THE DECEIVED CHRISTIAN

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LanceA

Guest
#81
I suppose I will go to my grave wondering about this one, how can solid Christian teachers that seem to me to be really walking with God, miss the falseness of the pre-trib rapture teaching? First of all, most who believe in the false pre-trib rapture teaching are just following the crowd, they are supposing it to be true because so many others are teaching it. Then you have those who make a practice of twisting just about everything in the bible so it is no wonder that they twist the scriptures so they can believe an escape from the tribulation. I clearly understand all that, however I do not understand how someone like Adrian Rogers could be so deceived over such an important biblical teaching as the return of Christ. I found nothing wrong with his teachings except the false pre-trib rapture, it seems reasonable to me that a man who is so truthful and insightful with scripture must surely walk close to God. And since he walked that close to God then it seems reasonable that he would recognize by the Spirit and common sense when he had crossed the line from truth into error. I am writing this because I do not believe Adrian Rogers would had ever purposely lead people astray, so therefore he had to have actually been deceived by Satan. Folks, Satan is the deceiver, if he was deceived by teaching the false pre-trib rapture, and he was, then he had to have been deceived by Satan. Same with David Jeremiah, Charles Stanly, and many others. Apart from the issue itself(false pre-trib rapture) there is this incredible deception by Satan over most of the leadership in the church today. It is one thing to deceive the manipulators, and the unlearned, that always happens, however to deceive born again bible teachers who have a record of walking with God is astounding to me. My point is, if Satan can deceive men and women like that, over the issue of Christ return(an important issue), then what will be the next big deception? Maybe that we should all expect Jesus to arrive in Jerusalem with all the TV cameras on Him(actually heard a well known Preacher teach that). Wake up folks, we are living in a time of great deception. Note, don't anyone waste space in this forum to tell me pre-trib is true, because I know it is false, not my opinion, I absolutely know that it is false.
And I absolutely know the Pre-Trib is TRUE. So here we are with two sides believing ABSOLUTELY that something is true. Does this make you any less of a Christians? Does this make me any less of a Christian? You act like you found something new and no other Christian has ever considered both sides. What you need to come to terms with is if I'm wrong I'm not going to hell. I'm just going to go through some tough times in the Tribulation. And if you are wrong well you get to see your Lord and Savior 7 years earlier. I'm sure God will roll His eyes at one of us if we are wrong.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#82
I am not sure we believe in the same God? The LORD will roll His eyes because you rejected what His Son gave the church to believe about His return? If God does not really mind if we reject the words of His Son about His return and believe something else, then it would not really matter what we believe in this area. Actually that is the reason most Christians do not really check to see what is true in this area, they do not believe God really cares all that much either way. Folks seem to miss the point, since Jesus taught a post-trib rapture of the church, therefore teaching a pre-trib rapture of the church is a lie. The first lie in the bible was just about some fruit but it got the liar a sentence of eternity in torment, one of the last statements in the bible is that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. I just quoted the bible in context so no lecture on how believing a lie instead of God's truth will not affect your salvation. I do not know what happens to a Christian who promoted a lie instead of the truth about Christ return after they die...I do know this, our God is a consuming fire and I do not want to stand before Him after having rejected the words of His Son about His return. If that does not bother you, then so be it.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#83
Sam do you still not understand? You both believe in the same God it's just your views and understanding of the things of God differ, your truth may not be another persons truth but that doesn't mean you both don't bear the same fire inside. Our difference in understanding of the scriptures and of how we view and understand them does not measure our salvation or the God we serve we simply see with different eyes that's all. I mean for instance i can be going on my walk and I see a lot of dark clouds starting to form in the sky, now i have always found this to be beautiful that is the truth i see in these clouds but others might not see that at all however it doesn't change the fact we are both seeing clouds.

Or how about this everyone is different you will never find someone who believes thinks and sees exactly as you do we all have a different and sometimes similar understanding of what it means to be human or what life is about but that doesn't change the fact we are human and we all are in this life, yes we see through different lenses we think and feel differently but we are human and we are in this life.
 
