Lord we need you! Foundational truths

[Depleted]

that's a shame because I have met several unsaved people who could easily be called righteous. I know several people who are unsaved and while having many flaws have some of the most virtuous hearts i have ever met, they stand for what is right and care for the needs of others. They are atheists but I always pray for God to come into their hearts because once he does they will be some of his greatest warriors.

I don't know how you see things but for me personally i look to the heart not if they are saved are not to decide things about them. true it is vital they be saved but a righteous person is one who stands for good and who shows this virtue in all they do and believe it or not many of them are not who you might expect

You may look, but do you see? This is what God sees when he looks at Man's heart without him:
Gen 6:5 [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.[/FONT]

 

[Depleted]

One of the things that Grace7 says often is that we must look at the word through the lens of Christ (something to that effect). I believe that this statement is very true when we read or teach the OT and the law. If we fail to do this, we confuse ourselves and others that we try to teach it to.

Thank you, Ariel, for bringing this thread. The BDF seems to always get hung up on how to be saved, and never gets to the real meat of the Gospel. We are Saved, now what?

My question for everyone. When you have shared the Gospel with a person, and that person accepts Christ as his Savior, What do you do next? I suspect that many will hand that person a track or a bible, and never speak to him/her again.

Honestly?

I have absolutely no idea! I've never gotten that far. (I usually get the "aw, don't give me that baloney" type. Even my family.)

But, I would do the same thing I do for homeless people on the streets in Philly. I give what I have, and then point them to the direction of a church I trust to give them even more. (Food and clothes. Possibility of a place to live, if they find them trustworthy enough not to steal the furniture over night... and always, always the gospel and a plan to return to learn more.)

 

[Ariel82]

Lunch break. Lost glasses so excuse typos.

Shout out to all my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Sometimes when I read responses on cc, I hear songs in my head.

Current one before reading any posts is

Brandon heath song "Listen up"

Can Anyone else relate?

 

[Depleted]

Thanks G777, I just wanted you to clarify because based on your previous post, it could be mistakenly believed that you were teaching Hindu mysticism. (just and observations of the need for clarification)

They also tell people to think about joining with God, etc

That, and I'm pretty sure Hindu mystics don't get into "groovy" either. lol

 

[Ariel82]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm1OWywivcs


Track art
Listen Up
Brandon Heath
Buy for $1.29
SubscribeStart Free Radio
Subscribe to Google Play Music and listen to this song and millions of other songs. First month free.
Lyrics
Why are you crying
Did I say something wrong
Weren't we just talking
Tell me whats going on

'Cause I'm pretty sure my intentions
Were nothing more than conversation
Maybe you just needed someone
To listen to your heart

Maybe I spoke too soon
Maybe I said too much
Now that my face is blue
Think it's time I listen up
I've already said enough

Sometimes I do this
Thing is I'm so afraid
When it get's quiet
What you might have to say

'Cause I'm guilty of
Overcompensation
I'm lost in my
Own translation
I apologize, I know I
Should listen to your heart

There isn't anything that I could say
Not a word to get in the way
Of you, Of You, I am listening

 

[Depleted]

People say that but other religions have faith based righteousness too. Ba'hai, Bhakti Hinduism, even Islam and Judaism teaches of God's grace and love

but they don't teach of the full message of Jesus death on the cross: why Jesus had to die on the cross
They teach of a different Jesus and some Christians do the same.

That is why I say it's importation to teach both justification and sanctification. Otherwise you won't be able to take the difference between what the Bible teaches and other religions.

I used to ask people what makes the gospel Jesus taught better than any other religion?

Most answered like you did G777, but it's not true.

Who you have faith in matters.

Why you have faith also matters.

How you live out you faith is essential.

5:36 am going for a long road trip to the mountains.

6 day camping and hiking trip, I am excited but ask prayers for safety and the boys going with us.

Thanks. Hope everyone has a blessed day.

Camping? As in no-indoor-plumbing? I will pray you have indoor plumbing too.

 

[PennEd]

(Just taking this part out of what you said.)

If our righteousness is in Christ, how can someone who doesn't believe in him have any righteousness? Being law-abiding family members and citizens doesn't make us righteous. Might make us easier to get along with, but not righteous.

YES!! You said it much better than I. They wouldn't let me rep you.

 

[PennEd]

Lunch break. Lost glasses so excuse typos.

Shout out to all my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Sometimes when I read responses on cc, I hear songs in my head.

Current one before reading any posts is

Brandon heath song "Listen up"

Can Anyone else relate?

