Hey Rick: Sorry, but I care about people, as long as you are nice and respectful of the pre-trib lie then you give it credence. I do not attack persons, I do attack false doctrines that hurt persons. The Lord gave me this message in 1984, that is about 33 years ago. I have found a few Christians who will actually listen and look it up in the bible and see that it is true. The odd thing is that many professing Christians do not think God minds if they believe in a false return of Christ.
THE DECEIVED CHRISTIAN
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Hey Dino, I have already told you, I even created a story to illustrate it. If Christ returned five years from today, and the prevailing belief is still pre-trib, what do you think will happen when millions of Christians do not get raptured but find themselves in the tribulation pursued by the Antichrist? IT WILL APPEAR THAT GOD DID NOT KEEP HIS WORD. That is exactly the way Satan has it planned.
Kay, instead of trying to destroy the one bringing the message why not actually read the places in the bible about the return of Christ to gather the church. OK, if you don't like the story of Ananias and his wife try this one...all liars will have their part in the lake of fire, does that fit? instead of jumping on the bandwagon with insults, why not prove me wrong with scripture, can you do it??
Angela, I never said anyone was going to hell for believing the pre-trib lie, neither would I say with absolute certainty that one can teach the pre-trib lie as did John Darby, and still go to Heaven...the truth is, I do not know exactly what God is going to do in this case. I do know that God becomes very angry when someone changes His word, in particular when it causes great harm to others. I know that pre-trib is changing God's word and it has the potential of causing great harm to others, when Christ does not appear as expected. My job is to warn pre-trib folks that they are believing and promoting a dangerous lie...the rest is up to them.
Huh!? If Christ returned 5 years from today won't that mean that believers in HIM will be with HIM?
Also, you can't seem to grasp the idea that we put our faith in Jesus Christ, NOT the rapture.
I will say, that the idea that Christians won't face persecution is wrong. MOST of the (true) Church, for MOST of the world, for MOST of it's existence, has had persecution. We in the west have been blessed for the most part with little persecution of the type others endure. This may soon change.
BUT, it's silly to think God's children will go through the Great Tribulation, as it's purpose is to punish those that have rejected Him, and to shake to life those that will be saved in it to His Son.
Also, you can't seem to grasp the idea that we put our faith in Jesus Christ, NOT the rapture.
I will say, that the idea that Christians won't face persecution is wrong. MOST of the (true) Church, for MOST of the world, for MOST of it's existence, has had persecution. We in the west have been blessed for the most part with little persecution of the type others endure. This may soon change.
BUT, it's silly to think God's children will go through the Great Tribulation, as it's purpose is to punish those that have rejected Him, and to shake to life those that will be saved in it to His Son.
K
Umm no,your second example is still wrong.I believe pre-trib to be true so Im not a liar.A liar is someone who is deliberate.Still a wrong example.
So here is the issue with "proving" someone wrong that I have learned here.My father has always said "you cant talk sense to anyone who says "God told me"" And he's right. You're determined you're right and any Scripture I give you'll twist to say what you believe it to say.We just had a guy here claiming Jesus wasn't sinless.We have Catholics that argue up and down for confession to a priest. We had a guy that cant keep his marriage together saying polygamy was the answer to his problems. People believe what they want irregardless of what Scripture says.And Im getting awfully tired of doing these circles with people and being told Im an agent of satan because I dont want a sister wife to make love to my husband,on and on it goes. Im getting tired of the tripe. Its getting really,really old.
So here is the issue with "proving" someone wrong that I have learned here.My father has always said "you cant talk sense to anyone who says "God told me"" And he's right. You're determined you're right and any Scripture I give you'll twist to say what you believe it to say.We just had a guy here claiming Jesus wasn't sinless.We have Catholics that argue up and down for confession to a priest. We had a guy that cant keep his marriage together saying polygamy was the answer to his problems. People believe what they want irregardless of what Scripture says.And Im getting awfully tired of doing these circles with people and being told Im an agent of satan because I dont want a sister wife to make love to my husband,on and on it goes. Im getting tired of the tripe. Its getting really,really old.
Hi Magenta, OK, two different things, I never said that if you die today believing in a pre-trib rapture then you will go to hell for that false belief. I really do not know how God is going to handle Christians who die believing in the opposite of what Jesus gave us about His return. I said, that the generation alive at Christ return who believe in a pre-trib rapture will be devastated when Jesus does not return as promised by the pre-trib teachers, and that will cause a great falling away from the faith which will result in the loss of many souls. The great falling away occurs at the time of the Antichrist and all those who forsake Christ will have to take the mark...I think you can figure out the rest.
