Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit

[Enow]

a long read but you said "not really" in the beginning of your writing bout Jesus , then you say using John 7 which was before the Crucifixion says the Holy Spirit had not yet been given..

If you need more of His words to see that Jesus was talking about the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost that comes at our salvation when He has gone to the Father; then here it is;

John 7:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.[SUP]34 [/SUP]Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?[SUP]36 [/SUP]What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come?[SUP]37 [/SUP]In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.[SUP]38 [/SUP]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.[SUP]39 [/SUP](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Now you could argue.. oh but wait.. verses 33-36 is not connected to verses 37 to 39, for which I then point to...John 14th chapter where Jesus spoke of His leaving to the Father and thus no longer present with them before the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost would come at their salvation.


John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.....[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you............[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.[SUP]25[/SUP]These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Spirit worked in the context of the Old testament which the Spirit of God would come on a person but not IN the person; the Spirit of God came on Jesus and what? Remained. no where did it say HE left before the Cross. your out of context with John 20:28 and matt 10. Matt 10 was before the Cross and John 20:22 was after the resurrection .

You have to listen to what Jesus said about the promise of the Holy Spirit that will never leave them as indicative that they had received eternal life.... and that was for when He was no longer present with them.

Paul testified of having that specific promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father is having eternal life.

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

So do not equate what Jesus was talking about in how we are saved as in born again as in born of the Spirit to those 2 temporary filling of the Holy Ghost nor to a totally different & nonrelevant event at Jesus's water baptism because Jesus was talking about how & WHEN we, us sinners, are saved.

 

[garee]

a long read but you said "not really" in the beginning of your writing bout Jesus , then you say using John 7 which was before the Crucifixion says the Holy Spirit had not yet been given.. The Holy Spirit worked in the context of the Old testament which the Spirit of God would come on a person but not IN the person; the Spirit of God came on Jesus and what? Remained. no where did it say HE left before the Cross. your out of context with John 20:28 and matt 10. Matt 10 was before the Cross and John 20:22 was after the resurrection .

I have heard of that before.it is not supported by the word of God. But does come from those who separate the old testament Jew form the new testament .

But scripture does not say the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ was not in the old testament saint. It is the Spirit of Christ that taught them working in them and comforted them and brought all things to their mind of what he has taught them.

If any man old testament, new testament do not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Him.

They received the salvation of their souls just as we do. By the faith of Christ in them .They looked ahead by the same Spirit of faith according as it is written, we look back. One bride the church.

God as the father of many nations puts no difference between a Jew and Gentile purifying the hearts of both by a work of Christ’s faith working in us

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was "in them" did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9

 

[Enow]

I have heard of that before.it is not supported by the word of God. But does come from those who separate the old testament Jew form the new testament .

But scripture does not say the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ was not in the old testament saint. It is the Spirit of Christ that taught them working in them and comforted them and brought all things to their mind of what he has taught them.

If any man old testament, new testament do not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Him.

They received the salvation of their souls just as we do. By the faith of Christ in them .They looked ahead by the same Spirit of faith according as it is written, we look back. One bride the church.

God as the father of many nations puts no difference between a Jew and Gentile purifying the hearts of both by a work of Christ’s faith working in us

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was "in them" did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9

At this link below testify when the O.T. saints had received the Spirit of Christ, and it was not before His crucifixion.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/148110-where-were-o-t-saints-before-christ-had-come.html#post2979164

 

[DavidA7]

Even David said "take not thy Holy Spirit from me." A lot of verses al over the New Testament tells about what reward we will get... but that magic word "IF!" We continue in the walk. And pretrib rapture isn't biblical.

 

[CS1]

This is an interesting question.
The Spirit fell on Jesus, and John the Baptist was born anointed.

It appears the disciples could heal, caste out demons on Jesus's authority without
being anointed, but "clean" and believing.

After pentecost, the Holy Spirit dwelt in the believers hearts as a Holy Temple.
If one takes the verses about the law being written on our hearts, the law of Christ,
as the law of Moses is now fulfilled through the cross, it makes our relationship with
God real communion and intimate in a way that was not held before.

I grew up in the time of the charismatic revivals and baptism in the Holy Spirit was
very defined. I have though wondered about this, being an infilling of the Spirit,
rather than a baptism which comes when we are born again, born of the Spirit.

Only recently have I begun to see the prophets as brother in the Lord, though
what we have is greater, because the barrier is now removed.

It does beg the question about righteous living, purity, holiness and getting right
with the Lord, but I think the theology dictates certain consequences, based on
Pauls teaching.

The work Of the Holy Spirit after the resurrection is as Jesus said HE would in John 14 and 16. The Holy Spirit come to be a resident in the Believer and also Empower the believer to be a Witness. The Holy Spirit in John 14 :16 Jesus speaking says :

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Verse 14:17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Verse 18 :

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Verse 26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

then more in John 16:13 Jesus speaking:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] shall he speak: and [/FONT]he will shew you things to come.

