RIDICULOUS CHRISTIAN CLAIMS AND SHAMING JESUS

[popeye]

I went from the Baptist to the Charismatics because I though the Baptist were draging their feet and not getting with the program. I enjoyed the worship service in the Charismatic church I joined and I liked the people, however I soon found some disturbing things. They often preached how they believed the entire bible, however in practice I found that they had no problem ignoring places in the bible that did not agree with what they wanted to think and do. Also, there was this attitude that God was doing great things in their midst, when it was just not happening, all kinds of stories always of miracles that were never confirmed. Maybe a person who likes to hear stories and just believe would be happy there, I am the kind of person who checks things out to the tiny details, because I really want to know the truth. I found most of what was happening to be fake, and pretense. I left that very Pentecostal church to a tiny little church where the Pastor did believe in the gifts of the Spirit, however the service was more like the Baptist. I found that God REALLY did things there for people and no one was pretending.

I find that hard to believe. Your story does not ring true.

You blanket indict a huge group of believers over your limited exposure to one church.

It really sounds fake. You can not be that disconnected,as if your limited encounter has any bearing on the world wide scope of millions of members of the body of Christ.

 

[tourist]

Why not a cat? If God had chosen a cat, that's His choice. He instead chose a dumb-ass. Peter the apostle testifies to that truth. 2 Peter 2.16. Moses also.
Where's the confirmation that a cat spoke to a person?

The only cat that I know can talk is Felix.

 

[Josefnospam]

There is no shame in Christ. He is God and his people say so. The rest of the world will bow to him and every eye shall see him as he is when he comes back from his business to get his people. Until then keep the faith, and praise him, watching and waiting.

It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord ......Lam 3:26

 

[DJ2]

And you are the authority on these games Christians are playing? I don't see healing as a game.

He who claims must prove. A claim without proof is meaningless at best, heresy at worst. The bigger the claim the bigger the need for proof. To the person who accepts such claims an answer is required. To the person who rejects such claims, nothing more is required. To reject a claim is a judgement. To accept a claim is a judgement. To ignore a claim is a judgement. All choices are judgements. A false claim of a healing is no game. To accept a false healing as true is no game. To ignore a baseless claim of healing is to not play at all.

 

[oldethennew]

BS,

when our Saviour shows us something 'one-on-one', do you really think that He tells us
that we have to 'prove' to 'all others' that this actually happened to us in order for us to
'believe' that it was REAL and from HIM???

not only would one 'never-give-a-care', but more than likely 'never' even 'think about it'...
the 'TELLING', that is...

 

[LanceA]

He who claims must prove. A claim without proof is meaningless at best, heresy at worst. The bigger the claim the bigger the need for proof. To the person who accepts such claims an answer is required. To the person who rejects such claims, nothing more is required. To reject a claim is a judgement. To accept a claim is a judgement. To ignore a claim is a judgement. All choices are judgements. A false claim of a healing is no game. To accept a false healing as true is no game. To ignore a baseless claim of healing is to not play at all.

Why do you need proof? There are plenty of youtube videos out there on healing and I guarantee the people who need proof would still say it was fake.

The only healing I mention on here is my own healing. I have seen other healings done but I won't post them on a forum like this because people love to throw out the words heresy, fake etc....

By the way welcome to CC. Seems strange your very first post is on this thread.

 

[Ash_JFF]

Luckily, Christians in my real life are not so foolish or I'd likely abandon Christianity.

If your decision to "abandon" Christianity is based on people then you are very much in the wrong. You should choose Christ because He is Truth not because of what other people say or do, even if they claim to be Christian. You should follow Jesus based on who He is.

 

[DJ2]

BS,

when our Saviour shows us something 'one-on-one', do you really think that He tells us
that we have to 'prove' to 'all others' that this actually happened to us in order for us to
'believe' that it was REAL and from HIM???

not only would one 'never-give-a-care', but more than likely 'never' even 'think about it'...
the 'TELLING', that is...

What you claim is on your head, what I believe is on my head. You will be judged by your claims, if they are false you will stand in judgement of them. If I accept your claims to be true, I also will be judged by them. If God wants to show you something "one-on-one" that's fine, it may be true or false. But for me to accept your claim I need proof. This is a rather simple request and a basic principle of reason.

When the Jews refused to accept the words of Jesus as Messiah, He offered proof to His claim (John 10:37-38 & Matthew 12:8-14).

