Prodigal son - eternally saved or the lost who found God

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A

Adstar

Senior Member
#41
Jul 24, 2016
7,600
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#41
But the son still had to turn around and come back and repent...
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That highlighted bold part. That is the part the turns grace to legalism, and makes it a works based gospel.
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No... Belief is Not a Work.... There is no work in me believing that water is wet.. There is no work in me believing that i am a sinner needing the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin.. There is no work in me admitting i am a sinner..

You have expanded the definition of works beyond the confines of what is true works like the calvinists have..

There are works of religion.. Keep holy days and doing ceremonies
There are good works.. like giving charity to the poor and being nice to others
There are the works of sin avoidance.. trying to stop oneself sinning

But belief is not a Works.. One either believes or they don't..
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#42
#42
Roughsoul1991 said:
Very true he will always be his son but willingly walked away from what was owed to him. The Father cannot give to the son his inheritance if the son rejects it.
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Both sons had already received their inheritances.

An inheritance is received after the death of the one it is being received from, BTW. Remember, the father figure in the parable is Jesus.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#43
#43
God makes a difference between Isaac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau, New covenant and old covenant.

In this parable it seems that both sons were still in old covenant mindsets.

Until we have been born again, we aren't truly God's children. So I don't know if the assumption that since the person was a son, means he will be saved.

We look at many verses that say "just because you physically have the blood of Abraham, doesnt mean you belong to God" (paraphrased)

Plus the promise was made to the Seed, not seeds.

I don't think this parable is about SALVATION but about how willing and loving God is to forgive and embrace those who repent and seek Him again. Ending their affair with this world and it's false friends.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#44
#44
Why is the Father figure Jesus and not the Heavenly father aspect of the Trinity?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#45
#45
What inheritance did the sons receive? What is promised in the parable?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#46
#46
PennEd said:
The Scripture specifically says he received his inheritance. Between that, and the fact that the Father says everything else is going to the older son, I believe the inheritance blown by the Prodigal son is the eternal rewards, or position in the Kingdom he would have received. NOT HIS SALVATION. Maybe he will be one of the least in the Kingdom, but he will be there nonetheless.
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I believe the inheritance the prodigal son received is riches of this world...things that fade but most people still value and strive to accumulate.
 
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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#47
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#47

But the son still had to turn around and come back and repent...
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eternally-gratefull said:
That highlighted bold part. That is the part the turns grace to legalism, and makes it a works based gospel.
you first said you could do nothing, then you said YOU HAD TO DO SOMETHING.
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The above is the source of the reinterpretation of the parable of the prodigal son.
If it is read as a son being lost and then found, this theological camp have to accept
the son has to do something to be saved.

They hate this, it goes to the core of their belief, and contradicts it fundamentally.

They would rather die than accept this, so must reinterpret the parable to fit in their
way.

So thank you EG for showing us why you must do this and how you treat scripture
to fit your beliefs rather than let your beliefs fit scripture.

It also shows the state of your heart and how hard it is to Gods word.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#48
#48
Ariel82 said:
Why is the Father figure Jesus and not the Heavenly father aspect of the Trinity?
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Because it's Jesus who died for us so that we could receive an eternal inheritance.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#49
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
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#49
I believe to try to interpret the parable along with the lost sheep and coin without taking into consideration the context in which Jesus spoke these parables is missing the point of them. Jesus said these parables in response to the self-righteous religious people's response to Jesus' treating of sinners.

I believe this parable is to do with sinners being away from what God has for them in Christ and then they come back to Him and receive the Father's love and acceptance of them. Notice that the son in the pig-pen "came to himself".

If one was to look at it through the gospel and what Christ has done on the cross. We know that all the sins of the world were taken on by Christ. All man-kind belongs to the Lord as He is our true Father. There is also the father of lies and people can take on his thoughts which is why Jesus told the religious people that they were of their father the devil. They were identifying with him.

Christ is the Savior of the world but they need to believe it which is why Paul said this.

1 Timothy 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Prescribe and teach these things.

We all need to come to receive this saving that has been done in Christ. We haven't even scratched the surface of how great this salvation is that we have in Christ.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#50
#50
Not even worth discussing anymore when it becomes a PeterJens and EG fight.

Going to find another thread.

Was actually hoping for some discussion and maybe answers to why people believe as they do,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#51
#51
Adstar said:
Now you are going beyond the bounds of sanity.. I have on more then one occasion posted strongly against the doctrines of universalism in here.. universalism teaches that all humanity will be saved.. Here i am in this very thread supporting the point that people will die the first and the second death if they do not believe Jesus and repent their sins by acknowledging them to their Father and you are accusing me of being a universalist ?????????

You have allowed your emotions to get the better of you.. To the point of throwing totally illogical accusations...
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You said all people are children.

My response was that is leaning towards universalism I did not call you a unilateralist.

Your response shows you did not read a thing I said, and like many are skimmers not readers. you look for key words, and think you have them.

