Is Jesus God?
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Not relational. Yeshua prayed...to the Heavenly Father.
The Advocate who is the Holy Spirit was sent in Yeshua's name...by the Father.
We do not serve One with split personalities. We are the Bride of Christ, not the Bride of the Father. The Holy Spirit is sent meaning he is separate. Yeshua never said he is the Father. He just claimed that He, Himself is divine like the Father. It really doesn't matter. This will be my last post on this thread unless someone asks for it to be further explained. I've said my piece.
The Advocate who is the Holy Spirit was sent in Yeshua's name...by the Father.
We do not serve One with split personalities. We are the Bride of Christ, not the Bride of the Father. The Holy Spirit is sent meaning he is separate. Yeshua never said he is the Father. He just claimed that He, Himself is divine like the Father. It really doesn't matter. This will be my last post on this thread unless someone asks for it to be further explained. I've said my piece.
Trinity…..1 john 5
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness on earth:[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. This verse should convince any Christian. Read what it says and don't intellectualise it; just trust what it says
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness on earth:[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. This verse should convince any Christian. Read what it says and don't intellectualise it; just trust what it says
Trinity…..1 john 5
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness on earth:[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. This verse should convince any Christian. Read what it says and don't intellectualise it; just trust what it says
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness on earth:[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. This verse should convince any Christian. Read what it says and don't intellectualise it; just trust what it says
It is not present in the majority text (byzantine) nor in the oldest Greek manuscripts. Therefore it is not present in other Bible translations, not based on Textus receptus.
But there are other verses proving the Trinity, so there is no problem with that.
"The Holy Spirit is sent meaning he is separate." <<I'm not sure about this. Since God is omnipresent, being "sent" doesn't necessarily mean the Holy Spirit is separate from God, right? Perhaps the Holy Spirit embodiment of God was in Heaven, and then was sent to earth. The same could be said of the Jesus, the human embodiment of God sent to us to teach us, lead us to salvation, and die for our sins. Just a thought.
New guy here, with a new guy question. Background: I'm a longtime Christian, and I've spent a lot of time over the years studying the bible and various Christian books. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But lately I've been mulling over a rather troubling question:
Is Jesus God?
I have thoughts on both sides of the fence concerning this question:
Jesus is God:
Jesus isn't God:
Where I am now in my beliefs: I love Jesus, and hope to meet him someday. I believe Jesus died for my sins, ushering in a new era for humanity. I believe his ascension into heaven is the reason the holy spirit was sent to man. I believe we are saved through Jesus by repenting, inviting the Holy Spirit into our hearts and having faith in God. I believe that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (Matt 14:20). But I don't necessarily think this means Jesus is God. Does faith require that we think Jesus is God?
What are the implications, to me, of having this belief and these questions? Is such belief acceptable to Christian churches?
(Sorry for the extremely long question.)
Is Jesus God?
I have thoughts on both sides of the fence concerning this question:
Jesus is God:
- Jesus forgave sins. (Matt 9:2)
- Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. (John 14:9)
- Jesus performed miracles.
- Jesus knew thoughts. (Luke 5:22)
Jesus isn't God:
- Jesus prayed to God. (Matt 26:36)
- Jesus "knows" the father. (Matt 11:27)
- God was well pleased with his son. (Mark 1:11)
- Jesus' Father’s house has many rooms. (John 14:2)
- No one comes to the Father except through Jesus. (John 14:2)
- "If you really know me, you WILL know my Father as well." (John 14:2; emphasis added on WILL)
- "whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing ... because I am going to the Father." (John 14:12)
- you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One. (Mark 14:62)
- Jesus was a human man on earth (before crucifixion) born of a human mother, Mary.
Where I am now in my beliefs: I love Jesus, and hope to meet him someday. I believe Jesus died for my sins, ushering in a new era for humanity. I believe his ascension into heaven is the reason the holy spirit was sent to man. I believe we are saved through Jesus by repenting, inviting the Holy Spirit into our hearts and having faith in God. I believe that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (Matt 14:20). But I don't necessarily think this means Jesus is God. Does faith require that we think Jesus is God?
