Prodigal son - eternally saved or the lost who found God
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What can we learn for our different perspectives?
We can read in meaning to parables to fit our views and be convinced we are
right. The guiding light is our hearts.
This creates a dilemma we can easily deceive ourselves unless we are careful.
But in this God has created a reality, where only the elect will find their way
through, and what a privilege it is to know this.
Just imagine if the kingdom of heaven was about show and celebrity.
I mean all the TV evangelists would be up there, racking in the money, and
the sin would never be dealt with.
So is this your view of heaven or of simple, good, loving, pure righteous
folk loving serving their fellow man and those they find round about them?
I know which I believe the Kingdom to be made of.
We can read in meaning to parables to fit our views and be convinced we are
right. The guiding light is our hearts.
This creates a dilemma we can easily deceive ourselves unless we are careful.
But in this God has created a reality, where only the elect will find their way
through, and what a privilege it is to know this.
Just imagine if the kingdom of heaven was about show and celebrity.
I mean all the TV evangelists would be up there, racking in the money, and
the sin would never be dealt with.
So is this your view of heaven or of simple, good, loving, pure righteous
folk loving serving their fellow man and those they find round about them?
I know which I believe the Kingdom to be made of.
No way,, your response was not "' hey adstar thats leaning towards universalism.. your response was,, and i quote::
Yep universalism at it's finest.. So you where making the point that i was a pure universalist. and now your backtracking and trying to say you where not..
Yes i read again and i quoted exactly what you said.. So i clearly read what you said.. End of discussion.. A very unplesant experiance dealing with you..
Symbolically God..
Symbolically His blessings in general.
Symbolically Eternal life.. Anyone who is in a rightful relationship with God has eternal life..
Symbolically Eternal life.. Anyone who is in a rightful relationship with God has eternal life..
God hates rebellion against His will, He hates sin.. But the Door is always open to a sinner who ceases their rebellion and comes back to a rightful relationship with God..
There is another parable similar to this one that gives a similar message in respect to the fathers response to the loyal sons bitterness at the return of the rebellious son and what seem to him as an injustice that the rebellious son was welcomes back and forgiven..
Matthew 20: KJV
1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. {2} And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. {3} And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, {4} And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. {5} Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. {6} And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? {7} They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. {8} So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. {9} And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. {10} But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. {11} And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, {12} Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. {13} But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? {14} Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. {15} Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? {16} So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."
See how all the laborers in the vineyard received the same reward no matter if they worked all day or worked for just an hour?
See how the Labourers who worked all day where angry at what seemed to them an injustice of the last being paid the same as the first.. Just as the loyal son to the father was bitter at the returned son receiving the forgiveness of the father and the fattened calf..
In this parable however the Labourers represent people who come to accept the Gospel and become witnesses working in the Field which represents the world / world population . Some come to believe Jesus at a very early age (in the first hour) and go out and share the gospel and face all the hate and rejection all their lives. While others come to believe Jesus and accept the Gospel on their death beds ( in the 11th hour ) But both of them receive the same gift eternal life with God (a penny in the parable )
But some who have been Christians for most of their lives and who have faced all the persecution and reviling and mocking from unbelievers around them might start to get resentful when some of those very same people who persecuted them turn to believe in God at the last hour of their lives..
Symbolically His blessings in general.
Symbolically Eternal life.. Anyone who is in a rightful relationship with God has eternal life..
Symbolically Eternal life.. Anyone who is in a rightful relationship with God has eternal life..
God hates rebellion against His will, He hates sin.. But the Door is always open to a sinner who ceases their rebellion and comes back to a rightful relationship with God..
There is another parable similar to this one that gives a similar message in respect to the fathers response to the loyal sons bitterness at the return of the rebellious son and what seem to him as an injustice that the rebellious son was welcomes back and forgiven..
Matthew 20: KJV
1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. {2} And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. {3} And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, {4} And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. {5} Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. {6} And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? {7} They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. {8} So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. {9} And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. {10} But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. {11} And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, {12} Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. {13} But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? {14} Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. {15} Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? {16} So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."
