****you have a good point---but I don't expect the devil to have good works (James 2:19)---I believe James was saying the devil is not saved---he does believe---but his faith is dead---"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"----James then talks about Abraham and his imputed righteousness---which is what Christian are given---righteousness by faith which produces works---"because" we believe...
Prodigal son - eternally saved or the lost who found God
- Thread starter PeterJens
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No, I read the whole passage. And did not nit pic a verse out of a whole like you evidently want me to do.
It never said they were saved, It said they escaped the corruption of the world. and went to church. Why do you think if there is a church empowered by God so many people go.. yet the bible says some will never have been saved
Yes, God did write the book, so why are you nit picking verses to make a whole doctrine? (sorry if your going to be sarcastic, I will return it back to you)
As a little side observation - one group what to use this phrase - "you know nothing about Jesus."
Now as a christian, reading the bible often, being in the church 40+ years that would be pretty
difficult. I would not be this direct with someone, because I actually want to understand where
people are, no matter how much they might hate it, it is what I am called to do, in loving people.
The whole statement itself is self denying. By lying about someone else, one declares ones own
failure to understand Christ at a very basic level. It is more like a sinner saying get lost to a
believer offering the gospel truth. So whatever people do the truth will always come out.
Now as a christian, reading the bible often, being in the church 40+ years that would be pretty
difficult. I would not be this direct with someone, because I actually want to understand where
people are, no matter how much they might hate it, it is what I am called to do, in loving people.
The whole statement itself is self denying. By lying about someone else, one declares ones own
failure to understand Christ at a very basic level. It is more like a sinner saying get lost to a
believer offering the gospel truth. So whatever people do the truth will always come out.
Ok, so those were false Christians of false doctrines. It still doesn't change the fact that His sheep can be lost. The father of the prodigal called his son "his son", but said that he was dead. There is a difference between being a son who makes mistakes and being a son who left his father. If we leave God we leave His grace.
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I seariously dont believe Jesus would not tell the story of hope and salvation if the prodical son was not saved.
Why because jesus spoke love about the prodical son.
The prodical son is the son who was scared and that is why he ran away. When he realise wealth wasnt the be all and end all he got scared. He stared to pray he thought he had lost his fathers love, (but he never did) if he had of realized this he would of kept in touch while he was having a good time. all tho messages where hard to get from one country to another in them days all tho its not clear how far he went.
The bible states he set off for a distant country,,,,,,,,,,,, so this could be anywhere like maybe across the pond in the usa,
but the point is he was scared and scared from day one. As he would have said goodbye.
Why because jesus spoke love about the prodical son.
The prodical son is the son who was scared and that is why he ran away. When he realise wealth wasnt the be all and end all he got scared. He stared to pray he thought he had lost his fathers love, (but he never did) if he had of realized this he would of kept in touch while he was having a good time. all tho messages where hard to get from one country to another in them days all tho its not clear how far he went.
The bible states he set off for a distant country,,,,,,,,,,,, so this could be anywhere like maybe across the pond in the usa,
but the point is he was scared and scared from day one. As he would have said goodbye.
My friend please read what your Lord said about your language.
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matt 5:22
Now most people who know Christ would not use the language you do
because the realise there is no favourtism with God, you need to listen
to what he says. You appear not to be able to do this.
So maybe you literally do not know Him?
As Peter would say, we know we know Him because we do what he
commands.
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matt 5:22
Now most people who know Christ would not use the language you do
because the realise there is no favourtism with God, you need to listen
to what he says. You appear not to be able to do this.
So maybe you literally do not know Him?
As Peter would say, we know we know Him because we do what he
commands.
A
That doesn't make sense of you truly knew the definition of grace....grace can't be earned or abandoned. It is given to those who don't deserve it seek it.
The prodigal son was dead and made alive again....did the elder son ever live?
He never left the Father but he never enjoyed what he was blessed with with his friends either. Is that living?
The prodigal son was dead and made alive again....did the elder son ever live?
He never left the Father but he never enjoyed what he was blessed with with his friends either. Is that living?
Let's keep in mind that James was not talking about saving faith in Jesus Christ when it comes to the devils that believes there is one God, because James addressed the church as believing in One God and the devils showed that belief by trembling, which is indicative by what the church was not doing by their faith in God's Providence by example.
James 2:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We can know James was only talking ONLY about the faith in God's Providence by that reference to Abraham BECAUSE that was specifically about faith in God providing for His servants.
Genesis 22:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?[SUP]8 [/SUP]And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together..................
Genesis 22:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
The reference to what Abraham did is the reference to the place where it happened as this was all about faith in God providing.
So faith in His Providence without works is dead; faith in Him without works is how we are saved by Him & His righteousness alone.
Romans 3:[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Paul went on to explain how Abraham was considered righteous without works by believing in Him.
Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,[SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Paul and James did not preach a different gospel.
Galatians 2:9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
You cannot have the right hands of fellowship by preaching another gospel as Paul declares in the same book of Galatians.
Galatians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
So obviously, believers are not reading what James is talking about in context of that whole chapter even by his reference to the example of Abraham's faith in God's providing when it was never about the saving faith in Jesus Christ.
James 2:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We can know James was only talking ONLY about the faith in God's Providence by that reference to Abraham BECAUSE that was specifically about faith in God providing for His servants.
Genesis 22:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?[SUP]8 [/SUP]And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together..................
Genesis 22:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
The reference to what Abraham did is the reference to the place where it happened as this was all about faith in God providing.
So faith in His Providence without works is dead; faith in Him without works is how we are saved by Him & His righteousness alone.
Romans 3:[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Paul went on to explain how Abraham was considered righteous without works by believing in Him.
Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,[SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Paul and James did not preach a different gospel.
Galatians 2:9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
You cannot have the right hands of fellowship by preaching another gospel as Paul declares in the same book of Galatians.
Galatians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
So obviously, believers are not reading what James is talking about in context of that whole chapter even by his reference to the example of Abraham's faith in God's providing when it was never about the saving faith in Jesus Christ.