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LanceA

Guest
#84
I am not sure we believe in the same God? The LORD will roll His eyes because you rejected what His Son gave the church to believe about His return? If God does not really mind if we reject the words of His Son about His return and believe something else, then it would not really matter what we believe in this area. Actually that is the reason most Christians do not really check to see what is true in this area, they do not believe God really cares all that much either way. Folks seem to miss the point, since Jesus taught a post-trib rapture of the church, therefore teaching a pre-trib rapture of the church is a lie. The first lie in the bible was just about some fruit but it got the liar a sentence of eternity in torment, one of the last statements in the bible is that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. I just quoted the bible in context so no lecture on how believing a lie instead of God's truth will not affect your salvation. I do not know what happens to a Christian who promoted a lie instead of the truth about Christ return after they die...I do know this, our God is a consuming fire and I do not want to stand before Him after having rejected the words of His Son about His return. If that does not bother you, then so be it.
Well are you saying you don't believe in our Lord Jesus? I'm sorry if you don't believe in him. See how silly I just sounded? It was the same thing you just posted. The reason I made the comment about God rolling His eyes is because you are focusing on something that is just silly. Our Salvation is a lot more important than this silly squabble about the rapture. You are blowing this way out of proportion and just need to simmer down.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#85
There is no pre-trib resurrection,and when they say Peace and safety,that is when the 7 years will begin,for the world will be together trying to achieve peace on earth,and will eventually not believe there is any personal God in the beast kingdom,and God will cause all who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast,then repentance,and salvation,is no longer available to them,and God will put them down.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

The saints will be on earth when they say Peace and safety,which then the 7 years period begins,but Paul said the elect will not be deceived by that,for they dwell in the truth and know that it is not the operation of God,and they will eventually rebel against God,and will lead to their hurt.The elect will know that it is not the way to achieve peace on earth,but only by God,and Jesus Christ.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

When they say Peace and safety,it will be a temptation that shall come upon all the world,to try them that dwell on earth,and it is a decision point of what side will they take,which there will be many hypocrites at that time,and they will be tempted by it,but some will overcome it,but Jesus will not allow the elect to be tempted by that,but they will know that is it is not truth,and will not have an inkling to believe that it could be the right way to operate on earth.

The saints will be on earth when the 7 years period begins,so there is no pre-trib resurrection,and for the first three and one half years,the world can repent of their sins,and salvation is available to them,as at any other time,although the deception is greater than at any other time in history,so the saints will remain on earth to be a witness to the truth.

When they take the mark,salvation is no longer available to them,and the saints can be gathered unto Christ,which is why the Bible says the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first,during the first three and one half years,and world will not accept the truth of the Bible,but only want to hear it according to the format of the unified religious system,which causes Christianity to decline in impacting the world with the truth,and the man of sin claims to be God,and they take the mark,for then salvation is no longer available to the world,and the saints can be gathered unto Christ.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The preaching of the pre-trib resurrection is going to overthrow the faith of many,of all the people who claim Christ,but are hypocritical,like the ones that said Lord,why can't we dwell with you,for they will be tempted to follow them when they say Peace and safety,but some will escape and come to truth,but some will end up following them for they will think the Bible the way they preached was not the correct interpretation,and it will overthrow their faith.

Like the Bible says in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,and follow the new age movement,which is the standard format of the unified religious system,and an interpretation of the Bible that is not fundamental,but fables.

But is people that preach a pre-trib resurrection in deception,or is it an error,them not fully understanding that subject,but then again it makes people wonder if the pre-trib came out by people who claim to be very knowledgeable in the word of God,have a great following of many people,why can't they see that there is no pre-trib,it makes a person wonder,like it makes a person wonder about the television evangelists,or any preachers like them,when the Bible says if they preach the prosperity Gospel withdraw yourself from them,having food,and clothing,be content,why do they not see that they cannot live the lifestyle they do when God does nor permit it.

It makes you wonder,how can people claim to be very knowledgeable in the word of God,and have millions of people following them,and not see things in the Bible that some simple pew sitters can see.

It makes you wonder.

But are they in deception that preach,and believe,in a pre-trib resurrection,but some people do not have enough information,and cannot see enough to make the conclusion that there is no pre-trib,but whatever the case,I believe that many of those people will not go along with the world when they say Peace and safety,for it is not a forcing for the world,and hypocrites,but a temptation,and many hypocrites,and people that do not believe proper,many of them will beat it,but many will fall victim to it.

