ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

CLee622 · Mar 2, 2017

You must be baptized by/in the Spirit. It's an inner change not "the washing of dirt from the body" .. the Greek word for baptism can refer to a piece of material being immersed in dye, thereby changing its properties forever. This is inside, God sees and looks at and changes hearts. Our works and actions follow. But the blood and resurrection of Christ is our salvation. HE is our Salvation. Nothing we do or don't do can add to or take from it if He indeed called us.

And what of the thief on the cross? If God makes "acceptions" then the teaching is new/not in scripture and not of God. It's assumption whereas clearly ONE spiritual baptism aligns with all His Word.

CLee622 · Mar 2, 2017

We may as well all be on a cross - destined for hell - sometimes people DO surrender to God in the last moments of their life, unable to be baptized. You have to "add" all sorts of things to God's Word to make baptism a means of salvation and it's quite clearly... not.

mailmandan · Mar 3, 2017

plaintalk said:

This indicates that you are wrong in your assumption - *In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) that brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Jesus says we shall be saved when we BELIEVE multiple times without even mentioning baptism. Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Again, given the right to become a child of God means that we actually do become a child of God/born of God the moment that we believe in His name and not at some time later.

Once again, you are drinking the wrong water. Plain ordinary H20 (water baptism) has no power to mystically cause us to become born again. John 3:5 fits perfectly with John 4:10,14; 7:37-39. *Jesus connects this water with eternal life and living water is not water baptism. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37 for the word drink(s). The two elements found in the new birth (John 3:5) are living water and the Spirit (Who is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing).

False. Paul clearly said that we are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (.) PERIOD! *End of sentence and thought on how we become children of God. Next sentence, next thought - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourselves with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses. You need to rightly divide the word of truth here.

So how does one "put on" Christ in baptism? Is it because one becomes a "child of God" through water baptism? NO. Is Paul saying that we become children of God by water baptism as much as children of God by faith in Christ? NO.

"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on (endue) the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:12,14). This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well (Romans 13:14). Right? NO. *This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.

"Put off," wrote Paul, "the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness"(Ephesians 4:22,24); And, "put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil" (Ephesians 6:11). *Written to those ALREADY SAVED.

The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones, to enclosing oneself in armor, etc. When a soldier puts on a uniform, he is revealing himself to be a soldier and putting on what he has previously been qualified to wear. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier he is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier.

Putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications.

So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on robes for which they have previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14.

*If one puts on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

plaintalk · Mar 3, 2017

to CLee622:
When our Lord walked this earth, He had authority to forgive sin as He wills, including the thief of the cross. We are all baptized with the Spirit and we are made to drink of the one Spirit, indicating that the Spirit influences and works in our entire being, inside and out. (1 Cor. 12: 13) We are promised that we will all receive the spirit upon repentance and baptism in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2: 38, 39) Why do we call Him, Lord, Lord, and not do His will. The gospel is not a smorgasbord were we pick and choose what we like. God bless.

plaintalk · Mar 3, 2017

Jesus said, "He has believed and has been baptized shall be saved." (Mark 16: 16) Why is that so difficult to accept? God bless.

plaintalk · Mar 3, 2017

to mailmandan:
In Exodus 29 the consecration of Aaron and his sons foreshadows our consecration to God's service. They were washed with water. (v.4) They were clothed with the priestly garments. (v. 5, 6) They were anointed with oil of gladness (representing the Holy Spirit. (v. 7) The new covenant preserves same order. Jesus was baptized in water. He was clothed with His own righteousness. He received the Holy Spirit. We are baptized into Christ. We are clothed with Christ. We receive the Holy Spirit. (Gal 3: 26, 27; 4: 6) Your spin and verbosity does not change it.

The preposition "for" in v. 27 clearly connects becoming a son of God by faith with baptism into Christ, and your spin does not change it. (Gal. 3: 26, 27)

Jesus said, "he who has been believed and has been baptized shall be saved." (Mark 16: 16) Your spin and the spin of A. T. Robertson does not change it.