What are the implications, to me, of having this belief and these questions? Is such belief acceptable to Christian churches?
(Sorry for the extremely long question.
)
New guy here, with a new guy question. Background: I'm a longtime Christian, and I've spent a lot of time over the years studying the bible and various Christian books. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But lately I've been mulling over a rather troubling question:
Is Jesus God?
I have thoughts on both sides of the fence concerning this question:
Jesus is God:
Jesus isn't God:
Where I am now in my beliefs: I love Jesus, and hope to meet him someday. I believe Jesus died for my sins, ushering in a new era for humanity. I believe his ascension into heaven is the reason the holy spirit was sent to man. I believe we are saved through Jesus by repenting, inviting the Holy Spirit into our hearts and having faith in God. I believe that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (Matt 14:20). But I don't necessarily think this means Jesus is God. Does faith require that we think Jesus is God?
What are the implications, to me, of having this belief and these questions? Is such belief acceptable to Christian churches?
(Sorry for the extremely long question.)
Is Jesus God?
I have thoughts on both sides of the fence concerning this question:
Jesus is God:
- Jesus forgave sins. (Matt 9:2)
- Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. (John 14:9)
- Jesus performed miracles.
- Jesus knew thoughts. (Luke 5:22)
Jesus isn't God:
- Jesus prayed to God. (Matt 26:36)
- Jesus "knows" the father. (Matt 11:27)
- God was well pleased with his son. (Mark 1:11)
- Jesus' Father’s house has many rooms. (John 14:2)
- No one comes to the Father except through Jesus. (John 14:2)
- "If you really know me, you WILL know my Father as well." (John 14:2; emphasis added on WILL)
- "whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing ... because I am going to the Father." (John 14:12)
- you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One. (Mark 14:62)
- Jesus was a human man on earth (before crucifixion) born of a human mother, Mary.
Where I am now in my beliefs: I love Jesus, and hope to meet him someday. I believe Jesus died for my sins, ushering in a new era for humanity. I believe his ascension into heaven is the reason the holy spirit was sent to man. I believe we are saved through Jesus by repenting, inviting the Holy Spirit into our hearts and having faith in God. I believe that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (Matt 14:20). But I don't necessarily think this means Jesus is God. Does faith require that we think Jesus is God?
What are the implications, to me, of having this belief and these questions? Is such belief acceptable to Christian churches?
(Sorry for the extremely long question.
)
Luke 22:67-71 "Art thou the CHRIST? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe: 68And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go. 69Hereafter shall the SON OF MAN SIT ON the RIGHT HAND OF THE POWER OF GOD. 70Then said they all, Art thou then the SON OF GOD? And he said unto them, YE SAY THAT I AM. 71And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth."
Matthew 26:63- 64 "But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the SON OF GOD. 64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, HEREAFTER YOU WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
acts 7:55-56 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and JJESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the SON OF MAN STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD."
Hebrews 8:1 "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the RIGHT HAND OF the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the RIGHT HAND OF the Majesty on high;"
daniel 7:13-14 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the SON OF MAN came with the clouds of heaven, and CAME TO the Ancient of days, and theyBROUGHT HIM NEAR before him. 14And there was GIVEN HIM DOMINION, and glory, and a KINGDOM, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an EVERLASTING DOMINION, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
acts 2:22-24 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN APPROVED OF GOD AMOING YOU BY MIRACLES and wonders and signs, which GOD DID BY HIM in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24Whom GOD HATH RAISED UP, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it."
acts 2:32-36"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are WITNESSES. 33Therefore being by THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD EXALTED, and having RECEIVED of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, HE HATH SHED FORTH THIS, which ye now see and hear....v 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE THAT SAME JESUS, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."....
Revelation5:6-9 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"
Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God, He is what the Word of God says clearly, the Christ promised from ages pastm and testified of by those who followed. The Christ and Son of the Living God.
1 timothy 2:5-6 "For there is one God, and one MEDIATOR BETWEEN God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
There is One God, and One Begotten Son of God, He is the Christ.
Behold a son was born.