Are they in deception,and can they be part of the elect that will not get tempted at that time,if they preach,and believe in a pre-trib,or is there more things wrong they believe,because they have a hard time understanding the Bible correctly,so along with believing the pre-trib they also have other errors.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#86
Hi Blain: We are all somewhat different, yet the bible says that God made our hearts alike. Because God made our hearts alike, He can therefore present to us ONE truth and expect every one of us to see the same truth. When Jesus gave a detailed account of His return to gather the church after the tribulation, He spoke it very clear and straightforward while warning us not to let anyone deceive us. Yet people do not believe Jesus words, but believe that He will return before the tribulation, something Jesus NEVER taught. Jesus taught a post trib gathering of the church, one can read it in Matt 24 and Mark 13, Jesus never said anything about a pre-trib gathering. My position is based on what can be read literal and in context in the bible.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#87
Hi Blain: We are all somewhat different, yet the bible says that God made our hearts alike. Because God made our hearts alike, He can therefore present to us ONE truth and expect every one of us to see the same truth. When Jesus gave a detailed account of His return to gather the church after the tribulation, He spoke it very clear and straightforward while warning us not to let anyone deceive us. Yet people do not believe Jesus words, but believe that He will return before the tribulation, something Jesus NEVER taught. Jesus taught a post trib gathering of the church, one can read it in Matt 24 and Mark 13, Jesus never said anything about a pre-trib gathering. My position is based on what can be read literal and in context in the bible.
Yes we are to be one heart one mind one and one spirit but even with the holy spirit because we are human and flawed our perception of the truth can be altered. It is one thing to teach and believe what one believes to be truth but another entirely to base peoples salvation or the God they worship if they don't believe what you do. Perhaps it is obvious to you what the truth is however not everyone will see how you do and will present to you what they believe to be absolute truth and yet does this mean they do not bear the same fire as you do?

We cannot base the love and hope of God on what we perceive to be the absolute truth because if we do this then we are saying if you don't believe what I do your going to hell and that in itself is quite an arrogant thought. We all are in different areas and different levels of faith so expecting others to believe what we say is truth is not an accurate way to assess ones heart and salvation and we in the end may even be the ones in error because while we may think and see what we believe to be the un refutable un deniable and absolute truth from God later on as we mature we may find out that we were in fact not in the right.

Only those who bear a deep and powerful love in their hearts will be able to see through loves eyes and thus be able to see the truths that only he can see and part of being able to see through such eyes is having a teachable heart and having the humbleness to admit that we may in fact be wrong.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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#88
Hi Blain: We are all somewhat different, yet the bible says that God made our hearts alike. Because God made our hearts alike, He can therefore present to us ONE truth and expect every one of us to see the same truth. When Jesus gave a detailed account of His return to gather the church after the tribulation, He spoke it very clear and straightforward while warning us not to let anyone deceive us. Yet people do not believe Jesus words, but believe that He will return before the tribulation, something Jesus NEVER taught. Jesus taught a post trib gathering of the church, one can read it in Matt 24 and Mark 13, Jesus never said anything about a pre-trib gathering. My position is based on what can be read literal and in context in the bible.

samuel23,

I believe in post trib also, and I don't believe that prophecy revelation is essential to salvation, it's more important to have faith and love for Jesus.

I believe that prophecy is revealed to men by God through the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

We all have different gifts, for example, some can sing well, others not.

Some are given the gift of prophecy revelation, others not.

We cannot judge the hearts and love and faith of others by the gift that they have been blessed with, the measure of the Spirit that they or we have been blessed with.

So what can we do?

Search the scriptures, discuss the scriptures, tell me what you think, let me tell you.

I'll learn from you, you learn from me.

Let the Spirit work. (I think we need the patience of Job sometimes)

In time, things become clearer, things will be revealed.

I don't believe that we will persuade anyone without using specific scriptures and a loving heart.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#89
Hi ABC, there are differences of opinion about certain things in the bible, example, is the church the bride of Christ or is the New Jerusalem the bride of Christ. The pre-trib rapture is not a difference of opinion, it is an end time deception made to cause great numbers of people to fall away from the faith when Christ does not return pre tribulation. When you once realize the incredible danger potential of the pre-trib rapture, then it makes one feel like Lot, desperately trying to convince people before it is too late. Also, the whole thing has a ridiculous side, we have Jesus clearly describing the rapture of the church and saying it will occur after the great tribulation...then you have professing Christians saying it will not happen like Jesus said it would happen. I am thankful to God for allowing me to see the church has to be gathered just like Jesus said, after the tribulation, however it was much easier when I believed the lie, that there was a pre-trib rapture.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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#90
Hi ABC, there are differences of opinion about certain things in the bible, example, is the church the bride of Christ or is the New Jerusalem the bride of Christ. The pre-trib rapture is not a difference of opinion, it is an end time deception made to cause great numbers of people to fall away from the faith when Christ does not return pre tribulation. When you once realize the incredible danger potential of the pre-trib rapture, then it makes one feel like Lot, desperately trying to convince people before it is too late. Also, the whole thing has a ridiculous side, we have Jesus clearly describing the rapture of the church and saying it will occur after the great tribulation...then you have professing Christians saying it will not happen like Jesus said it would happen. I am thankful to God for allowing me to see the church has to be gathered just like Jesus said, after the tribulation, however it was much easier when I believed the lie, that there was a pre-trib rapture.
Bro, yer preaching to the choir.