Given the right to become a child does not mean that they were children of God immediately, your spin does change it.

notuptome · Mar 3, 2017

plaintalk said:

You have not demonstrated that the baptism in view here is water. Mark 16:16 is a contested section of scripture. Many feel that the real long ending of Mark is lost and the ending we have is the effort of a scribe who was endeavoring to be helpful.

The only baptism required for salvation is Holy Spirit baptism. Water baptism has no effect on salvation.

Phillip baptized the eunuch in water only after the eunuch testified that he believe in Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

CLee622 · Mar 3, 2017

plaintalk said:

His authority to forgive sin as He wills did not stop when He ascended. Nor was it limited before He came to earth. I could stop there...but John saying specifically "I baptize with water" and clearly stating Christ baptizes with the Spirit - should end all these discussions. But they won't and it saddens me.

I was born again. Out of nowhere - I was not seeking salvation (( "I gave access to them that asked not for Me, I was at hand to them that sought Me not; I said: 'Behold Me, behold Me', Unto a nation that was not called by My name." Is 65:1 ..) I was then baptized but not for forgiveness- or to "get" the Spirit... I already had Him (and didn't know how or what it meant yet) out of obedience. I did not receive power from the Spirit til many months later. That was when I began studying and growing.

My only hope is people who believe baptism helps save them or makes God move on them - truly trust in Christ ALONE for Salvation and entrance to the kingdom. No work they've done. No act they've completed. Christ alone

mailmandan · Mar 3, 2017

plaintalk said:

Your erroneous broken record arguments have already been refuted numerous times. When are you going to stop fighting the truth and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL? There was no spin of Mark 16:16 or AT Robertson. Your spin does not change the fact that man become a child of God THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST PRIOR TO WATER BAPTISM. PERIOD.

Your theology is truly water logged.

plaintalk · Mar 4, 2017

We appear to have one conversion example were both the baptism with the Spirit and baptism in water in the name of Christ come into play, that is Cornelius and his household. Normally the Spirit is received by faith upon repentance and baptism in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sins; our Lord changed the order of events in this case to convince Peter and the other Jewish brethren that the Gentiles were acceptable to God. When Peter saw that Cornelius and his household had amazingly received the Spirit he ordered them to be baptized in water in the name of Christ. The baptism with the Spirit did not appear to make the baptism in water in the name unnecessary, both are required. The baptism in water in the name of Christ appears to be about repentance (at least it was in John the Baptist's baptism) and being baptized into Christ and into His death, burial and resurrection. It is about death and the forgiveness of sins through the blood of Christ. Our old self is crucified with Him. (Rom. 6: 3-7) The baptism with the Spirit, on the other had, is about life (regeneration) and renewal and receiving the Spirit to dwell in us. It is about receiving a new heart and a new spirit; it is our seal that we are children of God and His pledge that He will resurrect our mortal bodies. We need both; if we die with Him, we arise so that we might live with Him. IMO the two together are the one baptism. When we come forth from this baptismal experience we are born of water and Spirit. (John 3: 3, 5) God bless.

CLee622 · Mar 4, 2017

If the forgiveness is through the Blood it can only be through the Blood.

In acts after Peter saw they had the Spirit he didn't command they get baptized he said "“Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

then yes yes English translations render the Greek word "protasso" as "commanded but it doesn't mean that only - it means :

[*=left]to assign or ascribe to, join to

[*=left]to enjoin, order, prescribe, command
1. [*=left]to appoint, to define
  
  Sounds like he then "prescribed" and "defined" baptism for them. It's given as a SIGN not a tool that helps salvation.
  
  Peter was even asking "CAN we forbid baptism?" If it was somehow required for "full" salvation why would Peter question this??

CLee622 · Mar 4, 2017

"For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!"

plaintalk · Mar 4, 2017

Like you, I believe the gospel, Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and He died for our sins, was buried and arose from the dead on the third day. Apparently unlike you, I have also obeyed the gospel (2 Thess. 1: 8). By the grace of God, I was baptized into Christ and into His death; in doing so I died to the old self, was buried with Him in baptism to arise with Him to newness of life. (Rom. 6: 3-7) By His doing I am in Christ Jesus. (1 Cor. 1: 30) Praise God! There is no personal merit to me for believing the truth or obeying the truth; that is what we all should do; when we have done all that is commanded, we are still unprofitable servants. God bless.

