Women Pastors? Help me.

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,070
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Exactly what are you calling and meaning by genetic fallacy? We believe the Bible clearly forbids a woman from being in a position of Pastor or Teaching Elder in an Worship Service. WHY? Because it says so.

If you are questioning when the practice of ordaining women began, that is a matter of looking up Church History, but I remind you that there have always been Laodicean type Churches, but only in this final stage of the Church Age, are they becoming the dominant type of Church. PROOF that they will be the DOMINANT type of Church just before our Bridegroom sends the Archangel to call us to the Wedding of the Lamb, is in Mathew chapter 7.
If you haven't done so, please go and learn what a genetic fallacy is. Then come back, read what I quoted of yours, and consider how your reasoning constitutes a genetic fallacy. At the same time, you might want to learn also what constitutes "proof" so that you don't misuse the word as you did in this post. Also, by the way, "many" does not mean "dominant". :)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,993
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Your problem is you don't even know that you're not of the mind of Christ or the mind of Paul and you think that your point of view is the majority view when it isn't unless of course you include the RCC, which would mean you'd have to accept their theological point of view, and many other things that are not sound doctrine.
FYI, people who are apostate don't hang around Christian Forums discussing Christian theology. The same cannot be said however of self-righteous Christians, and there are quite a few of you on this forum and this thread. Remember what Paul said;
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
That you keep misquoting scripture in order to condemn others, shows exactly where your heart is at and I suggest that you repent of your self-righteous and condemnation.

I have not misquoted any Scripture, I have however seen a lot of it ignored, or rationalized away.

I prefer to answer false doctrine and mis-understandings of Scripture with the Verses that show the correct interpretations.

I certainly am not self-righteous, I know HOW GREAT A SINNER I WAS when HE chose to SAVE ME after my third attempt of suicide. And I certainly know that I am far from perfect, but GOD is not finished perfecting me yet. Do I love and adore my LORD, OH YES, and I strive to OBEY all of HIS commands to the best of my ability; and when I fail, I eagerly confess that sin and repent of it, getting back up to continue to strive to obey HIM.

Do I believe every verse in the Bible was Inspired by GOD. ABSOLUTELY! It is the absolute authority over one's Christian Walk and lifestyle.

The part of your post that I highlighted in red, I disagree with totally, and may only be naivety on your part. But know that I do consider you a Christian Brother, even though we disagree on some subjects. Apostates and wolves in sheep's clothing, certainly do hang around Christian Forums, trying to deceive the lambs:

Acts 20:28-31 (NRSV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] I know that after I have gone, savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Some even from your own group will come distorting the truth in order to entice the disciples to follow them.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to warn everyone with tears.

Matthew 7:15 (GWT)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets. They come to you disguised as sheep, but in their hearts they are vicious wolves.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,993
4,608
113
If you haven't done so, please go and learn what a genetic fallacy is. Then come back, read what I quoted of yours, and consider how your reasoning constitutes a genetic fallacy. At the same time, you might want to learn also what constitutes "proof" so that you don't misuse the word as you did in this post. Also, by the way, "many" does not mean "dominant". :)
Believe me, SCRIPTURE does not change it's meaning to conform with the current political correctness.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

AS FAR AS YOUR COMMENT ON "MANY"; this is in the same CONTEXT:

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Here is an audio tape if your really want to learn about the Laodicean Age:

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/66-14/laodicea-the-lukewarm-church-part-1
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,070
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Believe me, SCRIPTURE does not change it's meaning to conform with the current political correctness.
Fair point on the many versus the few, but that does not give "proof" that such will be "dominant" in the Church, as the "many" in Jesus' statement you quoted are not in the Church. I agree regarding political correctness, but why do you bring it up?
 
