forgive future sin? Matt 18: 21,

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,427
6,657
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#61
And the problem arises when folks do not understand this Scripture. Jesus IS NOT speaking of "future transgressions." He IS SPEAKING of when one sins against another..........THAT IS WHEN they are to be forgiven.

Who in the world forgives someone of something that HAS NEVER OCCURRED? That's just silly. EVEN GOD did not do that! Until a sinner repents and asks for forgiveness, GOD DOES NOT FORGIVE HIS SINS.

People here who do not understand this Scripture have not thought it through, that's all.



Consider the time Jesus says to forgive 70 x7 or whatever. Forgive beyond what is possible to do.
The message is to be perfect as God is perfect. Jesus said similar things many many times before the cross and new covenant.
Being perfect is something we cannot do, we are dead under the law. Our only choice it to turn to Jesus where we can be covered by grace in the new covenant.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,427
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#62
God put in place the path to eternal life through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ PAID THE PRICE for all sins for all mankind for all time.........PAID THE PRICE.

HOWEVER, that does not EQUATE to all sins being forgiven of all men for all time. It simply means the SACRIFICE for the payment of sins HAS BEEN PAID ONCE FOR ALL TIME.

If man DOES NOT repent and ask for forgiveness.............HIS SINS ARE NOT FORGIVEN. He will die in his sins and be lost for all eternity.

The sins of man WILL ALWAYS BE AN ISSUE between God and man...............sin SEPARATES man from the Grace of God. Do people honestly believe God WILL ABIDE in sin?

goodness

Isn't that what James 5 deals with? God settled the sin issue between us and Him 2000 years ago. The issue now is between us and others. If you have wronged another, go to them and as much as it depends on you, make it right.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,427
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#63
Are you saying we DO NOT NEED to ask God to forgive us when we sin against Him? Seriously?

There are gonna be a whole lotta surprised and confused folks come the day of Atonement...........and that is a sad thing.

This disputation seems to be because we have Saved believers and Saved/Sanctified believers. The Saved believers have not yet received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and received the understanding of Scripture He imparts to all who trust in Him for their understanding.

It's the only thing that makes sense when I see this argument being discussed.

We all need to repent, all the time. But why ask God for what you already have?
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#64
I'll ask you the same question I asked another, why ask God for what you already have?
So if I punched you in the face, even if you turn the other cheek, would you not have sought my asking for forgiveness in seeking my good in the Lord to pray for me?

Matthew 5:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;[SUP]24 [/SUP]Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Or what happens if I had gone astray...... if I am forgiven anyway, why would Jesus lead you to do this?

Matthew 18:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP]12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP]13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Tell me how any church can excommunicate any unrepentant brother if we are to forgive him in this regard? There would be no excommunication nor any need for repentance if forgiveness can be given without repentance. We are not talking about salvation. We are talking about proper fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Can you forgive your wife stepping out in committing adultery, since you are forgiving her future sins? So this is not about salvation, but maintaining proper fellowship. God will forgive when believers repent from chasing after seducing spirits for a sign so as to receive them as vessels unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes.

There are too many verses warning believers of not departing from iniquity that they run the risk of being left behind even though they are still saved; and thus still having His seal to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So believers have not received their inheritance as a vessel unto honor in His House yet. That is why there is a race; not only for the rewards of crowns as they are His crowning achievements in us, but to avoid the consequence of being a castaway, and thus becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not looking to Him for help to depart from iniquity.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#65
Who in the world forgives someone of something that HAS NEVER OCCURRED?
Not never occurred. That had occurred and that had yet to occur. And yes that is exactly what Jesus did.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#66
God put in place the path to eternal life through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ PAID THE PRICE for all sins for all mankind for all time.........PAID THE PRICE.

HOWEVER, that does not EQUATE to all sins being forgiven of all men for all time. It simply means the SACRIFICE for the payment of sins HAS BEEN PAID ONCE FOR ALL TIME.

If man DOES NOT repent and ask for forgiveness.............HIS SINS ARE NOT FORGIVEN. He will die in his sins and be lost for all eternity.

The sins of man WILL ALWAYS BE AN ISSUE between God and man...............sin SEPARATES man from the Grace of God. Do people honestly believe God WILL ABIDE in sin?

goodness

Acts 10:43
"All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#67
So if I punched you in the face, even if you turn the other cheek, would you not have sought my asking for forgiveness in seeking my good in the Lord to pray for me?

Matthew 5:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;[SUP]24 [/SUP]Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Or what happens if I had gone astray...... if I am forgiven anyway, why would Jesus lead you to do this?

Matthew 18:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP]12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP]13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Tell me how any church can excommunicate any unrepentant brother if we are to forgive him in this regard? There would be no excommunication nor any need for repentance if forgiveness can be given without repentance. We are not talking about salvation. We are talking about proper fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Can you forgive your wife stepping out in committing adultery, since you are forgiving her future sins? So this is not about salvation, but maintaining proper fellowship. God will forgive when believers repent from chasing after seducing spirits for a sign so as to receive them as vessels unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes.

There are too many verses warning believers of not departing from iniquity that they run the risk of being left behind even though they are still saved; and thus still having His seal to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So believers have not received their inheritance as a vessel unto honor in His House yet. That is why there is a race; not only for the rewards of crowns as they are His crowning achievements in us, but to avoid the consequence of being a castaway, and thus becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not looking to Him for help to depart from iniquity.
I ask again, why would you ask God for what you already have?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#68
Are you saying we DO NOT NEED to ask God to forgive us when we sin against Him? Seriously?

There are gonna be a whole lotta surprised and confused folks come the day of Atonement...........and that is a sad thing.

This disputation seems to be because we have Saved believers and Saved/Sanctified believers. The Saved believers have not yet received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and received the understanding of Scripture He imparts to all who trust in Him for their understanding.

