Death or Not Death

Desertsrose · Mar 17, 2017

Hell is used in place of four different words, maybe five: Hades, Gehenna, Sheol, Tartaros.

THE word "hell" occurs in our common version 54 times, 31 in the Old Testament and 23 in the New. It is a translation of 4 different words in the original, one (Sheol) in the Old, and three (Hades, Gehenna, Tartaros) in the New.

The last, Tartaros, occurs but once (2 Pet. 2:4).

Gehenna appears 12 times, it is always translated "hell," and it is always connected with burning and corruption.

Sheol and Hades, the other two, are synonymous terms, as will be demonstrated, and altogether occur 76 times. 41 times they are translated hell, 32 times grave, and 3 times pit.

While Sheol, Hades and Tartaros refer to the same place or state, Gehenna is entirely different in meaning.

************************************

SHEOL is a term for the place of the dead in general, and for this reason "hell" in its original and uncorrupted meaning is a better word for sheol than "grave" is.

"Grave" primarily means the specific place of a particular corpse or corpses. The Hebrew for this is geber, as --

"My grave (geber) which I digged for me" (Gen. 50:5).
"The king wept at the grave (geber) of Abner" (2 Sam. 3:32).

On the other hand, sheol in the Hebrew and "hell" in its primary meaning are general terms as (Psa. 6:5) --

"In the grave (sheol) who shall give Thee thanks?"
"Hell (sheol) and destruction are never full" (Prov. 27:20).

However, while "grave" used as a general term will well fit all passages where sheol occurs, "hell" in the popular sense would be absurd in some places and would immediately reveal the popular error. For example, where Jacob says (Gen. 37:35) --

"I will go down into sheol unto my son mourning."

And where Job says (14:13) --

"O that Thou wouldest hide me in sheol."

It is not to be supposed that either Jacob or Job anticipated or hoped to go to eternal torment.

In all the 65 places where sheol is found, there is not one that gives any countenance to the idea of a place of burning torment of the damned. It is always in the sense of the general hidden state of the dead -- all the dead -- good and bad alike.

And not only is sheol used as the resting place of all the dead indiscriminately, but we have specific mention of righteousness and approved men going there and expecting to go there.

We have seen this of Jacob and Job. Also David (Psa. 88:3), Hezekiah (Isa. 38:10), Christ (Psa. 16:10; Acts 2:31; 3:15), and all the faithful (compare Hos. 13:14 with 1 Cor. 15:54-56).

Sheol is a place of silence --

"Let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in Sheol" (Psa. 31:17).

"The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psa. 115:17).

There is no remembrance there (Psa. 6:5) --

"In death there is no remembrance of Thee, in Sheol who shall give Thee thanks?"

Sheol is "in the dust" and there we "rest together" "in darkness" (Job 17:13-16). Beauty is consumed there (Psa. 49:14). There is no work or knowledge there --

"There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol whither thou goest" (Ecc. 9:10).

It is dark there, and is called the "land of forgetfulness," and "destruction" --

"Wilt Thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise Thee?"

"Shall Thy loving kindness be declared in Sheol? Or Thy faithfulness in destruction?"

"Shall Thy wonders be known in the dark? And Thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?" (Psa. 88:10-12).

The "mighty" are spoken of as lying there with "their swords under their heads" (Eze. 32:27). This is a clear reference to the ancient custom of burying warriors in their graves with their weapons of war, but quite at variance with the traditional hell of torment.

*Have to spread the rep around*

Hi Magenta, If you have resources, I'd love to read more about this.

Also a couple of questions.

What about the parable with Abraham's bosom and Lazarus ?
Also, I've been taught it will be a new heaven and a new earth. Why do you believe it will be a restored earth? Thanks!

Magenta · Mar 18, 2017

Desertsrose said:

My apologies for the delay, our lovely Desert Rose... first I was on the phone with my daughter for an hour, and then another thread on Hell popped up haha

My apologies also for not including the source link in every post; I did get it in most

http://www.bereanchristadelphian.com/FirstPrn/hell.htm

Abraham's bosom is covered in this post ~> #28

Magenta · Mar 18, 2017

Each number is a clickable link to that specific post

Forever is not meant to be taken to mean without end ~> #6

Using proper language for heaven and hell ~> #7

John 3:16 perish meaning ~> #11

Hell is used in place of four different words (1) Sheol ~> #13 and #14

Death does not encompass consciousness ~> #19

Death is the punishment of sin ~> #20

Hell is used in place of four different words (2) Hades ~> #21

Hell is used in place of four different words (3) Gehenna ~> #22

Hell is used in place of four different words (4) Tartaros #23

The second death the end of the unsaved ~> #27

Inconceivable opposition to God's Word ~> #29

Scriptures attesting that death is the final everlasting punishment ~> #38

trofimus · Mar 18, 2017

buddyt said:

In my understanding of God, life vs death choice etc, my personal opinion is that hell will mean a complete destruction of the unbelievers.