S

StanJ

Guest
I have not misquoted any Scripture, I have however seen a lot of it ignored, or rationalized away.
I prefer to answer false doctrine and mis-understandings of Scripture with the Verses that show the correct interpretations.
When you use scripture in a condemnatory fashion you are misquoting it. When you use scripture out of context with an erroneous application you are misquoting it.
What you prefer to do is use different English translations to support your pre dispositional bias with words not with understanding. It doesn't really matter what English version you use if you don't understand it or always use it in an eisegetical manner.
I certainly am not self-righteous, I know HOW GREAT A SINNER I WAS when HE chose to SAVE ME after my third attempt of suicide. And I certainly know that I am far from perfect, but GOD is not finished perfecting me yet. Do I love and adore my LORD, OH YES, and I strive to OBEY all of HIS commands to the best of my ability; and when I fail, I eagerly confess that sin and repent of it, getting back up to continue to strive to obey HIM.
Your own previous words contradict what you state above.
Do I believe every verse in the Bible was Inspired by GOD. ABSOLUTELY! It is the absolute authority over one's Christian Walk and lifestyle.
So you believe and accept the clear words of 1 Tim 2:15 even though it is contradicted many times in the NT?
The part of your post that I highlighted in red, I disagree with totally, and may only be naivety on your part. But know that I do consider you a Christian Brother, even though we disagree on some subjects. Apostates and wolves in sheep's clothing, certainly do hang around Christian Forums, trying to deceive the lambs:
False teachers maybe but not apostates which you obviously don't understand the meaning of.
If you don't understand metaphorical scripture then you shouldn't quote it. You quoted verses on apostasy not on false prophets originally and now as is typical you're moving the goalposts by quoting scripture that deals with false teachers which was not what I was addressing. The fact that you vacillate so much about issues like this makes it very clear as to why you don't understand plain scripture.
You will notice however in this response to you that I've addressed your entire post clearly and succinctly and I would appreciate instead of deflecting, equivocating or obfuscating, that you would do the same for my posts.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,993
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When you use scripture in a condemnatory fashion you are misquoting it. When you use scripture out of context with an erroneous application you are misquoting it.
What you prefer to do is use different English translations to support your pre dispositional bias with words not with understanding. It doesn't really matter what English version you use if you don't understand it or always use it in an eisegetical manner.

Your own previous words contradict what you state above.

So you believe and accept the clear words of 1 Tim 2:15 even though it is contradicted many times in the NT?

False teachers maybe but not apostates which you obviously don't understand the meaning of.
If you don't understand metaphorical scripture then you shouldn't quote it. You quoted verses on apostasy not on false prophets originally and now as is typical you're moving the goalposts by quoting scripture that deals with false teachers which was not what I was addressing. The fact that you vacillate so much about issues like this makes it very clear as to why you don't understand plain scripture.
You will notice however in this response to you that I've addressed your entire post clearly and succinctly and I would appreciate instead of deflecting, equivocating or obfuscating, that you would do the same for my posts.
I do not condemn, that is the Lord's Job. I will point out and correct errors, using Scriptures to make the errors obvious.

2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

APOSTASY
Act of rebelling against, forsaking, abandoning, or falling away from what one has believed.

Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.
We have a few of them here, some that even have abandoned believing in the Holy Trinity, and actively deny the Deity of Christ.

Erroneous application is purely your opinion. In my opinion, I have never as far as I know, and according to the BIBLE teaching that I was trained in, used any verse that was not applicable.

And I do not think you understand the plain Scripture that I and others have tried to share with you. So where does that leave us? The inevitable STALEMATE.
 
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StanJ

Guest
I do not condemn, that is the Lord's Job. I will point out and correct errors, using Scriptures to make the errors obvious.

2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

We have a few of them here, some that even have abandoned believing in the Holy Trinity, and actively deny the Deity of Christ.

Erroneous application is purely your opinion. In my opinion, I have never as far as I know, and according to the BIBLE teaching that I was trained in, used any verse that was not applicable.

