Some mental illness is exactly that, an illness, while other mental "illnesses" are spiritual in nature. Scripture teaches us that God allows people to follow their own desires and false teachers. Such teachers are demonic and they poison the hearts and minds of their students. Who in their right mind would advocate for abortion on demand if they were not possessed? Spiritual warfare is real.
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Then you should understand why I keep telling you to read the Bible. It's not what Christians think. It's what God said. Sometimes we get it wrong, just like you've been told so much about the Bible that is simply not biblical. So, instead of getting your info second-hand, third-hand and beyond, get it first-hand! Get it from the Bible.
Until you do that, why should we believe what you say either? Why should you believe what you say? You already don't trust us about God. Most of us have at least read the book. Why should you trust you about God, since all you're doing is coming up with your own theories based on what others have told you? Worse yet, many who taught you the stuff you believe were never even close to being Christians.
Don't take anyone else's sayso. Learn it yourself so you can figure out when to trust someone else's sayso!
I've been telling you to read the Bible for 1-2 weeks now. Have you even opened the book?
Until you do that, why should we believe what you say either? Why should you believe what you say? You already don't trust us about God. Most of us have at least read the book. Why should you trust you about God, since all you're doing is coming up with your own theories based on what others have told you? Worse yet, many who taught you the stuff you believe were never even close to being Christians.
Don't take anyone else's sayso. Learn it yourself so you can figure out when to trust someone else's sayso!
I've been telling you to read the Bible for 1-2 weeks now. Have you even opened the book?
Isaiah 8:18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
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You have to know what repent means before trying to tell us what it looks like. Again, you need to read the Bible. Your concept of repentance isn't repent.
One of hubby's coworkers found out he had diabetes. (Very bad. He was already losing his eyesight. He had his eyes checked, had to get new glasses, but six times he went to try out the glasses and he thought the technicians kept screwing up the order, until hubby told him his eyes might be going bad because of diabetes. That's how he found out he had diabetes.) His doctor told him he had to go on a 1500 calorie diet. He wanted to, so the next day he had eggs, bacon, biscuit and gravy, for breakfast. At work at lunch time, he was eating his second hoagie (very big sandwich in a very big roll), and complained the 1500 calorie was hard work. His coworkers laughed at him, thinking he wasn't even trying, but hubby told him, "That's 1500 calories a day, not a meal."
The coworker yelled at him and said, "No one can live on merely 1500 calories a day."
The next morning he came in very contrite, and told him the doctor really did mean only 1500 calories a day.
I'm a big woman, so I really get thinking 1500 calories per meal sounds more plausible than 1500 a day.
You're doing the same thing with the word repent. It does NOT mean "feel guilty." It means "turn 180 degrees from doing that sin." True repentance means effort to turn. What you've been describing is guilt. And you're right in describing what guilt does. Not right in describing repent.
Again, why you need to read the Bible, (not even asking you to study it yet, just read it.) You've been taught some very funky things about what it says, and you need to learn what it does say and what you were taught that is funky. It's not your fault you were taught this much junk. It is your fault if you don't take the time to learn the difference between the real and the funk.
One of hubby's coworkers found out he had diabetes. (Very bad. He was already losing his eyesight. He had his eyes checked, had to get new glasses, but six times he went to try out the glasses and he thought the technicians kept screwing up the order, until hubby told him his eyes might be going bad because of diabetes. That's how he found out he had diabetes.) His doctor told him he had to go on a 1500 calorie diet. He wanted to, so the next day he had eggs, bacon, biscuit and gravy, for breakfast. At work at lunch time, he was eating his second hoagie (very big sandwich in a very big roll), and complained the 1500 calorie was hard work. His coworkers laughed at him, thinking he wasn't even trying, but hubby told him, "That's 1500 calories a day, not a meal."
The coworker yelled at him and said, "No one can live on merely 1500 calories a day."
The next morning he came in very contrite, and told him the doctor really did mean only 1500 calories a day.
I'm a big woman, so I really get thinking 1500 calories per meal sounds more plausible than 1500 a day.
You're doing the same thing with the word repent. It does NOT mean "feel guilty." It means "turn 180 degrees from doing that sin." True repentance means effort to turn. What you've been describing is guilt. And you're right in describing what guilt does. Not right in describing repent.
Again, why you need to read the Bible, (not even asking you to study it yet, just read it.) You've been taught some very funky things about what it says, and you need to learn what it does say and what you were taught that is funky. It's not your fault you were taught this much junk. It is your fault if you don't take the time to learn the difference between the real and the funk.
A
In an open forum, not sure how to do the "private" part, but I wash my hands of it and will instead focus on talking to my brothers and sisters.
Matthew 18:15-17
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
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(This is not a scold. It is a plea.)
Ariel, Imfinally has been taught a lot of junk about God and the Bible, but has not yet read it for himself (yet.)
This forum assumes we all know the Bible so are able to defend our position on most topics. This is not a good assumption for Imfinally. Kind of like defending a position as a scientist against... ummm, me (since I stink at science.