On the other hand, some verses in the Bible seem to indicate torment without end and also theologically there is no problem with that. So it is surely a possible thing.

buddyt · Mar 18, 2017

I like TMs reply # 2
I cant see God a compassionate loving just God Creating man and giving us free will. Only to say do it my way or I'm going to torment you forever. No Heaven is a place without a tear a happy place . Think of you Sister Brother who ever and having to see him her burning in torment forever. It wouldn't be a happy place for me if that were the case. The bible tells us in different verses the dead will rise. Like there out there in the ground. When we know there with the Father. So don't take the eternity thing to literally. To be without God IS torment DEAD or ALIVE.

OneFaith · Mar 18, 2017

buddyt said:

Death of the soul does not mean they don't exist anymore- it means they are separated from God, and will be tormented forever (Hell). When God says He is the God of the living and not the dead- He means spiritually, not physically.

garee · Mar 18, 2017

Magenta said:

I would agree it can mean two things.One, as long as the the Sun and Moon the time keepers God has set in the sky stay in there course and two forever more after.

It would be like death in respect to the second death (body, spirit and soul) which does apply to those who have been born again, they will not experience the second death which is .....to never arise to new spirit life . the Spirit is the life which gives life to a soul that had no life before.

If there is to be suffering it again has to relate to a spirit life never coming to new spirit life ever again .The second death is not something we can experience un-like the tribulations of this life (hell) which we can . Jonas is used to show the kind of eternal suffering the Spirit of Christ undertook. God is Spirit he cannot die he offered his suffering called the "heart of the earth" as the "belly of the hell".

Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice

No hearing voice when a person is dead.

garee · Mar 18, 2017

OneFaith said:

He means totally gone up in smoke. Ashes cannot suffer . In this case it both spirit and flesh.

When Adam and Eve's soul died in their new corruptible spirit which was now separate from the giver of Spirit life, having a life separate from God's Spirit, they a had a corrupted temporal life shown by the fact it ages leading toward death, never to rise to new spirit life forever more.

In Psalms it is figured as approx 70 and number used in parables that means complete or whole

Psalms 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Issachar92 · Mar 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Nice philosophy, the only problem is that the bible does not support the idea that human souls are immortal, its absolute hogwash and its a sad state of affairs when our theology lines up more with modern day muslims than Jews who have NEVER believed in the immortal soul, the same Jews who gave us the scriptures to begin with, take a look at the history of this doctrine and where it originated from.

PrynceNY · Mar 18, 2017

There's no such thing as ceasing to exist or annihilation, seems like a hard thing for some people to accept.

Magenta · Mar 18, 2017

Issachar92 said:

Yes, it is sad that Christians do not accept what Scripture plainly teaches... they throw over a multitude of Scriptures that plainly state that death is the end result of sin, and utter destruction of body and soul via the second death is the fate of those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life. They throw the multitude of Scripture over in favor of one parable, which they make up all kinds of others things out of, such as saying it cannot be a parable since real people are named in it (gee, I wonder who made up that phony rule and when it came into existence?), combined with a few verses at most from the highly symbolic book of Revelation. Explicit Scriptures naming death as the end result are stacked close to fifty to one AGAINST the popular view. Why has it become so popular when it flies against so many other Scriptures, not to mention the very nature of God? They promote the lie of Satan at the heart of the very fall of all creation.

Magenta · Mar 18, 2017

PrynceNY said:

How did you come to this conclusion? Can you give explicit Scriptures to support this view? I can give explicit Scriptures that plainly and unequivocally support my view. Here are a few of them:

There are many many many Scriptures that attest to the fact that death is the final everlasting punishment for the person who refuses to accept the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ as a covering for their sin.

The lost perish and are no more.

Strong's concordance word 622 Perish

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad
that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but
rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which
means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those
in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all"
(not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29)
"destroyed them" (not tortured).

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.