WhenI was at my absolutely lowest point in my life. When I thought I was lost and going to die, this song played over and over in my head and heart:[video=youtube;Vnqb7Vn4AEE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnqb7Vn4AEE[/video]

 

[Depleted]

We also have to repent of the sins we commit and learn to live godly lives. This is called personal sanctification. Making our bodies clean temple for the Holy spirit to work through our lives.

You can think about exercising but that doesn't make you healthy. You can think how godly God can make you, but unless you do what God says such as tearing down spiritual strongholds and doing the good works God commands you to do after salvation. Your faith is dead and empty vessel,

You might label that as a form of "unbelief" but why not learn to speak the language of the one asking the question,instead of insisting they learn to speak yours?

I was just asking hubby what sanctified means. I was thinking of it as just God setting us apart, but he told me it is also growing in holiness. Surprised me, so he turned me on to something John Murray wrote.

Honestly? I tried reading it, but John Murray is a bit smarter than I am, (so is hubby), so I got lost quickly, but want to link it for anyone else who is smarter than I am.

Definitive Sanctification by John Murray.

 

[Ariel82]

[h=2]The gospel is about repentance, confession and walking righteously is the question put forth.[/h]

Unless I have missed it my entire Christian life, I have always been led to believe the Gospel is the good news. You cannot repent, confess or walk righteously until you hear the good news first!

What is the Good news? The good news is laid out in John 3:16, Isaiah 54:9-10, Isaiah 53: 4-12 and 2 Corinthians 5: 17-21

Until you hear that God loves you unconditionally, He is not imputing your sins against you, that he will never be wroth or angry with you, He will never remove his covenant of Peace from you, then you are not in a position to repent, confess or walk righteously.

You have to hear the Good news before you can even make a decision to repent, confess and walk in righteousness.

It depends on if you are talking about the Good news (what Jesus did for us on the cross) or all that happens with salvation when you say the word Gospel.(both justification and sanctification)

Have you ever heard the song by,Casting crown. "What this world needs"?

 

[Depleted]

Who has said that teaching living godly lives after receiving the Holy Spirit is called "works salvation and the law of Moses?"

I have not seen this done but then again I don't read every thread or post either. I have seen the foolishness of others accusing that's what people are saying that people are against living godly but never actually witnessed it myself.

She got that from your post:

Jesus said "Repent and believe the gospel" Mark 1:15

True repentance is believing in what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection and not on what we do or don't do. That is called the Law of Moses and is called works-righteousness. We live in the New Covenant which is faith-righteousness based.

This true repentance which is to change your mind the way you think is to rely on Christ's work alone causes us to behold the glory/goodness of the Lord which is what the Holy Spirit uses to transform us. True repentance does not look to self for doing it's own deeds of righteousness but to Christ alone.

Get this backwards and we create a religion of our own self-works which has the appearance of good but denies the power to effect real transformation in a person's life.

Faith-righteousness based on Christ's work alone is a stumbling block to all works-based righteousness mindsets just as Paul talked about in Romans 10:1-5.

 

[Grace777x70]

She got that from your post:

Yes..I saw that. Thanks. Groovy man...food to meditate on while sitting on a mountain!...

It turns out that the discussion originally was talking about two kinds of righteousness ( either faith-righteousness which is in Christ's work or works-righteousness which is based on what we do or don't do ) and not talking about walking in godliness. Two different things.

 

[Depleted]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm1OWywivcs


Track art
Listen Up
Brandon Heath
Buy for $1.29
SubscribeStart Free Radio
Subscribe to Google Play Music and listen to this song and millions of other songs. First month free.
Lyrics
Why are you crying
Did I say something wrong
Weren't we just talking
Tell me whats going on

'Cause I'm pretty sure my intentions
Were nothing more than conversation
Maybe you just needed someone
To listen to your heart

Maybe I spoke too soon
Maybe I said too much
Now that my face is blue
Think it's time I listen up
I've already said enough

Sometimes I do this
Thing is I'm so afraid
When it get's quiet
What you might have to say

'Cause I'm guilty of
Overcompensation
I'm lost in my
Own translation
I apologize, I know I
Should listen to your heart

There isn't anything that I could say
Not a word to get in the way
Of you, Of You, I am listening

And then there is the other side of that conversation.

(Warning: Do NOT drink anything while watching this, unless you like fluids blowing out your nose. lol)

[video=youtube;-4EDhdAHrOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg[/video]

Sometimes it really is about the nail in the forehead.

 

[Grace777x70]

And then there is the other side of that conversation.

(Warning: Do NOT drink anything while watching this, unless you like fluids blowing out your nose. lol)

[video=youtube;-4EDhdAHrOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg[/video]

Sometimes it really is about the nail in the forehead.

LOL..that is absolutely hilarious!