See how all the laborers in the vineyard received the same reward no matter if they worked all day or worked for just an hour?
See how the Labourers who worked all day where angry at what seemed to them an injustice of the last being paid the same as the first.. Just as the loyal son to the father was bitter at the returned son receiving the forgiveness of the father and the fattened calf..
In this parable however the Labourers represent people who come to accept the Gospel and become witnesses working in the Field which represents the world / world population . Some come to believe Jesus at a very early age (in the first hour) and go out and share the gospel and face all the hate and rejection all their lives. While others come to believe Jesus and accept the Gospel on their death beds ( in the 11th hour ) But both of them receive the same gift eternal life with God (a penny in the parable )
But some who have been Christians for most of their lives and who have faced all the persecution and reviling and mocking from unbelievers around them might start to get resentful when some of those very same people who persecuted them turn to believe in God at the last hour of their lives..
E
Now your being dishonest. You made a statement, I said that statement is universalism at it as finest. And it was. Whether you agree or not..
Universalism is based on the fact that all men are Gods children. Which is not biblical. 1 John 1: 12 makes that's clear.
That is not the same room as calling you I a universalist.
Nice try buddy.
[ Yep. Very unpleasant.
You did not read what I said, You twisted what I said. And you did not even get the context of what I said I guess I should expect that though.. Sad.
Universalism is based on the fact that all men are Gods children. Which is not biblical. 1 John 1: 12 makes that's clear.
That is not the same room as calling you I a universalist.
Nice try buddy.
[ Yep. Very unpleasant.
You did not read what I said, You twisted what I said. And you did not even get the context of what I said I guess I should expect that though.. Sad.
It is important to believe Jesus.. We cannot reject a teaching of Jesus and say we are still a follower of Jesus covered by His atonement.. We cannot cut out certain teachings of Jesus and then expect to be forgiven our transgressions agains that teaching when we state we are justified to not believe that teaching.. We need to accept the teachings of Jesus to be forgiven our transgressions against those teachings..
Jesus is the Word of God...
John 6:KJV
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that Ispeak unto you, they
are spirit, and theyare life.
Jesus is the Word of God...
John 6:KJV
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that Ispeak unto you, they
are spirit, and theyare life.
Hmmm, very interesting comment you have there, Petey -- racist, prejudice and condescending to the very core. You've been told about that plank of yours but obviously you've yet to listen. But by all means, continue. I'm laughing at how incorrectly you've tried to peg me yet crying at the depth of your unchristian depravity. What other incorrect accusations to you care to make. I'm listening.
You are right the door remains open for all to be saved. Once a person is saved he walks through this door and it's shut sealing him in to his eternal home.
But God does not stop the person from walking back to this door, opens it and walks away. God will chase him, try to convince him, but ultimately God does not take our free will.
We all willingly sin from time to time but the difference is do you remain doing it or do you repent and acknowledge your wrong doing. And more importantly that acknowledging is to turn the car around and do what is right in the eyes of God.
Salvation is built on faith alone. Loss of believe how can salvation happen if a believer has backslided into willful sin and no longer excepts God's will as the way of life.
But God does not stop the person from walking back to this door, opens it and walks away. God will chase him, try to convince him, but ultimately God does not take our free will.
We all willingly sin from time to time but the difference is do you remain doing it or do you repent and acknowledge your wrong doing. And more importantly that acknowledging is to turn the car around and do what is right in the eyes of God.
Salvation is built on faith alone. Loss of believe how can salvation happen if a believer has backslided into willful sin and no longer excepts God's will as the way of life.
One thing to remember even though nothing justifys judging a person, Peter had been criticized for his beliefs by multiple people which can get very frustrating.
Many misunderstand what he is saying and once A VERB is used many people stop listening and count his beliefs as work theology. We have to include all scripture and not just look at Romans and Ephesians on the matter of salvation. The whole Bible collectively has a lot to say on salvation.
