"Avenge me! Avenge me!"

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#1
(The quote is taken from Red Dawn -- the original, not the remake.)

I love a good slice-and-dice. To me a slice-and-dice is when a writer can totally destroy someone through his words. It's not enough to say, "I don't like you and wish you ill." They go into vivid details of what that ill looks like.

Doesn't seem very Christlike, does it? Christians are supposed to love everyone and wish no man harm. Which brings me to my struggles for the last couple of days -- Psalm 109. David -- a true Man of God according to God's own words, sliced-and-diced in details that make me even cringe. Me cringing is something to see, because I usually like a good slice-and-dice. (Bob Dylan was great at slice-and-dice. lol)

-- You can't say he didn't mean it. Look at it! He really meant it.

-- You can't excuse it in any way because it is officially God's word, so it is what God would have us know about God.

-- You can't say, "yeah but that's Old Covenant." God hasn't changed, and David was a Christian, even if he never knew who the Christ would be. He believed as much about God as we do. God would bring a Savior to have himself a people who love him and glorify him forever. That's exactly what it is to be a Christian. That's the same belief, other than we're looking back at that event, while David was looking forward to it.

Sooo, obvious question -- any understanding on when it is time to ask God to avenge us?

The best I have is that I am very grateful God has never placed me in the position that David was in for decades -- where people he loved deeply were out to slaughter him. I don't particularly feel inclined to think God should slaughter anyone for the slights people have given me verbally in my life. I don't even particularly feel a need to ask God to avenge me for those who physically hurt me.

When is the time to start asking God that our enemy would leave his kids fatherless, and that even his wife gets destroyed?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#2
When is the time to start asking God that our enemy would leave his kids fatherless, and that even his wife gets destroyed?
Never. The New Testament rules are different from the OT ones.
The kingdom of God is spiritual now, not physical like in the times of Israel.

"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse."
Romans 12:14
 
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#3
(The quote is taken from Red Dawn -- the original, not the remake.)

I love a good slice-and-dice. To me a slice-and-dice is when a writer can totally destroy someone through his words. It's not enough to say, "I don't like you and wish you ill." They go into vivid details of what that ill looks like.

Doesn't seem very Christlike, does it? Christians are supposed to love everyone and wish no man harm. Which brings me to my struggles for the last couple of days -- Psalm 109. David -- a true Man of God according to God's own words, sliced-and-diced in details that make me even cringe. Me cringing is something to see, because I usually like a good slice-and-dice. (Bob Dylan was great at slice-and-dice. lol)

-- You can't say he didn't mean it. Look at it! He really meant it.

-- You can't excuse it in any way because it is officially God's word, so it is what God would have us know about God.

-- You can't say, "yeah but that's Old Covenant." God hasn't changed, and David was a Christian, even if he never knew who the Christ would be. He believed as much about God as we do. God would bring a Savior to have himself a people who love him and glorify him forever. That's exactly what it is to be a Christian. That's the same belief, other than we're looking back at that event, while David was looking forward to it.

Sooo, obvious question -- any understanding on when it is time to ask God to avenge us?

The best I have is that I am very grateful God has never placed me in the position that David was in for decades -- where people he loved deeply were out to slaughter him. I don't particularly feel inclined to think God should slaughter anyone for the slights people have given me verbally in my life. I don't even particularly feel a need to ask God to avenge me for those who physically hurt me.

When is the time to start asking God that our enemy would leave his kids fatherless, and that even his wife gets destroyed?
It usually keeps happening right up to the moment we discover Jesus.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,876
13,204
113
#4
Never. The New Testament rules are different from the OT ones.
The kingdom of God is spiritual now, not physical like in the times of Israel.

"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse."
Romans 12:14
Is it men now who persecute us, or is it the god of the age, and spiritual evils?

If we are to be the judges of angels, shall we aquit them all?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#5
Is it men now who persecute us, or is it the god of the age, and spiritual evils?

