Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

me you personally were sooooooo offended i mentioned repentance you didnt clearly read my words and claimed i had a belief i never had when i stated before hand those werent my beliefs.... if you did it to me i wouldnt be surprised if u did it to many...

i dont need to pull it up


maybe i was the ONLY one

but cmon man "cake taker?"

WHEN did I get offended at the word repentance.....which post? and so what.....people on this site (including you) are prone to read things in or wrong at times pal....it is proven that we do not read every word, but that our brains fills in the blanks and finishes words for us....so what....

The word repentance is biblical........that does not change the fact that this thread is aimed at salvation based upon FAITH void of works....end of story....SPONGEBOB, the "workers for" and "CAKE TAKERS" all interject works and defend a false gospel with no power to save.....You on the side of truth or on the side of compromise?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Another day of toil and labor for the "cake takers" and "workers for"..........only to stand before JESUS and denied entrance because WORKS will not earn, keep, embellish, facilitate salvation......PLENTEOUS in number will boast of their works as their means of entrance....not happening....what a sad day for the workers for....

ME....I rest in Christ and his faith...........It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe<-----How dense does one have to be to reject this simple statement of truth.....

GOD SAVES those that BELIEVE<----NO WORKS mentioned or added.............

TRUST JESUS and simply acknowledge him by FAITH.........works will not get you there or keep you there......period!

They will find out one day, When they stand in front of God pridefully telling God how holy and righteous they were. And jesus says. Oh really, You think that huh, lets take a look and see (then they find out how utterly sinful they were and how us grace people tried to warn them. but they would not hear it)

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

WHEN did I get offended at the word repentance.....which post? and so what.....people on this site (including you) are prone to read things in or wrong at times pal....it is proven that we do not read every word, but that our brains fills in the blanks and finishes words for us....so what....

The word repentance is biblical........that does not change the fact that this thread is aimed at salvation based upon FAITH void of works....end of story....SPONGEBOB, the "workers for" and "CAKE TAKERS" all interject works and defend a false gospel with no power to save.....You on the side of truth or on the side of compromise?

welp youre right

i never heard the term

sounds insulting but a spiritual man judges
so i guess i take that back



also when i reread your statement


you didnt specify you thought that belief
you just argued against something i didnt say


you never directed that at me


so i was wrong and i may have misjudged you

also been in the flesh holding a grudge over that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The daily not of works crowd: Just another day to vigorously argue in favour of sin. I would suppose they perceive themselves to be on a fanatical mission from God like the Blues Brothers, no?

Oh boy,,

A bit of warning brother. If your going to slander people, and say things which are not true,, Then no one will listen to you, they will see you as an arrogant person who thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong..

The lie that we love sin, Has been going on for centuries, and I am sure it will go on until christ returns, What it will never be, is a statement of fact.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

dc to me you seem like someone who tries to justify sin and condem those who speak of repenting


if youre going to speak of salvation you should bring up the change of heart Jesus provides in those who do have faith



youre right


no amount of works will ever gain a sinner access to heaven

correct



but no one with faith is the same before and after they recieve the gift of Faith

and everyone here would agree with you.

Faith is followed by works, That is because faith produces works.. It does not sit still it acts..

 

[dcontroversal]

welp youre right

i never heard the term

sounds insulting but a spiritual man judges
so i guess i take that back



also when i reread your statement


you didnt specify you thought that belief
you just argued against something i didnt say


you never directed that at me


so i was wrong and i may have misjudged you

also been in the flesh holding a grudge over that

Believe it or not bro...I do think you say some good things...I have no issue with you at all....so peace bro.....just rememebr that when one is new here...they do not yet fully know the players and the ongoing Nuclear strikes taking place and the back and forth banter MIGO HAHAH peace Jaime

 

[FranC]

You have been here what 9 days or so....go read every thread I have posted in and then come back bro....I have NEVER condemned one who preaches repentance pal.....nor do I EXCUSE SIN, but rather I ACKNOWLEDGE the bible's perspective on it....this thread is about salvation based upon faith void of works....NOT A THREAD ON SIN AND REPENTANCE....

Hi Dcon

I'm tired of arguing this but I do have a simple question for you because I really do have problems with those who say that all we need is faith for salvation.