Many misunderstand what he is saying and once A VERB is used many people stop listening and count his beliefs as work theology. We have to include all scripture and not just look at Romans and Ephesians on the matter of salvation. The whole Bible collectively has a lot to say on salvation.
To me repenting is aknowledging my sins to God.
Just as the Son in the parrable aknowledged his transgressions to his father.
to me Repenting is not us ceasing to sin..
If repenting is ceasing to sin then we are all doomed to the eternal lake of fire because who among us has ceased to sin?
Willful sin to me is a person knowingly sinning with an in your face attitude towards God.. Willful sin is sinning and being proud of doing that sin.. So to me wilfull sin is somthing that Christians should never do... Yes Christians will sin and we do but if we aknoledge our sin as being sin and we do not have a rebellious attitude towards Gods will regarding our sins we shall be covered by His Atonement for our sins.. ( of course that is dependant on us believing Gods Word..)
Hebrews 10: KJV
{26} For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
I believe Salvation is built on believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our Salvation.. Making Gods will our way of life to me is us attempting to live a perfect life.. And of course we fail that every day.. So salvation is not linked to our personal ""performance"" in living up to the Godly way of Life.. it is about us believing the Will of God and trusting in the Way God has made for us to be saved..
Just as the Son in the parrable aknowledged his transgressions to his father.
to me Repenting is not us ceasing to sin..
If repenting is ceasing to sin then we are all doomed to the eternal lake of fire because who among us has ceased to sin?
Willful sin to me is a person knowingly sinning with an in your face attitude towards God.. Willful sin is sinning and being proud of doing that sin.. So to me wilfull sin is somthing that Christians should never do... Yes Christians will sin and we do but if we aknoledge our sin as being sin and we do not have a rebellious attitude towards Gods will regarding our sins we shall be covered by His Atonement for our sins.. ( of course that is dependant on us believing Gods Word..)
Hebrews 10: KJV
{26} For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
I believe Salvation is built on believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our Salvation.. Making Gods will our way of life to me is us attempting to live a perfect life.. And of course we fail that every day.. So salvation is not linked to our personal ""performance"" in living up to the Godly way of Life.. it is about us believing the Will of God and trusting in the Way God has made for us to be saved..
UTAH - I am sorry you need to lighten up.
"fool" "unchristian depravity" "racist" and I asked if you were a red-neck.
Now based on the above I think I have a right to be condescending.
Ever actually spend time getting to know someone and why they say what they say?
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
John 15:12
Do you think your descriptions fulfill this command?
This is what I ask you to consider. It is quite a simple task.
I love you and would die to save you if I had to.
Not sure it would make a difference to you, so maybe a sacrifice in vain.
"fool" "unchristian depravity" "racist" and I asked if you were a red-neck.
Now based on the above I think I have a right to be condescending.
Ever actually spend time getting to know someone and why they say what they say?
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
John 15:12
Do you think your descriptions fulfill this command?
This is what I ask you to consider. It is quite a simple task.
I love you and would die to save you if I had to.
Not sure it would make a difference to you, so maybe a sacrifice in vain.
I would say acknowledging my sins to God is confessing your sins. Repenting is the desire to cease from sins for which you are asking for forgiveness for.
If a spouse committed adultery and came forth, confessing that sin and asking for forgiveness, you would assume the spouse meant that he/she would never do it again. And yet when he/she comes for the 2nd or 3rd times afterwards, asking for this forgiveness for other adulteries, then you would more than likely get a divorce ( which Jesus would permit even after the first time if you had chosen to forgive but divorced the spouse anyway ).
Not the lake of fire, but at risk of being a castaway as in left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House whom failed to look to Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to lead them away from temptations and to help them follow Him as they ought to. The race to be run can only be run when sinners are saved believers; & how to run that race is by faith in Jesus Christ to finish as we are the works of His hands.
It is true that once the foundation is laid by Jesus Christ, having His seal, we can never lose our salvation, but what we build on that foundation will be judged. If we build on it wood, stubble, and hay of the things that defile the temple of God, God will destroy the flesh ( physical death ) ( verses 16-17 ) so that the spirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ ( see verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ).