John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has
eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift
of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him,
for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Please, note again: Destroy, not torture alive forever.

Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption
(phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish. The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from
the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The Greek word is olethron: destruction. From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction,
but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the
One who is able to save and to destroy;

2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for
fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient
toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!

Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in
Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ
will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
How can it be any clearer?

Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead!

After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.

Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.

Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.

Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.

Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:

Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed

Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed

Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing

Following the resurrection and judgement of all is when the mortal put on the
immortal, not before. Then too shall the corruptible put on the incorruptible.
See 1 Corinthians 15:54~ Death will be swallowed up in victory.

In fact, Jesus Christ has already overcome death.
Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.

PrynceNY · Mar 18, 2017

Magenta said:

How did you come to this conclusion? Can you give explicit Scriptures to support this view? I can give explicit Scriptures that plainly and unequivocally support my view. Here are a few of them: There are many many many Scriptures that attest to the fact that death is the final everlasting punishment for the person who refuses to accept the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ as a covering for their sin. The lost perish and are no more. Strong's concordance word 622 Perish apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: apollumi Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee) Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain). HELPS Word-studies 622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó). 622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end. Matt 7:13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. Matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Luke 13:3 I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void. Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured). John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there. John 5:24, Jesus said "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life." Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Note: Death, not eternal torment. 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. Please, note again: Destroy, not torture alive forever. Galations 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish. The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, Destruction, not eternal living torment. The Greek word is olethron: destruction. From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction. Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. James 1:15b and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. James 4:12a There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; 2 Peter 3:7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. All ungodly men will perish unless they repent. 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. If you are not alive you cannot be tormented! Jude 5 Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. Revelation 2:11b He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death. The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction. How can it be any clearer? Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. Revelation 20:14-15 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death. Revelation 21:8 “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead! After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead. Ezekiel 18:4 The soul who sins will die. Psalm 1:4-6 Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked leads to destruction. Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever. Psalm 9:6 even the memory of them has perished. Psalm 34:16 but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to blot out their name from the earth. Psalm 37:9 For those who are evil will be destroyed, Psalm 37:20 But the wicked will perish: Psalm 37:22 those he curses will be destroyed Psalm 37:28b Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed Psalm 37:34 when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it. Psalm 37:38 But all sinners will be destroyed; there will be no future for the wicked. Ecclesiastes 9:5 the dead know nothing Following the resurrection and judgement of all is when the mortal put on the immortal, not before. Then too shall the corruptible put on the incorruptible. See 1 Corinthians 15:54~ Death will be swallowed up in victory. In fact, Jesus Christ has already overcome death. Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Among the various scriptures you mentioned you seem to have left out Revelation 20:10 -And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The devil, false prophet & the beast will be tormented forever. Yet some how people believe in annihilation when that's not the case Matthew 25:41- Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Hell is eternal torment I understand it's hard for some people to accept.

Magenta · Mar 18, 2017

PrynceNY said:

Various Scriptures? Haha I gave a multitude of Scripture and you pretend it is as nothing. The lake of fire is prepared for the devil and his angels, you say so yourself, they (the devil and his angels) will be tormented. Can you read? Do you think death is not forever after, making it an eternal punishment? Or maybe you do not consider death a punishment? People actually pooh pooh that idea in their desperation and willingness to deceive and promote the lie of Satan.

Magenta · Mar 18, 2017

Also already posted but worth another boo for those who are sincerely seeking truth.

There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that man or the soul of man is immortal aside from the life that is found through faith in the shed blood of Jesus upon the cross, where Christ paid the price for sin, which is death. In fact, Scripture explicitly says that man is mortal and puts on immortality through Christ. Scripture also explicitly says that only God is immortal, and that He can destroy both body and soul. Over and over and over again we are told that the soul that sins shall die. The dead know nothing. Anyone not found in Jesus Christ at the end of this age passes into the second death. These things are all explicitly stated, clearly said, and yet people deny them.

There are quite a few places in the Bible where forever is not
meant to be taken to mean without end. Here are a few of them:

Sodom's fiery judgment is 'eternal' (Jude 7) - until...
God 'will restore the fortunes of Sodom' (Eze. 16:53-55).

Israel's 'affliction is incurable' (Jeremiah 30:12) - until... the
Lord 'will restore health' and heal her wounds (Jeremiah 30:17).

The sin of Samaria 'is incurable' (Micah 1:9) - until...
Lord 'will restore the fortunes of Samaria.' (Ez. 16:53).