 

[resurrection33]

so we can learn from out mistakes, and thus, save ourselves?

By learning from our mistakes, we can avoid future trouble. Paul sort of put it the way you did, though:

[12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
[13] for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Phil 2:12-13 RSV

 

[resurrection33]

How. You tell your kid to not get a cookie.. The kid gets the cookie anyway,

The law did not keep the kid out of trouble.. What could have kept the kid out of trouble?

God told adam to not eat of a tree.. Adam ate of the tree, and the whole world suffered.

The law did not keep adam out of trouble. What could have kept adam out of trouble?

The Lord cranks up the pressure on us if we resist learning from our mistakes.

 

[Spokenpassage]

The gospel is about the person and work of Jesus Christ. Repentance, confession, and holy living are important, however, these are not the gospel itself. Repentance is our response to the gospel, confession is our open expression of the gospel, and holy living is a result of the reception of the gospel.

How does someone gain salvation?

Through repentance and faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ.

How does God want to live our lives?

In holiness with an attitude of thankfulness and fear.

 

[PeterJens]

It turns out that the discussion originally was talking about two kinds of righteousness ( either faith-righteousness which is in Christ's work or works-righteousness which is based on what we do or don't do ) and not talking about walking in godliness. Two different things.

This type of language seems to be trying to do one thing, make the actor of a good deed
the most important thing and not the good deed itself.

God thinks good deeds are so great, is you do them or right deeds, He will call you
righteous, especially if you stop doing evil things and do what He commands and desires.

Now God does not care who does this stuff. In fact if you do good righteous things He
calls you righteous, and if you do evil nasty stuff he calls you an evil doer.
Faith has not yet entered to conversation, this is just behaviour.

Now if you also believe in God and walk in His ways he will count this as righteousness.
Now this is Gods language not ours.

Now let us look at our language. Faith righteousness or works righteousness.
I think what people are saying is faith righteousness occurs without doing anything
and is just imputed righteousness from Christ, and works righteousness is just our
good behaviour without Christ.

Now both are wrong. Christ righteousness bought us forgiveness of our sins.
Doing good things, walking righteously gets us Gods blessing. But then believing in
God and walking in His ways is counted as righteousness.

Now these legalist hunters will not let this one go, because they believe the biggest
evil is people believing they are doing the right thing and justifying themselves before
God, which is replacing Christ. Now it is they alone who can decide who is doing this
and who is not just showing the fruit of Christ in their lives.

So show a warning light and like leeches on your body they will try and suck the life
out of you and your faith, while calling this Gods ministry. Maybe they will be repulsed
by simple scripture

You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.
Matt 5:13-14

Now guess what the salt is, and the light? Our behaviour, our good works,
our love demonstrating Christ working in us.

These are simple truths being polluted by definitions which are poison to the soul
and from the enemy. What is a problem is sin that lays hidden, failure that is
unresolved, and lack of growth in love and grace in ones heart.

But this would be too much for these guys as they spend all their time putting
other believers down, lol

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The law is a belief system where you do things or don't do things to try to achieve your own righteousness. All works-based righteousness mindset are living from this very same principles of the Law. These do not submit themselves to the righteousness of God in Christ and thus create and develop their own D.I.Y self-righteousness.

We are only righteous in what Christ has done - get this wrong and we develop our own religion of self-works righteousness which actually is denying Christ Himself and exchanging Him for what we do. This is an anti-Christ belief system. Works-righteousness is an anti-Christ belief system.

There are fruits of righteousness but these do not make us righteous. Fruits are manifested because we are already righteous in Christ. Christ alone is our righteousness.

Paul said that in the last days they would be anti-Christ - not that they would be anti-God. There is a vast difference.

Christ alone and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection is our righteousness. 1 Cor. 1:30

 

[trucker62]

Well said. Some people get the gospel backwards and try to "dictate" the life of God into people and instead it creates a works-based mindset of trying to do your own righteousness and this nullifies the very grace needed to effect real transformation by the Holy Spirit.

For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. We participate in this with the Holy Spirit as sons of our loving Father but not to "attain to some sort of righteousness" but because we are already righteous by Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

They try to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do and thus the gospel is not believed on like it should be. There is no foundation for the people to build on.

The gospel which is Christ Himself is the power of God for salvation to all who believe. In it - Jesus - the righteousness of God is revealed.

Trying to "dictate' the fruit of the Spirit without allowing the life of Christ to bear His fruit in us creates a religion of self-works which actually nullifies the very grace needed for real transformation to occur.

This all starts with acknowledging that we are righteous because we are in Him - not because of what we do or don't do. Humbling ourselves to agree with what God says we are because of His Son's work.

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!