The sinning willfully part here is about thinking that you need another sacrifice for sins; as if His blood on the cross was not good enough for that one time sacrifice for sins to give you that seal of adoption. It is that sin that puts Christ Jesus to open shame and why those believers that sin that way will fall in the hands of the living God for God will judge His people as they are still His people, but it is a terrible thing to fall into His hands that way, unless they repent; cease practicing the Mass or that communion where they think they are receiving Jesus Christ again supernaturally when communion was only supposed to be done in remembrance of Him.
Salvation is done or else we are not in that race. We are not running that race for our salvation or for our reconciliation, but to be that vessel unto honor in His House by His grace & by His help as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is by trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us to abide and to follow Him.
And that include ceasing from habitual sins & everyday sins because that is what we are looking to the author & finisher of our faith to do.. to keep laying aside every weight & sin in running that race. If you catch yourself cussing, that is when you ask the Lord for help in stopping the cussing, to let go of the anger, and to forgive as Christ has forgiven us.
1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;[SUP]2 [/SUP]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.[SUP]6 [/SUP]For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Use hospitality one to another without grudging.[SUP]10 [/SUP]As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:[SUP]8 [/SUP](For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:[SUP]10[/SUP]But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;[SUP]13 [/SUP]And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
It is true in what you say that some just willfully sin to mock God, but that attitude can happen in a saved believer when sowing to the woks of the flesh ( wood, stubble, & hay ) in reaping corruption thus defiling the temple of God to such a point that they become worse sinners than before they were saved ( even though they are still saved )
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Galatians 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
I believe the vessels unto honor in His House are received at the pre trib rapture event wherein those not abiding in Him & His words because they did not look to Him by His grace & by His help as our Good Shepherd to keep laying aside every weight & sins, will be left behind to be received later on as those vessels unto dishonor in His House.
So it all boils down to how you seek to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ because He is in you and will never leave you. Do we trust Him to help us cease from sins, including our thoughts to think on good things?
Psalm 19:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Philippians 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
If a spouse committed adultery and came forth, confessing that sin and asking for forgiveness, you would assume the spouse meant that he/she would never do it again. And yet when he/she comes for the 2nd or 3rd times afterwards, asking for this forgiveness for other adulteries, then you would more than likely get a divorce ( which Jesus would permit even after the first time if you had chosen to forgive but divorced the spouse anyway ).
Not the lake of fire, but at risk of being a castaway as in left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House whom failed to look to Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to lead them away from temptations and to help them follow Him as they ought to. The race to be run can only be run when sinners are saved believers; & how to run that race is by faith in Jesus Christ to finish as we are the works of His hands.
It is true that once the foundation is laid by Jesus Christ, having His seal, we can never lose our salvation, but what we build on that foundation will be judged. If we build on it wood, stubble, and hay of the things that defile the temple of God, God will destroy the flesh ( physical death ) ( verses 16-17 ) so that the spirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ ( see verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ).
The sinning willfully part here is about thinking that you need another sacrifice for sins; as if His blood on the cross was not good enough for that one time sacrifice for sins to give you that seal of adoption. It is that sin that puts Christ Jesus to open shame and why those believers that sin that way will fall in the hands of the living God for God will judge His people as they are still His people, but it is a terrible thing to fall into His hands that way, unless they repent; cease practicing the Mass or that communion where they think they are receiving Jesus Christ again supernaturally when communion was only supposed to be done in remembrance of Him.
Salvation is done or else we are not in that race. We are not running that race for our salvation or for our reconciliation, but to be that vessel unto honor in His House by His grace & by His help as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is by trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us to abide and to follow Him.
And that include ceasing from habitual sins & everyday sins because that is what we are looking to the author & finisher of our faith to do.. to keep laying aside every weight & sin in running that race. If you catch yourself cussing, that is when you ask the Lord for help in stopping the cussing, to let go of the anger, and to forgive as Christ has forgiven us.