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Now what is the Holy Spirit doing for the believer? everything Jesus is saying will happen after HE has risen from the Dead.
[/FONT] The Holy Spirit will:
.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][/FONT]1. Abide with you forever
2.dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
3.I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
4.he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
5.he will guide you into all truth:
6.he will shew you things to come.
7. Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power,[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] after that the [/FONT]Holy Ghost is come upon you[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]: and ye [/FONT]shall be witnesses[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the [/FONT]uttermost part of the earth.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]This was was told to the disciples because of the new Thing the Holy Spirit was going to do to those who came to salvation by way of the Cross both men and women. This is very distinct from the work of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament [/FONT]

 

[CS1]

I have heard of that before.it is not supported by the word of God. But does come from those who separate the old testament Jew form the new testament .

But scripture does not say the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ was not in the old testament saint. It is the Spirit of Christ that taught them working in them and comforted them and brought all things to their mind of what he has taught them.

If any man old testament, new testament do not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Him.

They received the salvation of their souls just as we do. By the faith of Christ in them .They looked ahead by the same Spirit of faith according as it is written, we look back. One bride the church.

God as the father of many nations puts no difference between a Jew and Gentile purifying the hearts of both by a work of Christ’s faith working in us

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was "in them" did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9

I am not sure what you are meaning? the Spirit of Christ is in context of Jesus prior to the Incarnation . CHirst has always existed the Bible is very clear of the Personification of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament

the Old Testament names for the Holy Spirit

Gen 1:2 " Spirit of God
Gen 41:38 " Spirit of God"

26 times this is used in the Old Testament in Context to the Holy Spirit.

Jud 3:10 " Sprit of the Lord"
1sam 10:6 " Spirit of the Lord"

is used 261 times in context to the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament

The Spirit of the Living God / Spirit of the Lord is not in context to the Spirit of Christ but this is speaking of the Personification of the Third person of the Godhead. what you are saying is not correct or biblical

 

[CS1]

Because what they had was a temporary filling of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus promised that once He had gone away to the Father above, it was then that the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost would be sent from the Father as Jesus baptized new believers in His name in becoming like citizens with Him in Heaven. It is Jesus that brings us to God and He has to lead the way as Christ the firstfruits by being in Heaven first before we can receive that seal of adoption from the Father; hence our salvation for when we had received the Holy Spirit, we had received eternal life for God is in us and is with us. That is the testimony we are to share and preach the Good News for there is no other calling for saved believers to preach nor to seek regarding the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

you are saying that the Disciples action were from an Old Testament work of the Holy Spirit before the death and resurrection of Christ as Jesus said ? The Holy Spirit came on them but did not come to live in them yet . That is what I see in the bible too

 

[CS1]

Even David said "take not thy Holy Spirit from me." A lot of verses al over the New Testament tells about what reward we will get... but that magic word "IF!" We continue in the walk. And pretrib rapture isn't biblical.

sorry David this topic is not about the pretrib rapture

 

[CS1]

At this link below testify when the O.T. saints had received the Spirit of Christ, and it was not before His crucifixion.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/148110-where-were-o-t-saints-before-christ-had-come.html#post2979164

Some Believe in the abode of the Righteous dead Paradise in the Greek = a holding place until Jesus went a liberated them.

 

[CS1]

[h=2]Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit[/h]

 

[CS1]

[h=2]Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit[/h]

 

[plaintalk]

SovereignGrace:

"Then in Acts 19, Paul lays hands on some ppl and they received the Spirit of God and he commands them to be baptized in the name of Jesus." Is this statement true? When I read Acts 19: 5, 6 it appears that they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and then Paul laid hands on them and then the Holy Spirit came upon them! If so that would be in accord with the order of events, baptism- then gift of the Holy Spirit, given to all men. (Acts 2: 38, 39) Even Cornelius received the gift of the Holy Spirit after believing. (Acts 11: 17)
God bless.

 

[RickyZ]

Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit

It amazes me to see how many people will cling to the account in Acts, and use that to invalidate the accounts of Corinthians

 

[plaintalk]

Peter taught that the Holy Spirit is received as a gift after repentance and baptism in the name of Christ (Acts 2; 38, 39) The Holy Spirit is given to those that obey. (Acts 5: 32)
God bless.

 

[wolfwint]

SovereignGrace:

"Then in Acts 19, Paul lays hands on some ppl and they received the Spirit of God and he commands them to be baptized in the name of Jesus." Is this statement true? When I read Acts 19: 5, 6 it appears that they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and then Paul laid hands on them and then the Holy Spirit came upon them! If so that would be in accord with the order of events, baptism- then gift of the Holy Spirit, given to all men. (Acts 2: 38, 39) Even Cornelius received the gift of the Holy Spirit after believing. (Acts 11: 17)
God bless.

