AMERICAN HEALTH CARE ACT

[maxwel]

This hasn't been about me and Ricky disagreeing on labor relations.

It's about Ricky's Marxist ideology... an ideology that is atheistic, and has killed over 100 million people.




The point is:

1. Simple capitalist principals... like private property, and therefore private enterprise, are biblical.

2. Marxist principles are NOT BIBLICAL... they're entirely evil... and Marxism has killed 100 million people in the last 100 years.

3. No economic system is perfect: anyone, under any system, can sin.

4. But capitalist principles are biblical, and marxist principles are not.

5. When Ricky talks about how employees are treated... it isn't about "fairness"... it's about Ricky being a Marxist... he believes in Marxist ideology... that is the problem we're having in this thread.

6. Marxism comes from atheism: it's primary tenet is that there is no God, and that we can have a utopian existence on earth if we just TAKE EVERYONE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY, EVERYTHING, (killing anyone who gets in the way), and redistribute it, and end all religion... because religion is in disagreement with a Marxist utopia.



* Ricky and I aren't talking about employees and employers... we're talking about his Marxist beliefs... which color everything that comes our of his mouth.

* Marxism is atheistic, is based in atheism, and it killed over 100 million people.

* I'm not about to apologize to anyone for saying I'm against Marxism.

 

[Naboth]

Wait a tick, where did Ricky say he is a Marxist?

 

[Sirk]

Do marxists ever say....hey I'm a marxist! Lol

Marxist ideology says that the wealth of the wealthy should be taken away and distributed amongst the working man. Just like Ricky is saying in this thread. Unless of course you are the ruling class..then you get to keep your wealth. Lol.

I have a small business. I do not currently have any employees. I prefer to work by myself because they are expensive and good ones who don't wine and complain are hard to find! Lol. When I did, I paid them according to their value as employees. They got raises and bonuses if they did their job well. If they didn't....well then they didn't. If I had callbacks and stuff not getting done right I didn't reward bad behavior. They had health insurance and paid vacation and work vehicles to drive home at night. My experience was that the more you gave the more they complained. All it takes is one toxic one to ruin the whole vibe.

I've seen guys who were the worst employees in the land and want you to give them the farm, go out on their own and become the worst scrooges in the land! Ricky is talking out his hind end. Employers have the right in a free society to pay people what they want and people have the right to get a different job if they don't like the one they have. Plain and simple. I might hire again because I'm getting pretty busy.....but....if it gets anymore difficult and expensive I won't hire anyone. And sadly, someone could make 50 grand a year or more working for me. Whats that they say about a gift horse again?

 

[Miri]

All you men are really emotional ya know,
i thought it was the women who suffered from PMT.

 

[Depleted]

I'd be happy for one major change that goes into effect immediately -- stop demanding people get healthcare, and stop fine people if they don't.

I also like the idea of being able to buy healthcare across state lines. I live in Philadelphia. Most insurance companies have pulled out of Philly, because Philadelphians tend to cost them, instead of providing a profit. I get this. Poor folks tend to not be able to afford healthcare often, so when they get it, they use it. And since they haven't been getting regular checkups and staying on top of their health, it is more likely something big is terribly wrong. Living in a city, means there are big sections of poor people. It gets costly. Sooo, if I can buy my insurance out of Delaware, less poor people there, because no truly major cities with dense population of poor people, making the overall population of policyholders a broader segment. (Say 1 in 4 people in the city are poor. Outside the city it's more like 1 in 8 then. That means twice as many people keep on top of their health, which means they are more likely to deal with problems before it gets bad, giving the company profit. 7 people giving them profit, instead of only 3. Then they can afford the ones who won't.)

Now, if I get my big dream from Congress, it would be that Congress includes medical expenses for their statistics when deciding if people on Social Security get a COL pay raise. Do that, and people on SS can afford medigap insurance taking the load off them and government for healthcare needs. Seems logical to me since people on SS come in two forms: disabled or retired. Retired means "older," so the older we get, the more healthcare we'll need.

Then I'm also for raising the age for retirement based on the same thing they did when they started SS. Back then, they made retirement age 65 because they knew life expectancy was 56. What they didn't think out was life expectancy keeps rising. Last I checked, it was 76. So make SS for people when they hit 80. Sound harsh? Not if you're 55 and know you're not getting jobs easily because a company knows you'll be retiring shortly.

As for those who were already promised SS when retiring? Have the changes be set by decade. Anyone under 36 should know if they want to retire earlier, it's on them. Incremental changes based on ages above that amount. For instance anyone 55 and older should expect the new retirement age to be 70 now. 36-55, should expect it at 75. 35 and under should know it's 80.

Social Security used to be many people's retirement plan. Now very few could afford to live on just that. (Doubly so, if married, because when a spouse dies while you're on SS, the living spouse only gets the higher of the two SS checks.) I do think SS is a requirement by the government by now, but as life expectancy increases, so should retirement age increase. Healthcare and SS are connected.