And I do not think you understand the plain Scripture that I and others have tried to share with you. So where does that leave us? The inevitable STALEMATE.
What you do is use scriptural admonition as an ad hominem as it has no application to the person you're referencing other than to deny their correct exegesis of the word. When you fail to respond to critical thinking and questions in a positive manner and use the scriptures the way you do then that is not rebuking that is condemnation.
False teachers are not the same as apostates no matter how hard you try to insinuate it, your definition clearly shows false teachers are NOT part of apostasy.
It's not only my opinion it's fact and I have demonstrated it as such from scripture which you refused to do and can't even answer simple questions asked of you such as 1 Timothy 2:15...Do you believe it or not? It's plain scripture yet you seem to run away from dealing with it.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,993
4,608
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What you do is use scriptural admonition as an ad hominem as it has no application to the person you're referencing other than to deny their correct exegesis of the word. When you fail to respond to critical thinking and questions in a positive manner and use the scriptures the way you do then that is not rebuking that is condemnation.
False teachers are not the same as apostates no matter how hard you try to insinuate it, your definition clearly shows false teachers are NOT part of apostasy.
It's not only my opinion it's fact and I have demonstrated it as such from scripture which you refused to do and can't even answer simple questions asked of you such as 1 Timothy 2:15...Do you believe it or not? It's plain scripture yet you seem to run away from dealing with it.

False Teachers certainly can be Apostates, if they had once taught the truth and then abandon it for another doctrine.

Apostates certainly are one type of False Teachers.


APOSTASY
Act of rebelling against, forsaking, abandoning, or falling away from what one has believed.

Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] A woman should learn in silence with full submission.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.
. . .
. . .
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But she will be saved through childbearing, if she continues in faith, love, and holiness, with good judgment.



What do you MEAN? You seem to have gotten the wrong idea about why we do not believe in women becoming Pastors. NOWHERE have I ever denied the relevance of verse 15. But verse 15 is NOT erasing verses 11 & 12. God is CLEARLY pointing out ONLY the fact that HE has given a different ROLE to women. AND verses 11 & 12 CERTAINLY ARE NOT in any way saying women are inferior. In fact, I absolutely believe GOD has given a much more important role to women, than He did to men. Men via the teaching gifts GOD has given them, through their God-given roles as men, can influence some of this generation to turn their lives over to JESUS CHRIST as LORD (meaning MASTER). GOD has given the gift of Teaching to women, to be used to teach their children, grandchildren, and the younger women. A DIFFERENT ROLE, THAT IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, because through faithful obedience to teaching those groups, women can influence MANY of the NEXT TWO OR THREE GENERATIONS to turn their lives over to JESUS CHRIST AS LORD (meaning MASTER).


Now I have one question for you.


Are you sure that what you are calling "condemning on my part",

is not CONVICTION, because of what the verses I posted actually say?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,561
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Then please go to the thread that is discussing that issue. This Thread is about women pastors.
I know what this thread is about... Woman pastors should not exist.. No woman should be in a position of authority over a man..
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
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0
I have not misquoted any Scripture, I have however seen a lot of it ignored, or rationalized away.
But there is a verse that says that if any man be ignorant, let them be ignorant.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]38 [/SUP]But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Not sure how the Lord would have us apply that in the assembly, but I reckon if a church is ignorant to allow an "ordained educated" women to be pastors, then I reckon this ignorance has been taught by our educational system of society's rather than by the Word of God in which we are to "let them" be ignorant, especially when failing to see it as running against the commandment of the Lord.

I would discern that in a church where women are not pastors or teachers that the church can come to the same judgment, if not reminded annually that they continue to follow this commandment as being from the Lord.

However, that does not negate ignoring false teachings that comes by that pastor or teacher as that would go for any male pastor or teacher as well. The elders are supposed to correct the pastors by standing up and voicing the need for clarification and why, but hardly that is a practice seen in the churches today to make sure nobody in the congregation misunderstood what the pastor had said to walk away from that congregation in error.

I prefer to answer false doctrine and mis-understandings of Scripture with the Verses that show the correct interpretations.
That has proven to be something only God can cause the increase in as I am labled as a KJVOnlyist with everything that it represents with all of its extremism when I am sharing why I rely only on the KJV to reprove all the works of darkness by it as all modern Bibles do not, but supports it because they have changed the truth in His words in all modern Bibles.