1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;[SUP]2 [/SUP]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.[SUP]6 [/SUP]For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Use hospitality one to another without grudging.[SUP]10 [/SUP]As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:[SUP]8 [/SUP](For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:[SUP]10[/SUP]But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;[SUP]13 [/SUP]And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:It is true in what you say that some just willfully sin to mock God, but that attitude can happen in a saved believer when sowing to the woks of the flesh ( wood, stubble, & hay ) in reaping corruption thus defiling the temple of God to such a point that they become worse sinners than before they were saved ( even though they are still saved )
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Galatians 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
I believe the vessels unto honor in His House are received at the pre trib rapture event wherein those not abiding in Him & His words because they did not look to Him by His grace & by His help as our Good Shepherd to keep laying aside every weight & sins, will be left behind to be received later on as those vessels unto dishonor in His House.
So it all boils down to how you seek to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ because He is in you and will never leave you. Do we trust Him to help us cease from sins, including our thoughts to think on good things?
Psalm 19:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Philippians 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
What we do is believe the word of God as it works in us us to both will and perform His good pleasure (imputed righteousness ) . It is the work of God that we can believe Him. This is seeing he gives us the faith (his) to make it possible, the same faith as a work by which he forgives us of our sin . We walk by his faith that alone comes from hearing His word .
Not like the apostate Jews that sought after a sign after some work they have performed, before they would believe God..
Isaiah 29:16 Surely your "turning of things upside down" shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
His work of faith that works in us not of our own selves, lest any boast he has no understanding. We are his workmanship not Him ours.
Not like the apostate Jews that sought after a sign after some work they have performed, before they would believe God..
Isaiah 29:16 Surely your "turning of things upside down" shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
His work of faith that works in us not of our own selves, lest any boast he has no understanding. We are his workmanship not Him ours.
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I would say acknowledging my sins to God is confessing your sins. Repenting is the desire to cease from sins for which you are asking for forgiveness for.
If a spouse committed adultery and came forth, confessing that sin and asking for forgiveness, you would assume the spouse meant that he/she would never do it again. And yet when he/she comes for the 2nd or 3rd times afterwards, asking for this forgiveness for other adulteries, then you would more than likely get a divorce ( which Jesus would permit even after the first time if you had chosen to forgive but divorced the spouse anyway ).
Not the lake of fire, but at risk of being a castaway as in left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House whom failed to look to Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to lead them away from temptations and to help them follow Him as they ought to. The race to be run can only be run when sinners are saved believers; & how to run that race is by faith in Jesus Christ to finish as we are the works of His hands.
It is true that once the foundation is laid by Jesus Christ, having His seal, we can never lose our salvation, but what we build on that foundation will be judged. If we build on it wood, stubble, and hay of the things that defile the temple of God, God will destroy the flesh ( physical death ) ( verses 16-17 ) so that the spirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ ( see verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ).
The sinning willfully part here is about thinking that you need another sacrifice for sins; as if His blood on the cross was not good enough for that one time sacrifice for sins to give you that seal of adoption. It is that sin that puts Christ Jesus to open shame and why those believers that sin that way will fall in the hands of the living God for God will judge His people as they are still His people, but it is a terrible thing to fall into His hands that way, unless they repent; cease practicing the Mass or that communion where they think they are receiving Jesus Christ again supernaturally when communion was only supposed to be done in remembrance of Him.
Salvation is done or else we are not in that race. We are not running that race for our salvation or for our reconciliation, but to be that vessel unto honor in His House by His grace & by His help as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is by trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us to abide and to follow Him.
And that include ceasing from habitual sins & everyday sins because that is what we are looking to the author & finisher of our faith to do.. to keep laying aside every weight & sin in running that race. If you catch yourself cussing, that is when you ask the Lord for help in stopping the cussing, to let go of the anger, and to forgive as Christ has forgiven us.