And amen.
wow dudes he was not lieing when he said if you have seen my spirit you have seen the father and he wasnt lieing when he prayed to the father. when he prayed to his father he was jesus the son. theres no miss repersentation here.
He was most certainly telling the truth when he said he will be a wondeful cousenler. hale to the politicians who where once counselers
And amen.
wow dudes he was not lieing when he said if you have seen my spirit you have seen the father and he wasnt lieing when he prayed to the father. when he prayed to his father he was jesus the son. theres no miss repersentation here.
He was most certainly telling the truth when he said he will be a wondeful cousenler. hale to the politicians who where once counselers
This is a forum.. giving advice is what it is all about.. Once i post a post i am expecting to recieve other peoples opinions.. And if someone tells me the same thing that i told you i would be ok with it.. I don't have to accept anyone else's advice.. But i don't object to their right to give it..
This is a forum.. Expect it..
This is a forum.. Expect it..
The subject has been going around for 1000's of years, Arius changed thinking in this area and he was just one. If you apply human reasoning to this subject you are going to get all mixed up. As humans we are fouls. We are talking about the nature of GOD and in the this case the Nature of Jesus. God does reveal light to us but we should be humble and reverent about how much we think we understand .For those that don't want to see Jesus as God, they have their verses and their way of interpreting the verses to make Jesus less so it often will not matter what you say. Like a child that can't understand nuclear physics God isn't going to expect us to understand something so deep. A simple faith is all we need, and my faith says Jesus was 100% human and 100% God.
I look at it like this...
If Jesus was a creator-ed being than His death on the cross for the sins of the world would only be worth one creatored being. But if Jesus was the creator and God of Man than His death is worth every creatored human that ever lived.
I look at it like this...
If Jesus was a creator-ed being than His death on the cross for the sins of the world would only be worth one creatored being. But if Jesus was the creator and God of Man than His death is worth every creatored human that ever lived.
Amen, brother. There are a lot of folks who should pay heed to this. During Jesus' time on earth the leaders of the Sanhedrin and teachers of the law touted themselves as being the wisest and most knowledgeable among the Jews. That turned out not to be the case.
One problem with starting a thread like this to ask questions and discuss things is that many people on CC just assume the OP has some agenda to further. Some will join in to twist that person's words and characterize him as an apostate, and even suggest that he seek out "like minded" people to be with (whatever that means).
But maybe the person just wants to ask questions and discuss the issue.
One problem with starting a thread like this to ask questions and discuss things is that many people on CC just assume the OP has some agenda to further. Some will join in to twist that person's words and characterize him as an apostate, and even suggest that he seek out "like minded" people to be with (whatever that means).
But maybe the person just wants to ask questions and discuss the issue.
This is a very good question. Why does Jesus have to be God?
You could reverse the question, what was Jesus saying and trying to prove?
1. God and man have a similar approach to life
2. God and man can be friends
3. Mans issue is in their heart, a lack of love caused by hurts and pain
4. Mans resolution is in knowing God, and the cross, and letting love free
5. Righteousness is actually possible with God, into eternity
God by becoming a man proved His intention and desire to bring man to
himself, to make him pure and holy, to have eternal fellowship with friends.
It had to be God, because only He could make this statement of absolute
justice and truth, without any question, that everything was now possible.
The problem is it is a process of transformation, where you only discover
the truth by taking one step at a time.
Now we all know we love our parents, whether we like it or not.
Does that not strike you as odd, that love is at the core of our beings?
Look around the world, and you soon realise by the time we are adults, most
of this has been kick or blasted out of us, to create a partially working, emotionally
repressed, creature fighting to survive. That is the price you pay for wanting to
go ones own way, and knowing what is good and evil, and believing we can get away
with it.
Now the question I ask, do you see the love Christ is expressing through the cross,
and the message that sin needs to be forgiven and cleansed from our hearts?
You could reverse the question, what was Jesus saying and trying to prove?
1. God and man have a similar approach to life
2. God and man can be friends
3. Mans issue is in their heart, a lack of love caused by hurts and pain
4. Mans resolution is in knowing God, and the cross, and letting love free
5. Righteousness is actually possible with God, into eternity
God by becoming a man proved His intention and desire to bring man to
himself, to make him pure and holy, to have eternal fellowship with friends.