I know what I'd like the government to do. Unfortunately, the only thing Congress really wants to do is get reelected, so even the Reps are wussing out on truly making changes. As it stands now, this new bill doesn't go into effect in three year. OR it doesn't go into effect until the next election cycle, so it too will be gutted when the Dems return to power.

Pass what they have now, and all they're doing is looking good, instead of doing any good. Isn't that the mentality that gave us a different party in power? Did we really get a different party in power?

 

[Depleted]

Common sense should tell any of us that NOTHING is going to provide affordable healthcare for everyone. That is an impossibility, short of going to total Socialism.

So the aim SHOULD be to do no more than simply offer a means to secure something better than individuals have now.... at competitive prices.

Actually, the real problem is 2% of Americans fall through the cracks, (before Obamacare and after.) They're too rich for Medicaid or Medicare, and too poor to afford health insurance at all. The rest of the uninsured did so as a gamble, and a fairly safe gamble. They're young and working, so can afford doctor visits, and are healthy so are betting nothing serious goes wrong.

How about we cover the 2%ers too? Sort of CHIP for adults.

 

[Depleted]

Just tossing an idea out.
Would it work to bring in laws that evey employer has to fund medical insurance,
no matter what the job is, i.e. street sweeper right up to brain surgeon.

Just wondering as other here for the last couple of years, the UK government is trying
out something new with pensions. Whereby every employee and employer has to pay into
the employee pension pot. Even nannys and cleaners where there is a private arrangement,
right through to the big multi corporations.

The effects of this have yet to be known. My employer the government has a
pension scheme contract for staff already in place before the new laws, so I don't know how
the new different scheme will work out for others long term in their employment.

Maybe a similar scheme for health care would work in the US with employee and employer
contributions.

So, if I get the kid down the street to clean up my garden, I have to pay his health insurance? Or, I was a small business, and was considering hiring someone for 10 hours a week. Pay that person's insurance? I also see the Big Mac doubling in price.

 

[Depleted]

You start a company. You hire workers to produce corporate income. Those workers have no right to a share of the income they produce for you. You have a right to all of the fruit of their labor. Even tho without their labor you would have no income.

Yeppers. You've read too much Ronald Reagan.

Like I said, people will fight to the death - and these days it's often a literal death - for their right to treat and be treated like slaves.

"Those workers" are hired. That means they are compensated for their work. They get paid -- their money. I do not expect them to give me their money. I do not expect them to get my money. This is called "capitalism."

"Slaves" is when you get no money for your work. (At least that's what it is in this millennium.)

 

[Depleted]

It astounds me how far satan has sown greed into the deepest parts of even the elect.

Yup, all the way up to you think you deserve part of a company just because you work for it.

 

[Depleted]

Actually I raised the bar on work ethic for my employer. Really pissed off the lazy and unfruitful that surrounded me.

Employer? Not co-owner? Interesting.

 

[Depleted]

No. Ricky grieves because believers deny what God says about riches and treating workers fairly.

"Workers." Not "co-owners." Again, interesting.

 

[Depleted]

Since I'm always worrying about stuff and I just heard about this from a friend, I fear it may affect my disability checks which is provided by the state. Which is a separate thing I know. But the worst part is I heard that it doesn't cover generic medicine only name brand big pharma stuff. I can't afford that. I need the meds so I don't die from horrible lung problems. I also here it doesn't cover cancer and mental health. What kind of sick person would propose such a bill?

None. You hear media spin.

BTW, if you want generic meds at good prices, Walmart, Walgreen, and a few other pharmacies have good deals. I specifically have medigap insurance to afford prescriptions.

 

[Depleted]

Because I'm the only one here who believes that if an employee puts in an honest days work and helps make his company a profit, then that employee should be treated as a valuable asset and rewarded some of that profit in the form of a living wage, instead being treated as a worthless slave like the rest of you money hoarders do.

That's it. I'm done with this thread, and most likely this site. Far too many unchristian chatters here.

Basic business breakdown:
1/3rd of income goes to overhead/assets.
1/3rd goes to marketing.
1/3rd goes to growing the business (and giving the owner income.)

Workers are "overhead/asset." It is a wage, truly. They are paid because they earned it. They are not owners.

(Basic Business 101.)

 

[Depleted]

I think this went too far out of hand and I believe everyone who has participated is responsible for the behavior that has been displayed and I am embarrassed because people look around and expect to see how Christians communicate and this is what they see?

Now, I can see both sides of the equation here. Owners of a business should be the only ones who should have any say in how to allocate their funds unless they have stockholders who help with that and in no way is an employee to have any say about investments or the like. However, management needs to show how valuable their employees are to them and the company because they will find something that will scratch their itch of being appreciated. If this happens not only do they have to hire someone else, but they lose time and money. Yes, they could hire someone who has done this job before for lets say 30 years, but there is still training that takes place and that costs time and money to do and it creates a low morale that any business owner should not be proud of. I came from a business that thought everyone can be replaced, mistreated, unappreciated, and so much more. I got tired of it and so did many other people. Last year alone more than 150 employees quit and there have been some positions that have laid empty for months because no one wants to work for them. If you were a business owner would you want people to say this about you? Employees need to feel like they hold value to companies or be an asset to them and there is no monetary value that can pay them enough for that....and that is what people really want to find

As an employee, the two things that taught me I was valued were my paycheck and enough trust to let me do my work without being micromanaged. Truly, don't reward my effort with enough money, and I will find the employer who will.