It is an argument to be avoided as I am sure they will challenge your interpretation of it all the while, they are endorsing a practice that scripture is of private interpretation when scriptures says it is not. It is too bad that the naysayers do not ask the Lord about confirming His word in the KJV, but it is better to make like sharks in the water in joining the crowd on any one that says he or she is only relying on one Bible for the meat of His words which is the KJV than to ask Him.

I certainly am not self-righteous, I know HOW GREAT A SINNER I WAS when HE chose to SAVE ME after my third attempt of suicide. And I certainly know that I am far from perfect, but GOD is not finished perfecting me yet. Do I love and adore my LORD, OH YES, and I strive to OBEY all of HIS commands to the best of my ability; and when I fail, I eagerly confess that sin and repent of it, getting back up to continue to strive to obey HIM.

Do I believe every verse in the Bible was Inspired by GOD. ABSOLUTELY! It is the absolute authority over one's Christian Walk and lifestyle.
And there is the rub. They demand private interpretation from the Greek & Hebrew to understand His words and then turn around and judge any one that interprets it differently as being self righteous or holier than thou, and yet they are the ones adding to His words as if it was about women interrupting services with false teachings when it is plainly read that they are not permitted to speak at all in the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Since we prophesy in part and know in part, this may be why Paul "lets" men and churches "be ignorant", but God holds it against them mayhap even moreso when women teach false doctrines as a result. Only the Lord can open their eyes when men or churches refuses to see the truth about His commandment when they start teaching falsehood.

The proof of that commandment may be seen with His help in proving that the Holy Spirit would NEVER manifest tongues in women thus breaking the commandment from the Lord in the assembly. Once the Lord helps them to see that commandment, He may just lead them to discern that tongue that comes without interpretation as not from the Lord and discern how they got that tongue by the proclaimed testimony of receiving what they believe was the Holy Spirit apart from their salvation. As it is, only God can peradventure to recover them from this snare of the devil when all modern Bibles supports that kind of tongue in Romans 8:26-27 as if the Holy Spirit can use that tongue in turning it around as a prayer language and thus mimicking that supernatural tongue as found in the world ( Isaiah 8:19 ) before Pentecost had come even though it runs counter to the truth in His words in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself using His own words, but by speaking what He hears from the Father when Jesus was on earth, and now from Jesus when all power has been given unto Him at His ascension in being our Savior & Good Shepherd.

But again, only God can peradventure to do this as I lean on Him to help me not to bite & devour any one, but walk away from the discussion with His help to leave them to God.

The part of your post that I highlighted in red, I disagree with totally, and may only be naivety on your part. But know that I do consider you a Christian Brother, even though we disagree on some subjects. Apostates and wolves in sheep's clothing, certainly do hang around Christian Forums, trying to deceive the lambs:

Acts 20:28-31 (NRSV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] I know that after I have gone, savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Some even from your own group will come distorting the truth in order to entice the disciples to follow them.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to warn everyone with tears.

Matthew 7:15 (GWT)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets. They come to you disguised as sheep, but in their hearts they are vicious wolves.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.
So men and women are under this warning for all churches to hear and lean on Him as our Good Shepherd to discern by.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,993
4,608
113
But there is a verse that says that if any man be ignorant, let them be ignorant.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]38 [/SUP]But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Not sure how the Lord would have us apply that in the assembly, but I reckon if a church is ignorant to allow an "ordained educated" women to be pastors, then I reckon this ignorance has been taught by our educational system of society's rather than by the Word of God in which we are to "let them" be ignorant, especially when failing to see it as running against the commandment of the Lord.

I would discern that in a church where women are not pastors or teachers that the church can come to the same judgment, if not reminded annually that they continue to follow this commandment as being from the Lord.

However, that does not negate ignoring false teachings that comes by that pastor or teacher as that would go for any male pastor or teacher as well. The elders are supposed to correct the pastors by standing up and voicing the need for clarification and why, but hardly that is a practice seen in the churches today to make sure nobody in the congregation misunderstood what the pastor had said to walk away from that congregation in error.