Thomas demanded evidence, a reasonable request and Jesus responded with proof. (John 20:24-29)

God told Moses to offer proof to the Jewish slaves when he made his claims about his mission. (Exodus 4:1-9)

The need for proof of the miraculous is part of the flow and form of the Bible. There are countless examples of this throughout the scriptures.

What kind of response from others were you expecting to your empty claim?

 

[stonesoffire]

Back to the OP...what did the cat say?

 

[preacher4truth]

Back to the OP...what did the cat say?

It started with "Meee..." but after that I'm not sure what it said!

 

[DJ2]

Why do you need proof? There are plenty of youtube videos out there on healing and I guarantee the people who need proof would still say it was fake.

The only healing I mention on here is my own healing. I have seen other healings done but I won't post them on a forum like this because people love to throw out the words heresy, fake etc....

By the way welcome to CC. Seems strange your very first post is on this thread.

Thank you LanceA I look forward to chatting with fellow truth seekers.

I must state that the offering of videos as proof of the miraculous is a sign of a poor and baseless defense. The recorded videos of past miraculous events are never a substitute for the type of evidence presented in the Bible. The miraculous proves itself. In other words, the miraculous is not meant of be proven but meant to prove. If you have to defend your claim of a miraculous event with words or videos it must not be much of a event. Your personal healing can not be labeled as a sign from God anymore then any other healing experienced by any other person. Even if God did supernaturally heal you it does not hold weight in when scripture is being applied.

 

[tourist]

Back to the OP...what did the cat say?

I believe that the cat said meow.

 

[LanceA]

Thank you LanceA I look forward to chatting with fellow truth seekers.

I must state that the offering of videos as proof of the miraculous is a sign of a poor and baseless defense. The recorded videos of past miraculous events are never a substitute for the type of evidence presented in the Bible. The miraculous proves itself. In other words, the miraculous is not meant of be proven but meant to prove. If you have to defend your claim of a miraculous event with words or videos it must not be much of a event. Your personal healing can not be labeled as a sign from God anymore then any other healing experienced by any other person. Even if God did supernaturally heal you it does not hold weight in when scripture is being applied.

Scripture is full of miraculous healings. So why wouldn't I be able to apply scripture to my own healing? You sir are a naysayer. I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else on this forum. My trust is in the Lord and I know without a doubt the Lord still heals, still raises the dead and still loves us enough to keep His promises. His promises, from scripture, is enough evidence for me to believe. God Bless

 

[sparkman]

Thank you LanceA I look forward to chatting with fellow truth seekers.

I must state that the offering of videos as proof of the miraculous is a sign of a poor and baseless defense. The recorded videos of past miraculous events are never a substitute for the type of evidence presented in the Bible. The miraculous proves itself. In other words, the miraculous is not meant of be proven but meant to prove. If you have to defend your claim of a miraculous event with words or videos it must not be much of a event. Your personal healing can not be labeled as a sign from God anymore then any other healing experienced by any other person. Even if God did supernaturally heal you it does not hold weight in when scripture is being applied.

I don't deny that God heals..it is more the claims of charismatic people who claim they are the instruments of God's healing, raising the dead, and deliverance from demons, especially on an internet forum.

However, regarding the videos, the vast majority are trivial, unprovable incidences such as lengthening one leg by a certain amount, or incidences that could be psychosomatic, such as headaches or pain. So, there's no way of verifying them. You do not see anyone whose limb spontaneously regenerated, or a severe cerebral palsy victim being restored.

I am not claiming God cannot do those things; I know he can, and I know the apostles and prophets of the New Testament performed such miracles to validate their ministry.

I will say, though, that I do not believe in modern day apostles in the sense of "apostles of Christ", and while I believe God may use a prophet at some point, I do not believe the claims of current day prophets. Nor do I think God expects me to, without providing validation that is unmistakable. The leader of the cult I was involved with claimed to be both, and he was accepted without validation. God doesn't expect any of us to accept someone as an apostle or prophet without 1) the lifestyle that accompanies a Christian 2) validation by signs and wonders and 3) a proper understanding of Scripture. And, in essence, I don't believe there are such individuals, but that those who make such claims are boastful and prideful. I don't think he's going to send an obvious kook as an apostle or prophet, like the ones that show up on a regular basis here.

I refer to Ephesians 2:20 in regards to the apostles and prophets being in the "foundation" of the church, in the apostolic era. For those who claim I am denying the five-fold ministry; I am not..we have their ministry through the writings of Scripture. They minster to us even while dead through the Word.

I like this article concerning alleged apostles today:

Are There Still Apostles Today? | The Cripplegate

It lays out Scriptural evidences of apostleship including 1) personal appointment by Christ himself 2) being a witness of the resurrected Christ and 3) signs and wonders to validate their claims.

