Not By Works
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she said,,,,,oh my to my truth to suggest that what i was saying was wrong,,, when it was truth.. when i say salvation in the sence of going to heaven is a reward for service done,,, for those who keep the faith untill the end. 
this is truth its not wrong and so the drama continues.
this is truth its not wrong and so the drama continues.
I'm sorry about the "oh my." That was a bit arrogant on my part and I am truly sorry. My arrogance probably caused you to not even hear the rest of what I said, which I deserve.
Now, concerning what you said in that post that I replied to, do you truly believe He begins a good work in us but that salvation must be earned? Or did you just phrase what you believe in an unfortunate way?
It does when you just apply one meaning to it.. heaven being in you and you actually going to place called heaven is two diffrent things...
Now the saying you can take the girl out of yew york is fine.. but you cant take the yew york out of the girl.. is true,
Once Jesus has a hold of you i think theres a good chance you will get to see the place called heaven that is in you if you are saved.. now that said even the saved are told to keep the faith unto the end. and to keep it real..
Where also told not to press the self destruct button .. BY THE ROCK PETER ......
I GO BY Gods son of man Jesuses right hand man peter who is the holder of the keys to the kingdom.
Now the saying you can take the girl out of yew york is fine.. but you cant take the yew york out of the girl.. is true,
Once Jesus has a hold of you i think theres a good chance you will get to see the place called heaven that is in you if you are saved.. now that said even the saved are told to keep the faith unto the end. and to keep it real..
Where also told not to press the self destruct button .. BY THE ROCK PETER ......
I GO BY Gods son of man Jesuses right hand man peter who is the holder of the keys to the kingdom.
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I tell you who else will be crapping the proverbial brick....
The PLENTEOUS in number who fully expect their works to punch their ticket into the kingdom.....the OTHER door they tried.....is not quite gonna be open to heaven.....
LORD, LORD HAVE we not done MANY wonderful works in your name.....<---the GOD who knows everything...does not know them...why? They attempted a different door than JESUS.....
their door-->WORKS for salvation!
The PLENTEOUS in number who fully expect their works to punch their ticket into the kingdom.....the OTHER door they tried.....is not quite gonna be open to heaven.....
LORD, LORD HAVE we not done MANY wonderful works in your name.....<---the GOD who knows everything...does not know them...why? They attempted a different door than JESUS.....
their door-->WORKS for salvation!
I hear that...it is one thing to be missing the mark because of a lack of knowledge or maybe ignorance because of youth.....but to willfully reject plain scripture, verbiage, verb tense, context and the simple ability to reason and understand words in your own language as well as the inspired Greek N.T. = an entirely different ballgame.......
emphasis on the inspired part!
emphasis on the inspired part!
W
I would like to ask. Who has to assume where I am coming from or what I am saying? And I will add, DC,Sirk,EG, Grace777,mailmandan,billyg,FreeNchrist,sully,utah,Max,Penn Ed and forgive me if I overlooked anyone on the Grace side.
Nobody has to "assume" where we are coming from and what we are saying. It's all been laid out. People aren't "assuming" what we are saying they are REJECTING what we are saying.
Nobody has to "assume" where we are coming from and what we are saying. It's all been laid out. People aren't "assuming" what we are saying they are REJECTING what we are saying.
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Do you not blaspheme God by saying that works are works are works, implying that all works are the same, in response to my post where i quoted that God is the one at work in us(rom 8:28, phil 2:13).You also agreed to a post of your follower who said that the works referred to in james 1:27 which God our Father accepts as pure & faultless, are DEAD WORKS.(post# 1609) You said that verses in the Gospel have no bearing on this thread.(post# 1614 & 1615) & the mere fact that “faith alone saves” & “OSAS” is nowhere in the bible & rejects the power of God, the Father of our Lord Jesus & all who believes, TO GIVE & TAKE AWAY SALVATION, is clearly a blasphemy towards God.
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”
Romans 2:24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
2 Peter 2:10-12 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU, consider this...
Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
John 12:42-44,46-50 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
Amen!
Do you not blaspheme God by saying that works are works are works, implying that all works are the same, in response to my post where i quoted that God is the one at work in us(rom 8:28, phil 2:13).You also agreed to a post of your follower who said that the works referred to in james 1:27 which God our Father accepts as pure & faultless, are DEAD WORKS.(post# 1609) You said that verses in the Gospel have no bearing on this thread.(post# 1614 & 1615) & the mere fact that “faith alone saves” & “OSAS” is nowhere in the bible & rejects the power of God, the Father of our Lord Jesus & all who believes, TO GIVE & TAKE AWAY SALVATION, is clearly a blasphemy towards God.
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”
Romans 2:24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
2 Peter 2:10-12 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU, consider this...
Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
John 12:42-44,46-50 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
Amen!
Unfortunately this is not true equally across the board.
People keep on saying, we are not saying this, we are saying that.
You are saying this and not saying that.
Rather than engaging in ideas, some will resort to long quotes from scripture which rely
on a certain interpretation. What people do not see is both interpretations exist together.
1. Put on the righteousness of Christ.
a. It means we have the imputed righteousness of Christ covering our sinful lives.
b. We are washed clean by Christ, and through His power and love at work in us walk righteously.
Now this causes lots of confusion, because both groups say it is obvious to see who is right.
Now with observational bias the only way you can is read all verses both ways.
And from my perspective imputed righteousness undermines real righteousness, because it accepts
there is no resolution in the believe abiding in the vine, walking in the Spirit to be righteous, which
is our inheritence.