That has proven to be something only God can cause the increase in as I am labled as a KJV Onlyist with everything that it represents with all of its extremism when I am sharing why I rely only on the KJV to reprove all the works of darkness by it as all modern Bibles do not, but supports it because they have changed the truth in His words in all modern Bibles.

It is an argument to be avoided as I am sure they will challenge your interpretation of it all the while, they are endorsing a practice that scripture is of private interpretation when scriptures says it is not. It is too bad that the naysayers do not ask the Lord about confirming His word in the KJV, but it is better to make like sharks in the water in joining the crowd on any one that says he or she is only relying on one Bible for the meat of His words which is the KJV than to ask Him.



And there is the rub. They demand private interpretation from the Greek & Hebrew to understand His words and then turn around and judge any one that interprets it differently as being self righteous or holier than thou, and yet they are the ones adding to His words as if it was about women interrupting services with false teachings when it is plainly read that they are not permitted to speak at all in the assembly.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Since we prophesy in part and know in part, this may be why Paul "lets" men and churches "be ignorant", but God holds it against them mayhap even moreso when women teach false doctrines as a result. Only the Lord can open their eyes when men or churches refuses to see the truth about His commandment when they start teaching falsehood.

The proof of that commandment may be seen with His help in proving that the Holy Spirit would NEVER manifest tongues in women thus breaking the commandment from the Lord in the assembly. Once the Lord helps them to see that commandment, He may just lead them to discern that tongue that comes without interpretation as not from the Lord and discern how they got that tongue by the proclaimed testimony of receiving what they believe was the Holy Spirit apart from their salvation. As it is, only God can peradventure to recover them from this snare of the devil when all modern Bibles supports that kind of tongue in Romans 8:26-27 as if the Holy Spirit can use that tongue in turning it around as a prayer language and thus mimicking that supernatural tongue as found in the world ( Isaiah 8:19 ) before Pentecost had come even though it runs counter to the truth in His words in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself using His own words, but by speaking what He hears from the Father when Jesus was on earth, and now from Jesus when all power has been given unto Him at His ascension in being our Savior & Good Shepherd.

But again, only God can peradventure to do this as I lean on Him to help me not to bite & devour any one, but walk away from the discussion with His help to leave them to God.



So men and women are under this warning for all churches to hear and lean on Him as our Good Shepherd to discern by.

So you are KJV Onlyist? Some how that does not surprise me. I have not run into one in awhile, but still it does not surprise me. I do not want to turn this into a KJV ONLY debate, but have you read the Original 1611 Preface to the KJV? You put the KJV on way too high of a pedestal. The so-called Translation Team actually admitted it was not an actual Translation, but rather a Paraphrase from earlier English Versions with known errors, and a primary additional source was the Latin Translation. The Translation Team said their goal was not to make a new Translation, but rather to update antiquated older English language, and to correct known errors, however because they did not go back to translate from the oldest available original language manuscripts, therefore they still missed some of the errors. Here is an excerpt from the Original 1611 Preface, so that you can read it for yourself:

<QUOTE>

The Translators To The Reader

. . .
Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .
. . .
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? . . . so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. . .

. . .
Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the
Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .
. . .
(and Saint
Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . .
. . .
There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .
. . .
And to the same effect say wee, that we are so farre off from condemning any of their labours that traveiled before us in this kinde, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King
Henries time, or King Edwards (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation in his time) or Queene Elizabeths of ever-renoumed memorie, that we acknowledge them to have beene raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posteritie in everlasting remembrance. . . .
. . .
Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if
we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . .
. . .
to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .
. . .
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest{ poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .
. . .
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us.
{ The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .
. . .
But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us:
But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . . { That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }

http://www.kjvbibles.com/kjpreface.htm <END QUOTE>
 
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Enow

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So you are KJV Onlyist?
You did not read my reply fully then, because I am not a KJVonlyist any more than you are a Catholic even though it is a part of christianity. I was sharing why I rely only on the KJV because the meats of His words reprove all works of darkness that I have come across whereas not all modern Bibles do, and in fact all modern Bibles support false teaching of this one major apostasy which is the other baptism of the Holy Ghost that comes with evidence of tongues that never comes with interpretation.

