context of the finished work of Christ. It is on this blue link below. Just click on it if you are new here and it'll take you to it. It'll be like an unscheduled Walt Disney Ride.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...oda-s-will-unto-salvation-25.html#post2915032
I liked your list but you forgot baby Jesus being born? How could He die if He wasn't born first?...lol
I don't agree with the so-called sinner's prayer either. It's not scriptural. We have word for word accounts of the true gospel being preached by both Peter and Paul in Acts 10 and Acts 13 and it is nothing like we have been evangelically taught. However people do get saved because God loves people and He responds to the heart of people.
Water baptism to me is simply an outward sign of what happened when we believed in Christ and were sealed with the Holy spirit who baptized us into the body of Christ.
Every believer has the beautiful privilege of getting water baptized and I love watching them - especially since I know what it means now. It's a commandment that our heart jumps to do in joy when we know what it means.
I look forward to talking about the beauty of our Lord with you in the future.
( ya' heretic..what do you mean there is no sinner's prayer?...lol....just kiddin' and havin' some funnin' ..the joy of the Lord is our strength! )
...one thought turns into another one...it is kind of like the hair commercial we used to have in Canada....."And they told 2 friends...and then they told 2 friends "I agree that the terms "salvation and being saved" can be mis-leading too depending on how we actually view those terms within our own thinking.
Here is my current view on "salvation or being saved" in the context of the finished work of Christ. It is on this blue link below. Just click on it if you are new here and it'll take you to it. It'll be like an unscheduled Walt Disney Ride.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...oda-s-will-unto-salvation-25.html#post2915032
I liked your list but you forgot baby Jesus being born? How could He die if He wasn't born first?...lol
I don't agree with the so-called sinner's prayer either. It's not scriptural. We have word for word accounts of the true gospel being preached by both Peter and Paul in Acts 10 and Acts 13 and it is nothing like we have been evangelically taught. However people do get saved because God loves people and He responds to the heart of people.
Water baptism to me is simply an outward sign of what happened when we believed in Christ and were sealed with the Holy spirit who baptized us into the body of Christ.
Every believer has the beautiful privilege of getting water baptized and I love watching them - especially since I know what it means now. It's a commandment that our heart jumps to do in joy when we know what it means.
I look forward to talking about the beauty of our Lord with you in the future.
( ya' heretic..what do you mean there is no sinner's prayer?...lol....just kiddin' and havin' some funnin' ..the joy of the Lord is our strength! )
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E
Oh boy.. Peter said there would be no way he would deny him. Where do you get he was obeying.
Fear caused him to do it, He was saddened once he did it and realized the lords prophesy came true when he heard the crow.
He did not even think of what the lord said until he heard the crow.. Thats why he left. Because his pride was shaken.
1. It is not in my mind, God said I will always be saved. He said I will live forever, Never die, Never hunger or thrist, and he promised, he will raise me on the last day.
If that is not true, I have no hope.
If I have no hope.; I have no faith
faith is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen"
2. I not only confess my sin, I at times get angered by it,, Because like peter. I say I will not do something, then ultimately do it anyway.. and am immediately reminded of it.
3. No one i know who has true faith in Christ, thinks it is ok to sin.
Fear caused him to do it, He was saddened once he did it and realized the lords prophesy came true when he heard the crow.
He did not even think of what the lord said until he heard the crow.. Thats why he left. Because his pride was shaken.
1. It is not in my mind, God said I will always be saved. He said I will live forever, Never die, Never hunger or thrist, and he promised, he will raise me on the last day.
If that is not true, I have no hope.
If I have no hope.; I have no faith
faith is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen"
2. I not only confess my sin, I at times get angered by it,, Because like peter. I say I will not do something, then ultimately do it anyway.. and am immediately reminded of it.
3. No one i know who has true faith in Christ, thinks it is ok to sin.