If we are to be the judges of angels, shall we aquit them all?
I learned a new word today - acquit :)

I think its men. I am not sure if there is somewhere in the Bible that satan, fallen angels or demons persecute us...?

To bless somebody does not mean to say he is not guilty. It means you wish him well. I will surely wish "my angels" well and I will try to do my best to help them.
 
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#6
Even if we don't consider the OT, it has always blown my mind that most Christians actually believe that the Christ they claim to follow tells them to love their enemies.... Yet they are almost foaming at the mouth to get to "ride horses across this land" with Him, as a huge army, slaughtering those very same people with long, gleaming swords.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#7
I thought the ride with Him was when He comes to rule the world. Not to slaughter.

Off topic I know.

It's best to confront those who hurt us. Just like you did Lynn. Thank you.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#8
When did he write this, could it of been in the time between Bathsheba and Nathan the prophet, from what I've come up with is it was about a year and a half between those two times. Maybe he wrote it in that period of time, when his walk wasn't so great. Then again he did a lot of things that God said don't do, like number the people, he didn't hamstring the horses either. David was quite the character. But his heart was after God's, because his flesh wasn't.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,820
1,195
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#9
the imprecatory Psalms are difficult. but if you notice, in each one God is being asked to, er, avenge Himself.

see in v. 21 where David asks God to deal in his behalf for the sake of God's Name?
(and all that goes with it? His glory, His righteousness, etc.)

though the thoughts expressed do tend to make is cringe, this is the word of God.
we can't sweep it under the rug, or as you say, Lynn, dismiss it as "that was then" kinda stuff...

as for when in David's life it was written, see he says 'in return for my love they accuse me'...

what these Psalms express is the desire to see God's justice upheld. of course what we want for the wicked first and foremost is repentance (just as we ourselves received mercy from God).
yet we must also agree with God that His wrath on the wicked is just. God has promised blessing and curses.

we're not asking the Lord to avenge us; we're asking Him to do justice in this evil world.
think about something like the abortion industry... we pray for those involved, but do we want the 'world system' judged?

it's hard, but we should if we're thinking God's thoughts after Him.
 
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#10
I thought the ride with Him was when He comes to rule the world. Not to slaughter.

Off topic I know.

It's best to confront those who hurt us. Just like you did Lynn. Thank you.
We can actually make Revelation (and most of the Bible) sound like it means just about anything we want (hope) it to mean. But I have met hundreds of Christians who very seriously do believe and hope that it means they finally get to kill all those people about whom they have been dutifully holding their tongues for years.

I think this kind of thinking is a bit strange......... and certainly contradictory to what Christ lived and taught.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,820
1,195
113
#12
We can actually make Revelation (and most of the Bible) sound like it means just about anything we want (hope) it to mean. But I have met hundreds of Christians who very seriously do believe and hope that it means they finally get to kill all those people about whom they have been dutifully holding their tongues for years.

I think this kind of thinking is a bit strange......... and certainly contradictory to what Christ lived and taught.
no, really??

that's one of the saddest things i've ever heard. :(
 
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#14
Sadly, this is what many, many Christians are hoping, even praying, will be the scene.
.
[video=youtube;YkFRgLB7eq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkFRgLB7eq0[/video]
 
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#15
do you want some sugar in your tea too while i avenge :)
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#16
Well, I already have a sword .... just need to sharpen it :p

Imagine if people spent as much energy doing good as they do "fighting evil"
 
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#17
Sadly, this is what many, many Christians are hoping, even praying, will be the scene.
.
[video=youtube;YkFRgLB7eq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkFRgLB7eq0[/video]
The flag of saint George who battled evil forces and won hes a legend and that What God does to he battles and destroys evil forces for you..
 
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#18
I just dont think the world appreciates what saint George and his army did for the world... the uk colonised 3 quaters of the world and what an achievement,,, why is america so great eh...? It because we colonised your country and made it Bigger yup....
 
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#20
it could even be your calling...