Some how that does not surprise me. I have not run into one in awhile, but still it does not surprise me. I do not want to turn this into a KJV ONLY debate, but have you read the Original 1611 Preface to the KJV? You put the KJV on way too high of a pedestal. The so-called Translation Team actually admitted it was not an actual Translation, but rather a Paraphrase from earlier English Versions with known errors, and a primary additional source was the Latin Translation. The Translation Team said their goal was not to make a new Translation, but rather to update antiquated older English language, and to correct known errors, however because they did not go back to translate from the oldest available original language manuscripts, therefore they still missed some of the errors. Here is an excerpt from the Original 1611 Preface, so that you can read it for yourself:

<QUOTE>

The Translators To The Reader

. . .
Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .
. . .
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? . . . so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. . .

. . .
Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the
Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .
. . .
(and Saint
Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . .
. . .
There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .
. . .
And to the same effect say wee, that we are so farre off from condemning any of their labours that traveiled before us in this kinde, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King
Henries time, or King Edwards (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation in his time) or Queene Elizabeths of ever-renoumed memorie, that we acknowledge them to have beene raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posteritie in everlasting remembrance. . . .
. . .
Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if
we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . .
. . .
to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .
. . .
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest{ poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .
. . .
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us.
{ The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .
. . .
But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us:
But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . . { That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }

http://www.kjvbibles.com/kjpreface.htm <END QUOTE>
Thank you for sharing, but I am not going to read all that when I am not a KJVOnlyist and more importantly, you did not read my reply to know that.

So ask Him to confirm my basis for this belief; Does not John 16:13 in all modern Bibles tells us how the Holy Spirit will speak which supports how He will not speak? Or if you prefer.. turn to the Greek for that, but I must implore you to lean on Him for wisdom for the meaning of His words to see the truth in His words. There is a difference between praying and thinking He will do it. So pray, brother. Do pray.

Then you read Romans 8:26-27 in how the Greek word alaletos which means it cannot be uttered as His intercessions are unspeakable which means the Holy Spirit needs help in having His intercessions known to the Father in verse 26 which testifies to Another knowing the mind of the Spirit in verse 27 because He is the only Mediator between God and men. The whole point of Him being at that throne of grace is to answer our prayers so that means He gives His intercessions, our intercessions, and the Spirit's intercessions to the Father so that when the Father says "Yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers that prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Jesus is the Lamb of God at that throne of grace as to how and why we have access to the Father as it is by His blood.

It is Jesus that gives our intercessions to the Father as the Son does the same for the Spirit since the Holy Spirit has intercessions made for us but cannot give them to the Father Himself as it is to the will of God so that when the Son answers the prayers, the Father is glorified in the Son for answered prayers since it is the will of God to give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

So all modern Bibles are wrong in Romans 8:26-27 about the Holy Spirit being able to give prayers to the Father by Himself by way of babbling nonsense of tongues that can never come with interpretation when this tongue comes about by what wayward saints believe is to be the Holy Spirit coming over them again as standing apart from salvation when 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 preaches a warning against such an extra supernatural event.

Now please go back and reread the post you had replied to because I am not of the extremists of KJVOnlyism, but I am sharing why I only rely on the KJV and it is because that is the only Bible reproving the work of darkness about using tongues as a prayer language by the Holy Spirit when all modern Bibles of John 16:13 says the Holy Spirit cannot do that.
 

Enow

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Dec 21, 2012
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Incidentally, this forum is not a fellowship, but an outreach when every one is not speaking the same thing nor having the same judgment, and so women are allowed to post in this forum to teach or to share as we all should lean on Him to discern and prove everything by Him in what is being posted in this forum.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Brethren, pray for us.