) No purpose in going into defense mode until both sides are up to speed on what the Bible does say.
Heads up, because you're defending a theory you have that can be argued by others who do know the Bible. It has to be very confusing to the one who doesn't know the Bible yet, making that theory just another cause for confusion.
And we really don't want Imfinally going to the conspiracy theory forum, because that's often occupied by many people who don't know the Bible yet either, so they can arm each other up to the hilt with nonsense never understanding that is NOT what most Christians believe, nor what God says.
Imfinallyfree is freed, but he's freed in the last couple of years from a cult. Not freed by God YET!
(And, sorry about talking about you when you're in the room, Imfinally, but if people don't know who you are, they're automatically going to think certain things by what you say. And those things aren't appreciated on this site usually, but only because the people saying them are usually trying to convince us of some whacky things. You've got some whacky ideas, but you aren't trying to convince us into believing them. You just think everyone thinks the same things. You were taught that is true, and we are the people that prove most of it isn't true. No different than if I went to China and didn't understand everybody does NOT eat hamburgers and pizza for dinner. Just what I grew up with compared to what they grew up with. It's different. You've come across a community that doesn't believe most of what you were taught. Time to learn what we were taught, before deciding if we are right or wrong. That's all. Once you get that far, than we can argue away with great delight. We really do like arguing as much as you do. lol)
Ariel, Imfinally has been taught a lot of junk about God and the Bible, but has not yet read it for himself (yet.)
This forum assumes we all know the Bible so are able to defend our position on most topics. This is not a good assumption for Imfinally. Kind of like defending a position as a scientist against... ummm, me (since I stink at science.
) No purpose in going into defense mode until both sides are up to speed on what the Bible does say.Heads up, because you're defending a theory you have that can be argued by others who do know the Bible. It has to be very confusing to the one who doesn't know the Bible yet, making that theory just another cause for confusion.
And we really don't want Imfinally going to the conspiracy theory forum, because that's often occupied by many people who don't know the Bible yet either, so they can arm each other up to the hilt with nonsense never understanding that is NOT what most Christians believe, nor what God says.
Imfinallyfree is freed, but he's freed in the last couple of years from a cult. Not freed by God YET!
(And, sorry about talking about you when you're in the room, Imfinally, but if people don't know who you are, they're automatically going to think certain things by what you say. And those things aren't appreciated on this site usually, but only because the people saying them are usually trying to convince us of some whacky things. You've got some whacky ideas, but you aren't trying to convince us into believing them. You just think everyone thinks the same things. You were taught that is true, and we are the people that prove most of it isn't true. No different than if I went to China and didn't understand everybody does NOT eat hamburgers and pizza for dinner. Just what I grew up with compared to what they grew up with. It's different. You've come across a community that doesn't believe most of what you were taught. Time to learn what we were taught, before deciding if we are right or wrong. That's all. Once you get that far, than we can argue away with great delight. We really do like arguing as much as you do. lol)
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There's definitely some on here undiagnosed..
And there are others that are also diagnosed.
Does the diagnosis change the conversation?
(I do have two mental disorders. One temporary -- PTSD. One permanent -- aphasia. Not the mother-of-all disorders, but they are truly mental disorders.)
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And then it also affects the ones who have to live with it after the person died.
I became a believer... whoa! Just noticed! Today is my rebirthday! I became a believer on April 4, 1972. Mom was dying of cancer then.
When one becomes born again, the first thing we do is find a group who gets that, so I found a missionary who taught Bible Study in our high school before the school day started. And he had an outreach in town to go to on Thursday and Saturday night. They learned Mom was dying of cance, and a couple of them were interns at the university hospital in town. (Only hospital in town, so Mom was an on-again/off-again patient there.) They went to her bedside, laid hands on her, and declared her healed. (Should have spent more time giving her the gospel.)
Mom thought they were cute and sweet. Didn't believe them, but she thought they were sweet kids. They taught me that if I believe, Mom would be healed.
July 22, 1972 Mom died. Mom had left Dad the year before, taken us with her, and lived 1500 miles away from Dad with her family. So the first thing that happened to me after she died was the wake, the funeral, and then whisked 800 miles north of us (which made us STILL 1200 miles away from where Dad lived) to her burial site, and then I and my younger brother were whisked away to Dad's house in the middle of a sub-division 15 miles from town, and me with no license or wheels to find a new group of believers.
That and one seriously important question: If it took my faith in God to heal Mom, did I fail or did God fail? Either way, was it worth following a god who couldn't even heal Mom? (My oldest brother became an atheist over that question, but he hadn't become born again yet, so it wasn't that far a leap for him. 45 years later, and he's only up to accepting there is God so he can go to heaven when he dies.)
And that is also the terrible part of the WoF crap taught! It's not just the person who dies. It's the people left behind left to pick up the pieces.
I became a believer... whoa! Just noticed! Today is my rebirthday! I became a believer on April 4, 1972. Mom was dying of cancer then.