1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;[SUP]2 [/SUP]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.[SUP]6 [/SUP]For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Use hospitality one to another without grudging.[SUP]10 [/SUP]As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:[SUP]8 [/SUP](For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:[SUP]10[/SUP]But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;[SUP]13 [/SUP]And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
It is true in what you say that some just willfully sin to mock God, but that attitude can happen in a saved believer when sowing to the woks of the flesh ( wood, stubble, & hay ) in reaping corruption thus defiling the temple of God to such a point that they become worse sinners than before they were saved ( even though they are still saved )
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Galatians 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
I believe the vessels unto honor in His House are received at the pre trib rapture event wherein those not abiding in Him & His words because they did not look to Him by His grace & by His help as our Good Shepherd to keep laying aside every weight & sins, will be left behind to be received later on as those vessels unto dishonor in His House.
So it all boils down to how you seek to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ because He is in you and will never leave you. Do we trust Him to help us cease from sins, including our thoughts to think on good things?
Psalm 19:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Philippians 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
If a spouse committed adultery and came forth, confessing that sin and asking for forgiveness, you would assume the spouse meant that he/she would never do it again. And yet when he/she comes for the 2nd or 3rd times afterwards, asking for this forgiveness for other adulteries, then you would more than likely get a divorce ( which Jesus would permit even after the first time if you had chosen to forgive but divorced the spouse anyway ).
Not the lake of fire, but at risk of being a castaway as in left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House whom failed to look to Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to lead them away from temptations and to help them follow Him as they ought to. The race to be run can only be run when sinners are saved believers; & how to run that race is by faith in Jesus Christ to finish as we are the works of His hands.
It is true that once the foundation is laid by Jesus Christ, having His seal, we can never lose our salvation, but what we build on that foundation will be judged. If we build on it wood, stubble, and hay of the things that defile the temple of God, God will destroy the flesh ( physical death ) ( verses 16-17 ) so that the spirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ ( see verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ).
The sinning willfully part here is about thinking that you need another sacrifice for sins; as if His blood on the cross was not good enough for that one time sacrifice for sins to give you that seal of adoption. It is that sin that puts Christ Jesus to open shame and why those believers that sin that way will fall in the hands of the living God for God will judge His people as they are still His people, but it is a terrible thing to fall into His hands that way, unless they repent; cease practicing the Mass or that communion where they think they are receiving Jesus Christ again supernaturally when communion was only supposed to be done in remembrance of Him.
Salvation is done or else we are not in that race. We are not running that race for our salvation or for our reconciliation, but to be that vessel unto honor in His House by His grace & by His help as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is by trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us to abide and to follow Him.
And that include ceasing from habitual sins & everyday sins because that is what we are looking to the author & finisher of our faith to do.. to keep laying aside every weight & sin in running that race. If you catch yourself cussing, that is when you ask the Lord for help in stopping the cussing, to let go of the anger, and to forgive as Christ has forgiven us.
1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;[SUP]2 [/SUP]That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.[SUP]6 [/SUP]For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Use hospitality one to another without grudging.[SUP]10 [/SUP]As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:[SUP]8 [/SUP](For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:[SUP]10[/SUP]But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;[SUP]13 [/SUP]And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:It is true in what you say that some just willfully sin to mock God, but that attitude can happen in a saved believer when sowing to the woks of the flesh ( wood, stubble, & hay ) in reaping corruption thus defiling the temple of God to such a point that they become worse sinners than before they were saved ( even though they are still saved )
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Galatians 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
I believe the vessels unto honor in His House are received at the pre trib rapture event wherein those not abiding in Him & His words because they did not look to Him by His grace & by His help as our Good Shepherd to keep laying aside every weight & sins, will be left behind to be received later on as those vessels unto dishonor in His House.
So it all boils down to how you seek to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ because He is in you and will never leave you. Do we trust Him to help us cease from sins, including our thoughts to think on good things?
Psalm 19:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
Philippians 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
This is not what the verse means and if I'm understanding you then your saying a Christian that defiled the commandments of God will be destroyed by the flesh so that they may have a eternal life with God?