CLee622 · Mar 4, 2017

Assumptions....so many on here. So you assume I am not baptized into Christ based on what? That I preach Christ alone saves??? Hence...the gospel? I have been baptized -but Christ baptized me with the Holy Spirit. Me being in the water is a testament to the truth of my regeneration. Just like the description of the centurion.

You are a lot older than me and I am not going to argue with you. You didn't answer my questions though. You just continued asserting your view that Christ's death/blood/resurrection HE isn't what saves and/or God only moves by Spirit when we do some physical thing.

plaintalk · Mar 4, 2017

to CLee622:
Sorry, that last post was to mailmandan, not for you. I realized my error as soon as I clicked, I have a great deal of respect for you and your posts although obviously we disagree; I attempt to not pass judgment on anyone; again I apologize. I believe that when we obey our Lord by repentance and baptism in the name of Christ, our hearts are sprinkled clean by the blood of Christ. Baptism in water is not only the symbol of being cleansed by the blood of Christ it is the TIME that we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ and it is far more than that.
(1 Peter 1: 2) As our bodies are being washed with pure water, we are sprinkled clean with the blood of Christ. (Heb. 10: 22) I am not sure I understand your conversion experience so it is better not to comment. I do believe that we are all saved by the grace of God through faith. Our faith works through love with the works of faith to perfect or complete our faith. (James 2: 20- 24) IMO baptism in the name of Christ, repentance, calling on the name of the Lord and confessing his name are all works of faith.
God bless. By the way I am only 83 years old. The NASB has " he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." (Acts 10: 48)

samuel23 · Mar 4, 2017

The people in the house with Cornelius were saved BEFORE they were baptized in water...deal with that.

mailmandan · Mar 5, 2017

plaintalk said:

Simply believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and believing that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" is not believing the gospel. Even the demons believe that. You must also TRUST in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. Your problem is that you believe/trust in "water and works" as the means of your salvation, which means that you don't trust exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation which also means that you don't truly believe the gospel.

You made a false assumption about CLee622. Getting water baptized is not obeying the gospel. We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" You have obeyed a "different" gospel. The false gospel of Campbellism. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as the Savior of those who believe/trust in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation.

If one gets water baptized without first placing their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in CHRIST ALONE for salvation, then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

We are placed into the body of Christ when we believe the gospel. Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.

This happens through Spirit baptism, not water baptism. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

The point here in Luke 17:10 is that a servant should expect no special reward for doing what is their duty in the first place, not that we are saved by unmerited works after we have been saved through faith. Jesus Christ gets 100% credit for our salvation. Salvation through Christ + works = personal merit for man. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. You can't have it both ways.

mailmandan · Mar 5, 2017

samuel23 said:

Amen! In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. These Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. *Crystal clear.

plaintalk · Mar 5, 2017

samuel23:
How do you know when they were saved? You give no references. The Jews who came with Peter were amazed because the Spirit had been poured out on Gentiles also. This was an exceptional case. God had to speak to Peter three times in a vision before he would talk to the Gentiles at his gate. Acts 11: 14 states that they were saved by the words spoken by Peter, but Peter spoke to them twice. Were they saved like everyone else? (Acts 15: 11) Were they saved before they repented that leads to life. (Acts 11: 18) Were they saved before they died to the old self? (Rom. 6: 6) Were they freed from their sin before they died? (Rom 6: 7) Apparently only those who have died with Christ, live with Christ? (Rom. 6: 8) Were they saved before they obeyed so that they might be sprinkled with the blood of Christ? (1 Peter 1: 2) We have to many questions before we make dogmatic statements. It seems to me that we can't be born of water and the Spirit (John 3: 5) unless we have first been immersed in both, water and Spirit? In my opinion, we need both to complete our response to God. God bless.

plaintalk · Mar 5, 2017

Roger, Jesus says we must be born of both water and Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. (John 3: 3, 5)

ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

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