When one becomes born again, the first thing we do is find a group who gets that, so I found a missionary who taught Bible Study in our high school before the school day started. And he had an outreach in town to go to on Thursday and Saturday night. They learned Mom was dying of cance, and a couple of them were interns at the university hospital in town. (Only hospital in town, so Mom was an on-again/off-again patient there.) They went to her bedside, laid hands on her, and declared her healed. (Should have spent more time giving her the gospel.)
Mom thought they were cute and sweet. Didn't believe them, but she thought they were sweet kids. They taught me that if I believe, Mom would be healed.
July 22, 1972 Mom died. Mom had left Dad the year before, taken us with her, and lived 1500 miles away from Dad with her family. So the first thing that happened to me after she died was the wake, the funeral, and then whisked 800 miles north of us (which made us STILL 1200 miles away from where Dad lived) to her burial site, and then I and my younger brother were whisked away to Dad's house in the middle of a sub-division 15 miles from town, and me with no license or wheels to find a new group of believers.
That and one seriously important question: If it took my faith in God to heal Mom, did I fail or did God fail? Either way, was it worth following a god who couldn't even heal Mom? (My oldest brother became an atheist over that question, but he hadn't become born again yet, so it wasn't that far a leap for him. 45 years later, and he's only up to accepting there is God so he can go to heaven when he dies.)
And that is also the terrible part of the WoF crap taught! It's not just the person who dies. It's the people left behind left to pick up the pieces.
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And then there are people like me -- God healed me twice. He hasn't healed me of my disabilities. I've gotten to the place where I don't seek healing for my disabilities. (Treatment to lessen pain? OH YEAH!) I figure if God decides to heal me of my bad back/IBS he doesn't really need my consent, and he already has my approval. lol
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I think 5.4%-18.4% is a fair profit margin.
You don't seem upset what the pharmacies are selling them for. (Way more than that.)
And, yup! Socialized medicine was our downfall too. After all, we're seriously into useless regulations that the medical field has to do whether it's good for the patient or not. (And I can really give you a rundown on how harmful that is in a blow-by-blow account from quite a bit I've learned in the last 18 months.) When the government trust no one but themselves it costs the citizens more than just money.
Funny that eyeglasses having a 800%-1000% markup doesn't bother anyone (but the poor who need them), but 5-18% is "greedy business," never "greedy lawmakers" or "greedy pharmacists."
You don't seem upset what the pharmacies are selling them for. (Way more than that.)
And, yup! Socialized medicine was our downfall too. After all, we're seriously into useless regulations that the medical field has to do whether it's good for the patient or not. (And I can really give you a rundown on how harmful that is in a blow-by-blow account from quite a bit I've learned in the last 18 months.) When the government trust no one but themselves it costs the citizens more than just money.
Funny that eyeglasses having a 800%-1000% markup doesn't bother anyone (but the poor who need them), but 5-18% is "greedy business," never "greedy lawmakers" or "greedy pharmacists."
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well Happy re-Birth-day to yah then!
so sorry about your mom. I get it. I've heard horror stories about that sort of thing myself and have experienced some major setbacks with the word of faith crowd which I now steer clear of. It's painful and a warped presentation of the love of God; in fact, the entire thing is unloving if you ask me. And we won't talk about the 'you don't have faith' you get accused of and how it sets you back because you are sure you do have faith and yet things still go south. So, yes, I know and you are right when you say they should have shared the gospel.
you can't get milk out of a rock and unless someone admits to deception, you can't insert the truth
I have heard some real whack a doodle things people believe and expect God to do because they believe, as you say, this word of faith crap.
it is crap.
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for a fact, Christians can and do have demons
I don't think I would refer TO them as possessed though
more like they are afflicted or bothered. I've seen people completely change, their eyes, their voice, and just kind of zone out and it's like something takes their place
people like to say the Holy Spirit cannot be where demons are or vice versa. If that is so, then how do you ever get rid of the demons?
demons are liars. people forget that the devil quoted scripture to Jesus in the wilderness, so they assume anything they think is good must be God
so they throw down all caution and accept. then the fun begins
I don't think I would refer TO them as possessed though
more like they are afflicted or bothered. I've seen people completely change, their eyes, their voice, and just kind of zone out and it's like something takes their place
people like to say the Holy Spirit cannot be where demons are or vice versa. If that is so, then how do you ever get rid of the demons?
demons are liars. people forget that the devil quoted scripture to Jesus in the wilderness, so they assume anything they think is good must be God
so they throw down all caution and accept. then the fun begins
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No, she's not. Actually Lauren is back but her username is still Lauren. (Can't remember it, but got a like from her a couple of weeks ago.)
And what SevenSeas sounds like is a multitude of us who have been trying to reach Joaniemarie often over the years. Better than accepting that her gospel is God's gospel.
And what SevenSeas sounds like is a multitude of us who have been trying to reach Joaniemarie often over the years. Better than accepting that her gospel is God's gospel.