Ammon is to become a 'wasteland forever' and 'rise no more' (Zephaniah 2:9, Jeremiah 25:27) - until... the Lord will 'restore the fortunes of the Ammonites' (Jeremiah 49:6).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation 'forever' - until... the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were 'everlasting',
that is - until... they 'were shattered' (Habakkuk 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an 'everlasting' priesthood (Exodus 40:15), that is - until... it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple 'forever' (1 Kings 8:13), that is - until... the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an 'everlasting covenant' (Leviticus 24:8), yet we read in the New Covenant the first was 'done away' and 'abolished' (2 Corinthians 3:11,13), and God 'made the first old' (Hebrews 8:13).

The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a 'perpetual' - until... Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Leviticus 6:12-13, Hebrews 8:6-13).

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah 'forever' - until... the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1:17).

Egypt and Elam will 'rise no more' (Jeremiah 25:27) - until... the Lord will 'restore the fortunes of Egypt' (Ezekiel 29:14) and 'restore the fortunes of Elam' (Jeremiah 49:39).

'Moab is destroyed' (Jeremiah 48:4, 42) - until...
the Lord 'will restore the fortunes of Moab' (Jeremiah 48:47).

Israel's judgment lasts 'forever' - until... the Spirit
is poured out and God restores it (Isaiah 32:13-15).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bondslave was
to serve his master 'forever' (Exodus 21:6), that is - until... his death."

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/restitution/meaningforever.htm

PrynceNY · Mar 18, 2017

Magenta said:

Yes I know you posted a multitude lol. Can I read? Can you read? lol You are not reading the scriptures correctly those on his left he said depart from me it's not talking about the devil & his angels it's talking about people.

Magenta · Mar 18, 2017

PrynceNY said:

Yep, they are completely destroyed in the lake of fire. Death is the end result. You ascribe the eternal torment spoken of the devil and his angels and assign it to humans. That is why I asked about your reading skills. It seems you want a sadistic God. You can have Him. The God I know and love and serve is just and merciful and loving. He has absolutely no need or desire to torture and torment rebellious people for an eternity in the fantastically fictional fiery depths of hell. Dust to dust.

PrynceNY · Mar 18, 2017

Magenta said:

I ask you about your reading skills because it seems like you want to reject what it clearly says. According to your thinking both the devil & people will be casted in hell yet people will turn to "dust" and the devil, false prophet & beast will be tormented forever, if you want to believe that go ahead. Why would I want a sadistic God? I didn't put tormented day & night in the bible the Lord did. Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” I mean it's clearly there lol but as I said before it's hard for people to accept.

wolfwint · Mar 18, 2017

buddyt said:

Many it helps to see that death is not an end of something, even when many believe it. Death is what seperates us from God. Through sin we are faceing the first death. Through Jesus death and ressuraction the first death is besieged. We can have unity with the father again. The second death is an eternity seperation from God. The soul will not have an end. But will be for ever seperatet from God along with Satan in the lake of fire.

Desertsrose · Mar 18, 2017

Magenta said:

Thanks, Magenta!

I looked at some of the article, but not all. And then I looked up Christadelphians and this group of people aren't biblical believers. So it's hard for me to take what they write seriously.

I did find an article by David Reagan whom I admire and will read His on destruction. This will take me awhile because I'm going to read the Hebrew and Greek along with reading in context and cross referencing.

I would love to find biblical truth that my loved ones who don't accept the Lord will not be tortured forever. However, I don't want to compromise God's truth either.

I did find at askquestions.org an article that speaks to this subject. I thought you might like to read it as well.

Question: "Is annihilationism biblical?"

Answer: Annihilationism is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell.

In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate.

Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek word aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in New Testament, aionion is sometimes used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever.

Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight…” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin.

A more personal aspect of annihilationism is the idea that we could not possibly be happy in heaven if we knew that some of our loved ones were suffering an eternity of torment in hell. However, when we arrive in heaven, we will not have anything to complain about or be saddened by. Revelation 21:4 tells us, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” If some of our loved ones are not in heaven, we will be in 100 percent complete agreement that they do not belong there and that they are condemned by their own refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 3:16; 14:6). It is hard to understand this, but we will not be saddened by the lack of their presence. Our focus should not be on how we can enjoy heaven without all of our loved ones there, but on how we can point our loved ones to faith in Christ so that they will be there.

Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.

Death or Not Death

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