So read again, Prove what I said was wrong, instead of attacking something I never even said.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#54
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#54
Ariel82 said:
What inheritance did the sons receive? What is promised in the parable?
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In the parable, the son is given rights of being a son again, not just a servant.
The limits of this are not specified, except the other son is very upset.

This links into the parable of equal payments for a days work or part of a days
work. Being in the Kingdom is being in the Kingdom, love does not count privilege
but rejoices in blessing.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#55
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#55
Adstar said:
All human beings are created by God.. All human beings are therefore sons of God in a symbolic way.. Therefore the door is open to ALL mankind and we are ALL able to be sons of God. Who so ever comes to God and believes Him shall be saved..
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eternally-gratefull said:
That is universalism at its finest.
I chose to use Gods word. John 1: 12. children of God are given that right BECAUSE they have faiht in God (believe in his name)
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This is sloppy language, which could be taken as provocative.
It is a tactic, chosen by some when a discussion has got to a point where it cannot
go any further to enrage someone.

The reason I chose today the parable of the prodigal son, is because I knew it was
a sore point for some. This did not make sense to me, but now we know.

It teaches something they cannot refute.

I think this is always in our spiritual walks a profound realisation, when God says to
us, "I mean something else."

I embrace Gods free grace in the cross, but also my debt to Him for the forgiveness
of my sins, for which I am a living sacrifice in time and effort for the Kingdom.

But for some this is like a red rag to a bull, and nothing will stop their charge as
demonstrated here. But they will not change, because they have closed all the
doors and hatches and wish to catch anyone unwary of their schemes.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#56
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#56
eternally-gratefull said:
What will it take for you to stop inserting your own belief system into the word. and not interpret it as it is written. Using what is said as context.

He never said he stopped being the son (nor he COULD STOP)

1. He was the son, A son never stops being a son (well maybe you would disown your son? would not matter, he would still be YOUR SON)
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The angels that lost their first estate (1/3) didn't quit being called angels, either. So what's your point?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#57
#57
Adstar said:
No... Belief is Not a Work.... There is no work in me believing that water is wet.. There is no work in me believing that i am a sinner needing the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin.. There is no work in me admitting i am a sinner..
Click to expand...

Your right. But that is not what we are talking about. A person does not have faith he is a sinner, then think he is not a sinner anymore. so he has to believe he is a sinner again.

You said he had to turn around and walk back (that is work, walking is a work) them repent again, How many times does a person have to repent before God says no? Just asking.

You have expanded the definition of works beyond the confines of what is true works like the calvinists have..
Click to expand...
You have watered down the definition of works. Like arminians have.

There are works of religion.. Keep holy days and doing ceremonies
There are good works.. like giving charity to the poor and being nice to others
There are the works of sin avoidance.. trying to stop oneself sinning

But belief is not a Works.. One either believes or they don't..
Click to expand...
A work is a work is a work, If I do something to earn a reward. or a wage, I have worked for it.

You claimed the son had to turn around, ,walk back to his father (we do not know how far away he was, It could have taken days) and repent. or he would be lost.

THAT IS WORKS SALVATION.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
#58
Ariel82 said:
God makes a difference between Isaac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau, New covenant and old covenant.

In this parable it seems that both sons were still in old covenant mindsets.

Until we have been born again, we aren't truly God's children. So I don't know if the assumption that since the person was a son, means he will be saved.

We look at many verses that say "just because you physically have the blood of Abraham, doesnt mean you belong to God" (paraphrased)

Plus the promise was made to the Seed, not seeds.

I don't think this parable is about SALVATION but about how willing and loving God is to forgive and embrace those who repent and seek Him again. Ending their affair with this world and it's false friends.
Click to expand...

I disagree, Even OT people had to be saved by faith. Abraham was claimed righteous before the law was even given.. To say it is different is to claim two gospels. and that is dangerous.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#59
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#59
Stephen63 said:
The angels that lost their first estate (1/3) didn't quit being called angels, either. So what's your point?
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There is no hope of redemption for fallen angels.

Some are children of God, those who have been saved, the rest are children of the devil.

Perhaps we should call the fallen angels demons especially if that will make it easier for you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#60
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#60
We have just as many opinions as we have members. Why should I be different? Can everybody read the whole chapter before they start throwing around their opinions? It just makes less reading that way. The whole point of the parable was to illustrate that the Father doesn't hold a grudge. He is excited when people repent and won't say I told you so and tell you to hit the road. Since we must tear apart every detail, understand that He is talking about backsliders and lukewarm believers. The inheritance that he took and squandered has to do with the gifts that God has given us to serve Him with. The good son was obedient and will receive more wealth in the afterlife. The point is that no matter what we do, God loves us all the same. The son who squandered his wealth had no more wealth, just like all of the Christians who use their "talents" to build their earthly kingdoms that will perish. Even after we spend our existence here in this life serving ourselves, when we are on our deathbed and repent He is gracious and welcomes us into the Kingdom. We will have no rewards, but we will still be welcomed.
 
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