I would also add that I have no issue with a "little a" apostle being a church planter or a missionary..one sent by the church to accomplish a particular task. It is "Apostles of Christ" claims I am addressing.

Internet claims are cheap, like I've said

 

[LanceA]

I don't deny that God heals..it is more the claims of charismatic people who claim they are the instruments of God's healing, raising the dead, and deliverance from demons, especially on an internet forum.

However, regarding the videos, the vast majority are trivial, unprovable incidences such as lengthening one leg by a certain amount, or incidences that could be psychosomatic, such as headaches or pain. So, there's no way of verifying them. You do not see anyone whose limb spontaneously regenerated, or a severe cerebral palsy victim being restored.

I am not claiming God cannot do those things; I know he can, and I know the apostles and prophets of the New Testament performed such miracles to validate their ministry.

I will say, though, that I do not believe in modern day apostles in the sense of "apostles of Christ", and while I believe God may use a prophet at some point, I do not believe the claims of current day prophets. Nor do I think God expects me to, without providing validation that is unmistakable. The leader of the cult I was involved with claimed to be both, and he was accepted without validation. God doesn't expect any of us to accept someone as an apostle or prophet without 1) the lifestyle that accompanies a Christian 2) validation by signs and wonders and 3) a proper understanding of Scripture. And, in essence, I don't believe there are such individuals, but that those who make such claims are boastful and prideful. I don't think he's going to send an obvious kook as an apostle or prophet, like the ones that show up on a regular basis here.

I refer to Ephesians 2:20 in regards to the apostles and prophets being in the "foundation" of the church, in the apostolic era. For those who claim I am denying the five-fold ministry; I am not..we have their ministry through the writings of Scripture. They minster to us even while dead through the Word.

I like this article concerning alleged apostles today:

Are There Still Apostles Today? | The Cripplegate

It lays out Scriptural evidences of apostleship including 1) personal appointment by Christ himself 2) being a witness of the resurrected Christ and 3) signs and wonders to validate their claims.

I would also add that I have no issue with a "little a" apostle being a church planter or a missionary..one sent by the church to accomplish a particular task. It is "Apostles of Christ" claims I am addressing.

Internet claims are cheap, like I've said

I think you are hung up on this apostle thing. You don't need the title of Apostle to heal anyone. Every born again Christian has Holy Spirit inside of them. Holy Spirit provides the same God given power the Apostle's had in the NT. It isn't our power but the ability through Holy Spirit to perform Miracles. If I were to heal someone, in no way do I say I healed them. All Glory and All Power comes from God not us.

So I guess the question is, do you believe Christians today can still perform healings like the Apostle's did in the NT?

 

[truthhurts]

What you claim is on your head, what I believe is on my head. You will be judged by your claims, if they are false you will stand in judgement of them. If I accept your claims to be true, I also will be judged by them. If God wants to show you something "one-on-one" that's fine, it may be true or false. But for me to accept your claim I need proof. This is a rather simple request and a basic principle of reason.

When the Jews refused to accept the words of Jesus as Messiah, He offered proof to His claim (John 10:37-38 & Matthew 12:8-14).

Thomas demanded evidence, a reasonable request and Jesus responded with proof. (John 20:24-29)

God told Moses to offer proof to the Jewish slaves when he made his claims about his mission. (Exodus 4:1-9)

The need for proof of the miraculous is part of the flow and form of the Bible. There are countless examples of this throughout the scriptures.

What kind of response from others were you expecting to your empty claim?

Jesus said this to Thomas and you seem to miss it:

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

 

[miknik5]

Did I say I witnessed someone raised from the dead? Now in third world countries this actually occurs quite a bit. As far as the cat. Well God has used animals before and He has used bushes sooooo can I say 100% this didn't occur? Nope not at all.

For what purpose?

 

[miknik5]

I'm with you Sparkman:


"For I desired to know nothing but CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED"

 

[DJ2]

Jesus said this to Thomas and you seem to miss it:

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

I have been a born again Christian since 1984 and have never seen a miraculous event. Yet I believe.
Jesus showed proof of the miraculous when asked. He did not offer scripture, He did not offer hearsay, He did offer a verbal discourse or any of the multitude of excuses that are bantered about by the charismatic sects. Those who claim prove. The Bible is very clear on this subject.

 

[miknik5]

HE also said a wicked generation asks for a sign but none shall be given it except the sign of Jonah


in the last days, the great imitator will offer a false christ who will ooh and ahh many with false signs and wonders