Hi Kay, A very big part of the tripe is the false pre-trib rapture, on that issue you are part of the tripe, not part of the solution. Also, I never twist scriptures, never, where in the world did you come up with that one? I believe in the post-trib rapture because in Matt 24 and Mark 13 Jesus told the disciples that He would return for them AFTER the tribulation. Does that look like scripture twisting? Paul said we cannot be gathered until AFTER the Antichrist is revealed, you can read that yourself in 2Thess 2. John described the church in Heaven in Rev 7 AFTER having gone through the great tribulation. Pre-trib folks have to twist scripture because the NT does not contain a pre-trib rapture. Do the bible study yourself if you really want to know.
Hi Penn: Jesus described the tribulation in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, if you will study carefully what the tribulation is you will see that it cannot be the wrath of God. The tribulation is a time of war, famine, disease, shakings, with the persecution of believers in Jesus Christ. In other words, the same things that are happening today except on a huge world wide scale. Also, the persecution of Christians will become intense, would God be persecuting His people, if the answer is no then the tribulation is not the wrath of God, it is more like the wrath of Satan against the church and Israel.
How many threads are you going to make proclaiming you dont believe in the pre-trib rapture. We get it already, there's people who obviously disagree with you. Just move on because your not going to force what you believe upon others. How about spending time welcoming new members to the body of christ & uplifting / helping others instead of constantly displaying contempt for others. You know what you could've said? You dont believe in the pre-trib rapture but you pray for others to be prepared regardless. But no all you do is display contempt & arrogance which is not of God.
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Hey Kay: I know of Lamb & Lion Ministries, used to listen to it all the time. I actually agree with just about everything he teaches except the pre-trib rapture. I wrote him years ago and pointed out what I had found in the bible, that post-trib not pre-trib is what Jesus taught. I was surprised to get an angry response, since he seemed like a nice guy. That was years ago, now I know why the angry response, because I have seen it over and over...people love the false pre-trib teaching and do not want to turn lose of it, it is like a drug to them.
K
Well if you talked the way to him the way you're talking to us I dont blame him for the angry letter. Nah, its not like a drug. I believe pre-trib is what the bible teaches. Simple as that. I believe God has promises to fulfill yet for the Jews that has nothing to do with the church. From what I see in Scripture thats why I agree with pre-trib. But I dont harass those who dont believe as I do.
Truth delivered in the love of God will be listened to. Truth wrapped in barbs and spikes will be dismissed. By your very presentation, Samuel, you are turning people away from the truth that you bear. God wants you to love people into the truth, Samuel, not try to pound it into them. Pounding rarely works and is most often very counterproductive.
Blain, Dino, Blind, Kay, Angela ... I think it's time to give this guy the truth of the ignore button. Even God knows you gather more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Blain, Dino, Blind, Kay, Angela ... I think it's time to give this guy the truth of the ignore button. Even God knows you gather more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Your story is cute, but has little explanatory power and no Scripture. Your opening post had no Scripture. It had no reason or logic. Shouting at me (USING ALL CAPS) adds nothing to your argument. Please don't waste your time or mine with further rhetoric, because it won't convince me. At least this post has a hint of logic, but it is far short of a completely sound argument.
Please try again... with Scripture this time.
Please try again... with Scripture this time.
Hi Rick, I never turned anyone from the truth, I absolutely know that. I have to accept that some folks will believe in the false pre-trib rapture, and it does not matter what the biblical evidence is or what the consequences are, they love that teaching and they will never give it up. It is not my job to save anyone from following a lie, it is my job to tell the biblical truth. I would have rather made one more rather desperate attempt to get some folks to see where they are headed with pre-trib, and have them mad at me, then to not care.
Sorry for the late reply sam I have been busy. Fisrt off i want to say that respect is earned not entitled second do not confuse correction with attacking I was not attacking you merely telling you where you were in error and how to fix it. I am not the one who becomes aggressive when others disagree with me most of your responses have been less than kind. If this topic upsets you so much then make a thread about something else,you are always going to find people who do not believe what you do that is just unavoidable and if you get so upset at people because of this then maybe you are not ready to debate on these things.