It had to be God, because only He could make this statement of absolute
justice and truth, without any question, that everything was now possible.
The problem is it is a process of transformation, where you only discover
the truth by taking one step at a time.
Now we all know we love our parents, whether we like it or not.
Does that not strike you as odd, that love is at the core of our beings?
Look around the world, and you soon realise by the time we are adults, most
of this has been kick or blasted out of us, to create a partially working, emotionally
repressed, creature fighting to survive. That is the price you pay for wanting to
go ones own way, and knowing what is good and evil, and believing we can get away
with it.
Now the question I ask, do you see the love Christ is expressing through the cross,
and the message that sin needs to be forgiven and cleansed from our hearts?
Yes, the love of God working in us not of our own selves lest any man like the man in Mathew 7 boast as if His love could come from the sinner.
So yes love, but inspect to whose work of faith seeing no man will(impossible) be found with a righteousness of their own selves.
Have you been born again as in having past from eternal death to eternal life? Doing a work of loving another is not how we do become new creatures. Even the devil loves those who love Him.
So yes love, but inspect to whose work of faith seeing no man will(impossible) be found with a righteousness of their own selves.
Have you been born again as in having past from eternal death to eternal life? Doing a work of loving another is not how we do become new creatures. Even the devil loves those who love Him.
3 working in unity as one.
For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. Isaiah 41:13.
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? Mathew 22:44.
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mathew 26:64.
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Luke 20:42.
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. Luke 22:69.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:33.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26.
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Luke 4:1.
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:8.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew !0:33.
For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. Isaiah 41:13.
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? Mathew 22:44.
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mathew 26:64.
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Luke 20:42.
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. Luke 22:69.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:33.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26.
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Luke 4:1.
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:8.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew !0:33.
New guy here, with a new guy question. Background: I'm a longtime Christian, and I've spent a lot of time over the years studying the bible and various Christian books. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But lately I've been mulling over a rather troubling question:
Is Jesus God?
I have thoughts on both sides of the fence concerning this question:
Jesus is God:
Jesus isn't God:
Where I am now in my beliefs: I love Jesus, and hope to meet him someday. I believe Jesus died for my sins, ushering in a new era for humanity. I believe his ascension into heaven is the reason the holy spirit was sent to man. I believe we are saved through Jesus by repenting, inviting the Holy Spirit into our hearts and having faith in God. I believe that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (Matt 14:20). But I don't necessarily think this means Jesus is God. Does faith require that we think Jesus is God?
What are the implications, to me, of having this belief and these questions? Is such belief acceptable to Christian churches?
(Sorry for the extremely long question.)
Is Jesus God?
I have thoughts on both sides of the fence concerning this question:
Jesus is God:
- Jesus forgave sins. (Matt 9:2)
- Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. (John 14:9)
- Jesus performed miracles.
- Jesus knew thoughts. (Luke 5:22)
Jesus isn't God:
- Jesus prayed to God. (Matt 26:36)
- Jesus "knows" the father. (Matt 11:27)
- God was well pleased with his son. (Mark 1:11)
- Jesus' Father’s house has many rooms. (John 14:2)
- No one comes to the Father except through Jesus. (John 14:2)
- "If you really know me, you WILL know my Father as well." (John 14:2; emphasis added on WILL)
- "whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing ... because I am going to the Father." (John 14:12)
- you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One. (Mark 14:62)
- Jesus was a human man on earth (before crucifixion) born of a human mother, Mary.
Where I am now in my beliefs: I love Jesus, and hope to meet him someday. I believe Jesus died for my sins, ushering in a new era for humanity. I believe his ascension into heaven is the reason the holy spirit was sent to man. I believe we are saved through Jesus by repenting, inviting the Holy Spirit into our hearts and having faith in God. I believe that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (Matt 14:20). But I don't necessarily think this means Jesus is God. Does faith require that we think Jesus is God?
What are the implications, to me, of having this belief and these questions? Is such belief acceptable to Christian churches?
(Sorry for the extremely long question.
)