Acts is not teaching the baptism with the Holy Spirit. It just reports about the coming of the Holy Spirit to different believe Groups. At First, as promised to the Jews (Acts 2), then to the Samaritians (Acts 8) then to the gentiles (Acts 10) and finally to the disciples of John the baptist ( Acts 19) And if you Read the context then you will find out Why it is reportet in an openly way. For to proof to the Jews that the Holy Spirit is given not only to the believing Jews, but also to the Samaritians, the Gentiles and to the disciples of John the Baptist. To create a doctrine of an baptism with the Holy Spirit as an seperate expierience from the bornagain event is Really an speculation, but is not Bases on scripture truth. This Why we cant find this teaching in one of the letters To the believers of the First churches. And we cant find this teaching during the churchhistorie Till to the Year 1900 in topeka and later in the azusastreet Events.
The bible teaches the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but not in an Special Event and not in this Wise that everyone is getting the ability to speak in tongues as sign for this baptism.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Let me ask you this question, do know if you are filled with the holy ghost? Because scripture says that if you are not, you don't belong to him. People are disputing this a lot, why?, well because they most likely are not spirit filled.

 

[wolfwint]

Let me ask you this question, do know if you are filled with the holy ghost? Because scripture says that if you are not, you don't belong to him. People are disputing this a lot, why?, well because they most likely are not spirit filled.

Show me please where it is written.

 

[wolfwint]

Let me ask you this question, do know if you are filled with the holy ghost? Because scripture says that if you are not, you don't belong to him. People are disputing this a lot, why?, well because they most likely are not spirit filled.

Hi, gabriel2020, you can not claim something such important thing from the scripture without giving the scriptual record. Where is this written?

 

[CS1]

Acts is not teaching the baptism with the Holy Spirit. It just reports about the coming of the Holy Spirit to different believe Groups. At First, as promised to the Jews (Acts 2), then to the Samaritians (Acts 8) then to the gentiles (Acts 10) and finally to the disciples of John the baptist ( Acts 19) And if you Read the context then you will find out Why it is reportet in an openly way. For to proof to the Jews that the Holy Spirit is given not only to the believing Jews, but also to the Samaritians, the Gentiles and to the disciples of John the Baptist. To create a doctrine of an baptism with the Holy Spirit as an seperate expierience from the bornagain event is Really an speculation, but is not Bases on scripture truth. This Why we cant find this teaching in one of the letters To the believers of the First churches. And we cant find this teaching during the churchhistorie Till to the Year 1900 in topeka and later in the azusastreet Events.
The bible teaches the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but not in an Special Event and not in this Wise that everyone is getting the ability to speak in tongues as sign for this baptism.

Yes and no. The Baptisim of the Holy Spirit was not for salvation it was empowerment . as Acts 1:8 states you will recieve Power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you. The context of come upon was like the Old testament account read about
The "Spirit of the Lord " = Holy Spirit . How He came on Samson, Elijah, Elishia , David etc.. all had a relationship with God
agreed? They all knew God agreed ? they all did mighty works of God after " the Spirit of the Lord " came upon them" agreed?

If you read John 20 :22 " 2 [FONT=&quot]And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus after, told them to go and wait why? they had the Holy Spirit . It was for empowrment remember the Holy Spirit relationship with man had changed from the Old teasament somewhat did HE not? read John 14 and 16 chapters:

John 14:17 "17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Holy Spirit had never yet came into someone always came upon them. Now HE lioves inside us Praise God.
John 16:

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is for witnessing as acts 1:8 says and Acts 2 Confirms[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes and no. The Baptisim of the Holy Spirit was not for salvation it was empowerment . as Acts 1:8 states you will recieve Power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you. The context of come upon was like the Old testament account read about
The "Spirit of the Lord " = Holy Spirit . How He came on Samson, Elijah, Elishia , David etc.. all had a relationship with God
agreed? They all knew God agreed ? they all did mighty works of God after " the Spirit of the Lord " came upon them" agreed?

If you read John 20 :22 " 2 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus after, told them to go and wait why? they had the Holy Spirit . It was for empowrment remember the Holy Spirit relationship with man had changed from the Old teasament somewhat did HE not? read John 14 and 16 chapters:

John 14:17 "17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Holy Spirit had never yet came into someone always came upon them. Now HE lioves inside us Praise God.
John 16:


7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is for witnessing as acts 1:8 says and Acts 2 Confirms

If baptism of the hs is not for salvation, then what baptism does save? Water?

Acts 1:8: you shall recieve power when the HS has come on you, to come on or in is the word anoint, it is the anointing of the spirit that gives us power,