We should all pray normally for everyone on this forum when we come here that God is peradventuring to minister to each other in the knowledge of Him to grow and mature in our walk with Him to bear more fruits.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Proverbs 27:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;[SUP]7 [/SUP]Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;[SUP]8 [/SUP]Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;[SUP]11 [/SUP]Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;[SUP]12 [/SUP]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;[SUP]13 [/SUP]Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.[SUP]18 [/SUP]If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

This probably should be the rules for any forum even though new believers join in everyday to post freely to make that an unobtainable goal which is why it should be treated as an outreach ministry and why we should pray for one another.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I know what this thread is about... Woman pastors should not exist.. No woman should be in a position of authority over a man..
If some of you folks would read your bibles, it teaches nobody has any authority over anyone, so the whole argument is moot.

ALL of the known writers of the epistles states they are God's servants. The only real authority is of & from God.
Plus, in the verses used, the context is ignored to twist this doctrine into effect.

Which brings me to this question..... Will you ignore God's word to cuddle & cradle your false doctrine?

Men, are you so immature you can't handle women ministers? Prophets? Teachers?

Do you realize you've thrown out Joel's prophecy that was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost in Acts?
 
S

StanJ

Guest
I know what this thread is about... Woman pastors should not exist.. No woman should be in a position of authority over a man..
Then please take the time to read all the positions so I don't have to continually repeat myself.
 
S

StanJ

Guest
Incidentally, this forum is not a fellowship, but an outreach when every one is not speaking the same thing nor having the same judgment, and so women are allowed to post in this forum to teach or to share as we all should lean on Him to discern and prove everything by Him in what is being posted in this forum.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Brethren, pray for us.

We should all pray normally for everyone on this forum when we come here that God is peradventuring to minister to each other in the knowledge of Him to grow and mature in our walk with Him to bear more fruits.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Proverbs 27:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;[SUP]7 [/SUP]Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;[SUP]8 [/SUP]Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;[SUP]11 [/SUP]Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;[SUP]12 [/SUP]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;[SUP]13 [/SUP]Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.[SUP]18 [/SUP]If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

This probably should be the rules for any forum even though new believers join in everyday to post freely to make that an unobtainable goal which is why it should be treated as an outreach ministry and why we should pray for one another.
Well just like you misinterpret the Bible and get it wrong you do the same thing with the purpose of this forum.
Despite what you think it should be in actuality it is a place of Fellowship and secondarily it can minister to the unsaved but that's on its main purpose.
As far as proving all things is concerned that only happens to people that are open to a different perspective of the word of God and when they are showing the truth they accept it period that does not work with the inculcated.
It can also only happen to those who have actually receive the baptism of Holy Spirit because it is the Holy Spirit's job to make God's word real and understandable in our lives.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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Hey, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck.... IT'S A DUCK!
So all christians are Catholics? No? Then not every believer that relies only on the KJV is a KJVOnlyist.

When I say everything that is extreme about KJVOnlyist and thus declare myself as a KJVOnlyist, then that is quacking like a duck and being that duck.

But if you want to slander me... than you do so as not walking in the Spirit, brother. You need to repent.
 
S

StanJ

Guest
So all christians are Catholics? No? Then not every believer that relies only on the KJV is a KJVOnlyist.
When I say everything that is extreme about KJVOnlyist and thus declare myself as a KJVOnlyist, then that is quacking like a duck and being that duck.
But if you want to slander me... than you do so as not walking in the Spirit, brother. You need to repent.
I quoted you very specifically and said nothing about Catholics being Christians or vice versa. Everything you say comes from the KJV only handbook so it doesn't matter what you claim your words are evidence against you.
If you insist on relying on the KJV to the exclusion of every other English translation in the world then you're KJVO. If you refuse to accept evidence that shows the KJV is inferior and full of errors then you are KJVO.
If you actually believe that God inspired the writers of the KJV in addition to the Hebrew and Greek writers who originally wrote the scriptures then you are KJVO. Peter said he would never deny Jesus and yet very shortly thereafter he did. Actions speak much louder than words. Your words clearly indicate you are inculcated in the KJVO cult.
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
It appears that some on here, have gotten off topic.