I agree with you. Study is the answer. I have learned so much here from everybody.

Pre trib is dangerous because people think, "I'll wait until after the rapture to be saved, when I have proof."

But even pre tribbers say not to wait to accept Jesus, do it now! You may die tonight! Or sooner!

(I just had a friend die in a car accident, Praise Jesus, she was, is, a Christian)

And there are some other problems, such as having too many resurrections.

Even you and I probably disagree in some places.

But, let us reason together.
 
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Tryingtorepent86

Guest
#91
Everything is happening so fast. I've felt the Lord my savior from time to time growing up. Now I'm married with kids and the world is coming to the end. My father committed suicide last year. ( I never knew him) and my mother was a abusive drunk. And drug user. I was raised by mental hospitals and group homes.....I've done a lot of and things in my life and only recently I have started to care and change going on 4 years now battling my demon's and trying to stay in the grace of God. I recently (7 months) have taken the advantage of the Lord's gifts. I still sin daily but now I don't practice sin full time. Hopefully I can (I will) walk the straight and narrow path and obey Jesus teachings before its to late.i guess what I'm trying to say is good works on his terms. This is his game and he is both team's. Stay strong love you all.... Johnny
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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#92
Everything is happening so fast. I've felt the Lord my savior from time to time growing up. Now I'm married with kids and the world is coming to the end. My father committed suicide last year. ( I never knew him) and my mother was a abusive drunk. And drug user. I was raised by mental hospitals and group homes.....I've done a lot of and things in my life and only recently I have started to care and change going on 4 years now battling my demon's and trying to stay in the grace of God. I recently (7 months) have taken the advantage of the Lord's gifts. I still sin daily but now I don't practice sin full time. Hopefully I can (I will) walk the straight and narrow path and obey Jesus teachings before its to late.i guess what I'm trying to say is good works on his terms. This is his game and he is both team's. Stay strong love you all.... Johnny
.

Hi Johnny,

I'm always encouraged when I about hear the power of Jesus' love working in our lives.

Thank you for sharing this.

I pray that Jesus will strengthen your faith and give you confidence to face the world.

We choose our path, but the Lord will direct our steps, just stay on the straight and narrow path, let the Lord do His part.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#93
The world is not coming to an end.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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#97
Every generation since the "dest of jeru" has claimed just the same thing.
I would not want to derail samuel23's thread.

So I will continue this on "bridegroom".
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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#98
Is anything more sad then the deceived Christian? It is like the football player who got hit really hard and spun around while running for a touchdown, and without realizing it he was running to score for the opposing team, and he did it to, he made points for the team they were trying to beat. Though it was obvious to the spectators that he was scoring for the enemy, yet not obvious at all to him, he was making a total fool out of himself in the eyes of everyone but himself. So it is with the professing Christians who insist on promoting the false pre-tribulation gathering of the church. They are joyously charging down the field to score points for Satan, not knowing that informed Christians, the angels of God, the Father and the Son, are saddened, possibly even embarrassed(if God can be embarrassed). Of course, Satan and his followers are rolling on the ground with laugher because they have professing people of God destroying people of God. Make no doubt about it, if the false pre-trib rapture is still in place when Christ returns it will cause the loss of possibly millions of souls.
Matthew 24:23-25 "Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.25 See, I have told you beforehand."

It's not possible for a Christian to be lead astray, you can be a person that goes to Church that is unregenerate and be lead astray, but there is no way a Christian can be lead astray.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#99
Hi Johnny: I am glad that you made that point. I have probably thought at least one hundred times about that scripture in regards to the fact that it appears that most of the bible teachers who seem to be solid in the Lord are in truth deceived about the return of Christ, believing a fable rather then the words of Christ. I can absolutely prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the pre-trib rapture teaching is false, on the other hand, I cannot prove that Adrian Rogers, David Jeremiah, and Charles Stanly, are truly godly men, though everything I know about these men(except their pre-trib teaching) tells me they are men of God. It is somewhat like the unstoppable force going against the unmovable object...what is the answer. How could 95%(guess) of born again bible teachers who seem to really walk with God believe and teach something that is in direct contradiction of what Jesus Christ Himself taught? My point is that we are living in very scary times when Satan has deceived most reputable bible teachers. Another point, ANYONE can find proof in the bible that the pre-trib rapture is false if they have the nerve and the integrity to really look.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest

please people. Lets stop giving this person an audience, thread after thread of this person attacking fellow believers (if he is really one himself I am not sure) of something he disagrees with which is not even a salvation issue.

Please stop. so he will stop with these nonsense threads