Listen to Paul in Colossians
"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation"
Col 1:21-22
Once - in the past you were enemies of God because of your evil behavior.
Now you are holy, free from accusation because you walk righteously.
Now because Paul did not write, because you walk righteously, you could read it
you still sin, but God sees you as holy and righteous because he only sees Christs
righteousness or it is through the cross we are cleansed so we can walk righteously.
Now for me the argument becomes more important on the point of belief.
If you do not believe Christ can overcome in your life, then you will give up and not
desire and struggle for the hope he planted in you, but just resign it to the future and
some spiritual revelation that will take place. Now I know this unfortunately is not Gods
way because of words like "purify yourself" "struggle" "fight" "persever" "be holy"
"be pure" "desire righteousness"
If God is in you your desire will be to throw off evil and worldly desires, and burn in the light
to His glory, because that is our calling. We are overcomers and victors not defeatists
"The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels."
Rev 3:5
People keep on saying, we are not saying this, we are saying that.
You are saying this and not saying that.
Rather than engaging in ideas, some will resort to long quotes from scripture which rely
on a certain interpretation. What people do not see is both interpretations exist together.
1. Put on the righteousness of Christ.
a. It means we have the imputed righteousness of Christ covering our sinful lives.
b. We are washed clean by Christ, and through His power and love at work in us walk righteously.
Now this causes lots of confusion, because both groups say it is obvious to see who is right.
Now with observational bias the only way you can is read all verses both ways.
And from my perspective imputed righteousness undermines real righteousness, because it accepts
there is no resolution in the believe abiding in the vine, walking in the Spirit to be righteous, which
is our inheritence.
Listen to Paul in Colossians
"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation"
Col 1:21-22
Once - in the past you were enemies of God because of your evil behavior.
Now you are holy, free from accusation because you walk righteously.
Now because Paul did not write, because you walk righteously, you could read it
you still sin, but God sees you as holy and righteous because he only sees Christs
righteousness or it is through the cross we are cleansed so we can walk righteously.
Now for me the argument becomes more important on the point of belief.
If you do not believe Christ can overcome in your life, then you will give up and not
desire and struggle for the hope he planted in you, but just resign it to the future and
some spiritual revelation that will take place. Now I know this unfortunately is not Gods
way because of words like "purify yourself" "struggle" "fight" "persever" "be holy"
"be pure" "desire righteousness"
If God is in you your desire will be to throw off evil and worldly desires, and burn in the light
to His glory, because that is our calling. We are overcomers and victors not defeatists
"The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels."
Rev 3:5
The difference between a works-based D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset and people that rely on God's grace for transformation is not understanding the acceptance grace of God which is not based on our behavior and then not relying on the "empowering" grace of God by the Holy Spirit to transform us to reflect outwardly the new creation that we are in Christ now as our minds become renewed to the truths of Christ in us. 2 Cor. 3:17-18 & Rom. 12:2
All true believers agree with what the Christian life looks like. Where they differ is "how is this transformation done?" One believes in what they do or don't do ( they call this part - walking righteously ) - and the other believes in what Christ does in and through them - ( grace believers believe it is the life of Christ manifesting in us to walk godly and righteously in this present world Titus 2:11-12 )
For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. He gives us the will and the capability.
I find it so telling when some in the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness group call the others names and insult them and they think that they are "walking righteously". These are the very ones that say we are to walk righteously and in purity of heart and yet they exhibit the most abusive, malice-filled slanderous behavior that I have ever witnessed.
These are living no differently in this type of behavior then those that say it's ok to live a homosexual lifestyle. It's hypocrisy and Pharisee-ism at it's finest.
All true believers agree with what the Christian life looks like. Where they differ is "how is this transformation done?" One believes in what they do or don't do ( they call this part - walking righteously ) - and the other believes in what Christ does in and through them - ( grace believers believe it is the life of Christ manifesting in us to walk godly and righteously in this present world Titus 2:11-12 )
For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. He gives us the will and the capability.
I find it so telling when some in the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness group call the others names and insult them and they think that they are "walking righteously". These are the very ones that say we are to walk righteously and in purity of heart and yet they exhibit the most abusive, malice-filled slanderous behavior that I have ever witnessed.
These are living no differently in this type of behavior then those that say it's ok to live a homosexual lifestyle. It's hypocrisy and Pharisee-ism at it's finest.
W
There is a real difference in engaging in ideas and engaging in truth.
You mention imputed righteousness. You don't have to assume what I believe. I stated it clearly.
We have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us the moment we believe.......the new creation in Christ.
You keep beating your chest that we are overcomers and victors, and then in the next breath say we might not be victorious in His salvation of us. And you want us to engage in this idea. I can't, because I wholly reject that idea.......Based on truth.
You mention imputed righteousness. You don't have to assume what I believe. I stated it clearly.
We have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us the moment we believe.......the new creation in Christ.
You keep beating your chest that we are overcomers and victors, and then in the next breath say we might not be victorious in His salvation of us. And you want us to engage in this idea. I can't, because I wholly reject that idea.......Based on truth.
E
How can people listen to themselves. and not see the damage their belief makes.
We are ovdercommers, We are victorious in christ.
But we may fall away.
That's not overcoming and victory. that is defeat.. Thats like winning a small battle and having a party because you overcame the enemy and were victorious. only to have the enemy counter attack and completely destroy you.
Where is your victory? Who did you overcome? You did nothing..
only in this case, We are claiming to be overcome and victorious in Christ. only to have CHRIST fail to achieve complete victory.