It's the only thing that makes sense when I see this argument being discussed.
Why would you ask God for what you already have??
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69


No, this is incorrect. If we read with more context it becomes a little more clear. You're not automatically forgiven. Steps are taken first. The person must acknowledge their sin and ask for forgiveness.

.

And here's an example of someone pleading for forgiveness and the one offended doesn't forgive. Not a pretty sight.



When the person comes and asks for forgiveness, we must forgive just as Jesus forgives us when we go before Him and ask for forgiveness, confessing our sin. You're not cleansed of unrighteousness until you do confess.


I disagree.

If he confesses, I won my brother.. But if He does notl I still forgive him. Otherwise, He musty EARN my forgiveness..

That's exactly what satan wants us to think about God in my view.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#70

Amen, and only the cross. This is John the apostle speaking after the cross. Shall I rip John's teaching from the scriptures? And shall I rip our Lord's own words as well?

So John did not teach about the cross?? And Jesus did not??
 
Mar 7, 2016
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#71
this is not a doctrin this is a reality... if you know what your future sin will be then thats premeditated.. A BIT LIKE MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE,,....

iF YOU DONT KNOW KNOW WHAT YOUR FUTURE SINS WILL BE,,,, then why not im sure they could be forgiven..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
And the problem arises when folks do not understand this Scripture. Jesus IS NOT speaking of "future transgressions." He IS SPEAKING of when one sins against another..........THAT IS WHEN they are to be forgiven.

Who in the world forgives someone of something that HAS NEVER OCCURRED? That's just silly. EVEN GOD did not do that! Until a sinner repents and asks for forgiveness, GOD DOES NOT FORGIVE HIS SINS.

People here who do not understand this Scripture have not thought it through, that's all.
Oh so we are wrong because we do not understand? I get so sick of this arrogant nonsense, which does nothing at all to help us discuss the word.

What nonsense. that is supposed to change our minds?

Jesus said forgive your brother 70 X 7. He spoke of future sin, He did not say he was only to forgive him if he asked forgiveness..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
I think elect.. I think foreknowledge, I think predestined comes to mind.

We were forgiven BEFORE time began, NOT when we confessed and repented. We were saved when we freely received the grace gift of god. but all that we did was do what God already KNEW we were going to do..

Jesus said we were given to him.. Not that we would or may be given.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,427
6,657
113
#74
Your own statement reveals you do not understand. I get so tired of the arrogant nonsense of the OSAS'ers.

Jesus WAS SAYING when a neighbor offends us, we are to forgive him. NOT go to him and say, Hey dude, I forgive you now for whatever you do to me or my family 19 years from now! So don't worry dude, it's all good.

The next week the guy breaks into this persons home, murders his son, rapes and murders his wife, and, on the way out the door, looks at the guy and says, Hey, thanks for forgiving me of this............it's all good, right?

A sin NOT COMMITTED is NOT IN NEED of forgiveness! Why is that so hard to understand?

Denominational foolishness is going to cause a whole bunch of people to stumble

Oh so we are wrong because we do not understand? I get so sick of this arrogant nonsense, which does nothing at all to help us discuss the word.

What nonsense. that is supposed to change our minds?

Jesus said forgive your brother 70 X 7. He spoke of future sin, He did not say he was only to forgive him if he asked forgiveness..
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
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#75
Well i think that the statement who in this world just paints a perfect picture of ones self..

I mean really theres no one in this world that would forgive there childrens future sins like father and son or mother and father who know fine well there children will miss behave again... i mean get real :rolleyes:
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
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#76
You mean this John?

1 John 2:12 - "I am writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of His name."



Past tense, your past sins HAVE. BEEN forgiven. Otherwise it's doubletalk and we know that can't be.

He wouldn't have talked about confessing your sin for cleansing in chapter 1, only to constadict himself in chapter 2. We need to take all the counsel of God and not isolated scriptures.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
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#77
We will be in pretty sad shape if God expected us to ask for forgiveness for sins we didn't even know we committed......
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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#78
I ask again, why would you ask God for what you already have?
You are not asking the question rightly when you apply having obtained salvation as having no necessity for asking for forgiveness of sins in maintaining your fellowship with the Father & the Son presently.

You use your salvation as a basis for not needing to ask for forgiveness for sinning when scripture obviously proves you are not applying His words rightly when Jesus had taught us to pray that way.

You are not discussing this at all when scripture has proven you wrong for thinking that way. You are arguing with Jesus & His words. Not mine. Since you wish to be obtuse in regards to His words, I shall discontinue this discussion with you.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#79

Past tense, your past sins HAVE. BEEN forgiven. Otherwise it's doubletalk and we know that can't be.

He wouldn't have talked about confessing your sin for cleansing in chapter 1, only to constadict himself in chapter 2. We need to take all the counsel of God and not isolated scriptures.

Yes, past tense. Which, unless you are presently sinning, is exactly where all of your sins are. Just as all of your sins were all in the future when Jesus shed His blood on that cross for your forgiveness.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#80
You are not asking the question rightly when you apply having obtained salvation as having no necessity for asking for forgiveness of sins in maintaining your fellowship with the Father & the Son presently.

You use your salvation as a basis for not needing to ask for forgiveness for sinning when scripture obviously proves you are not applying His words rightly when Jesus had taught us to pray that way.

You are not discussing this at all when scripture has proven you wrong for thinking that way. You are arguing with Jesus & His words. Not mine. Since you wish to be obtuse in regards to His words, I shall discontinue this discussion with you.
I use Scripture as my basis. Here, study them well. Acts 10:43, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Colossians 1:14, Colossians 2:13, Colossians 3:13, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 4:32, 1 John 2:12, Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17.