 

[Naboth]

Do marxists ever say....hey I'm a marxist! Lol

Marxist ideology says that the wealth of the wealthy should be taken away and distributed amongst the working man. Just like Ricky is saying in this thread. Unless of course you are the ruling class..then you get to keep your wealth. Lol.

I have a small business. I do not currently have any employees. I prefer to work by myself because they are expensive and good ones who don't wine and complain are hard to find! Lol. When I did, I paid them according to their value as employees. They got raises and bonuses if they did their job well. If they didn't....well then they didn't. If I had callbacks and stuff not getting done right I didn't reward bad behavior. They had health insurance and paid vacation and work vehicles to drive home at night. My experience was that the more you gave the more they complained. All it takes is one toxic one to ruin the whole vibe.

I've seen guys who were the worst employees in the land and want you to give them the farm, go out on their own and become the worst scrooges in the land! Ricky is talking out his hind end. Employers have the right in a free society to pay people what they want and people have the right to get a different job if they don't like the one they have. Plain and simple. I might hire again because I'm getting pretty busy.....but....if it gets anymore difficult and expensive I won't hire anyone. And sadly, someone could make 50 grand a year or more working for me. Whats that they say about a gift horse again?

Lol well I don't see many Marxists that appeal to the Bible either. As Maxwel said Marxism is atheism, so I would think one would be a pretty poor Marxist to try to found their point of view in the Bible rather than the Communist Manifesto.

I don't think Ricky is saying the wealth of the wealthy should be taken from them, just that the employees should be treated well. Nothing wrong with enfranchising your employees into your franchise, nor is it communistic. If one were actually a Marxist there'd be no company, all of your bases are belong to the State.

As for your particular company, dang 50k a year, health benefits, cars, and vacations sounds like a pretty good deal to me. If I didn't relish my freedom so much I would be tempted to become your bondman. Sounds like you would be trying to enfranchise your employees into your company by giving them such a high wage, control over company assets (vehicles), and giving them perks. Which seems to me exactly Ricky's point, so I don't really see what the beef is.

 

[p_rehbein]

The Fortune 500 Corporations are Marxist.

I know this because they pay their employees very good wages. Give them very nice benefits packages, as well as matching 401-K savings accounts, and stock options. Clearly, this sinful sharing of Corporation profits with employees is Marxist and MUST be stamped out!

Loads of Small Businesses around the Nation are Marxist.

I know this because they pay their employees good wages. They give them Vacation Days/Sick Days, and, if at all possible, Medical Benefits. And, curses of curses, if the employees are loyal and hard working, they give them pay raises.......and, the worst act of all.......they give them Christmas Bonuses. Surely they are horrible Marxist and MUST be destroyed! How dare them reward their employees for loyalty and hard work, and do so by sharing in their Profits.


ALL UNIONS are Marxist.

I know this because.........well, shoot, because they are. And all of their Members are but pawns in their Marxist activities.


So, don't worry Ricky.............it appears you and your Marxist ideologies are in pretty good company right here in the good old US of A.

 

[Sirk]

Lol well I don't see many Marxists that appeal to the Bible either. As Maxwel said Marxism is atheism, so I would think one would be a pretty poor Marxist to try to found their point of view in the Bible rather than the Communist Manifesto.

I don't think Ricky is saying the wealth of the wealthy should be taken from them, just that the employees should be treated well. Nothing wrong with enfranchising your employees into your franchise, nor is it communistic. If one were actually a Marxist there'd be no company, all of your bases are belong to the State.

As for your particular company, dang 50k a year, health benefits, cars, and vacations sounds like a pretty good deal to me. If I didn't relish my freedom so much I would be tempted to become your bondman. Sounds like you would be trying to enfranchise your employees into your company by giving them such a high wage, control over company assets (vehicles), and giving them perks. Which seems to me exactly Ricky's point, so I don't really see what the beef is.

ricky said a couple of things like, and I'm paraphrasing, why am I the only one here is who does what the Bible says? I took issue with that. Like I said, he was talking out of his hind end. The vast majority of corporations in the US are small business's like mine. To say that we are all greedy "money hoarders" as he put it, is a little offensive. At least to me. I'm about as generous of a person as it gets.

An entitlement attitude ain't a virtuous one.

 

[Susanna]

I'm exhausted, I've been spending the night getting an earful from a "small business owner", among a lot other nice graveyard shift events. Some business owners think we are their little shops dedicated security unit...meh...

 

[Sirk]

I'm exhausted, I've been spending the night getting an earful from a "small business owner", among a lot other nice graveyard shift events. Some business owners think we are their little shops dedicated security unit...meh...

What happened? Was it a burglary or something?

 

[Susanna]

What happened? Was it a burglary or something?

Lol, no, it was an "eat" and run.