Alll we need is FAITH FOR SALVATION. Good. No argument there.

AFTER we are saved, are we supposed to do good works?

You say above:

....this thread is about salvation based upon faith void of works

Salvation is based on Faith. James, who spent over three years with Jesus, says that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
James 2:14-20

James 2:14-20New International Version (NIV)

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]?


James clearly states that faith without works is useless.

So, here's the question again:

AFTER salvation, are we required to do works?

Why do you think James said faith without works is useless?

Thanks.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Dcon

I'm tired of arguing this but I do have a simple question for you because I really do have problems with those who say that all we need is faith for salvation.

Alll we need is FAITH FOR SALVATION. Good. No argument there.

AFTER we are saved, are we supposed to do good works?

You say above:

....this thread is about salvation based upon faith void of works

Salvation is based on Faith. James, who spent over three years with Jesus, says that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
James 2:14-20

James 2:14-20New International Version (NIV)

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]?


James clearly states that faith without works is useless.

So, here's the question again:

AFTER salvation, are we required to do works?

Why do you think James said faith without works is useless?

Thanks.

Hey Fran, No one states that we are not to do works after salvation...the premise is simple....

Before God men are saved and justified by faith void of any works <--Paul, Romans
Before MEN the invisible faith that saves and justifies before GOD void of works is SEEN by MEN in our works

The whole key to JAMES is SHOW ME YOUR FAITH......

I, EG, Mailmandan, ETC....have never denied that one who is saved will produce fruit and or works.....the contention is and has been do the works save us or keep us saved and the answer is NO


any work or fruit that is produced is the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in JESUS

even nature teaches this....AN apple tree is an apple tree from the day it sprouts from seed (spiritual birth and salvation)
after a period of GROWTH and maturity it finally produces....it may only be one apple or it may be an abundance....but the fruit is the result...not the source!

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

Hi Dcon

I'm tired of arguing this but I do have a simple question for you because I really do have problems with those who say that all we need is faith for salvation.

Alll we need is FAITH FOR SALVATION. Good. No argument there.

AFTER we are saved, are we supposed to do good works?

You say above:

....this thread is about salvation based upon faith void of works

Salvation is based on Faith. James, who spent over three years with Jesus, says that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
James 2:14-20

James 2:14-20New International Version (NIV)

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]?


James clearly states that faith without works is useless.

So, here's the question again:

AFTER salvation, are we required to do works?

Why do you think James said faith without works is useless?

Thanks.

if thats you in your default... i must say youre very well spoken young lady

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Dcon

I'm tired of arguing this but I do have a simple question for you because I really do have problems with those who say that all we need is faith for salvation.

Alll we need is FAITH FOR SALVATION. Good. No argument there.

AFTER we are saved, are we supposed to do good works?

You say above:

....this thread is about salvation based upon faith void of works

Salvation is based on Faith. James, who spent over three years with Jesus, says that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
James 2:14-20

James 2:14-20New International Version (NIV)

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]?


James clearly states that faith without works is useless.

So, here's the question again:

AFTER salvation, are we required to do works?

Why do you think James said faith without works is useless?

Thanks.

If I may, I am confused.

If faith (true) always produces works, Like DCON and yeah, all of us say and agree with.

Then how can someone have true faith in God, and never have works?

and why do people keep asking about it, as if it is something that will not happen..

As for james, He spoke to people who believed God yet had not yet repented and come to true faith, They thought because they believed they were ok.. James is letting them know. It take more tham mental agreement, it takes true faith in God..

Test your faith, If you claim you have faith, But you have no works,, Then most likely your faith is dead, and you need to do some soul searching.

 

[gb9]

If I may, I am confused.

If faith (true) always produces works, Like DCON and yeah, all of us say and agree with.

Then how can someone have true faith in God, and never have works?

and why do people keep asking about it, as if it is something that will not happen..

As for james, He spoke to people who believed God yet had not yet repented and come to true faith, They thought because they believed they were ok.. James is letting them know. It take more tham mental agreement, it takes true faith in God..

Test your faith, If you claim you have faith, But you have no works,, Then most likely your faith is dead, and you need to do some soul searching.

and we have told them this, literally 100"s of times, but some will still insist that we are saying " just believe and good works and striving to not sin are not important........... when, one more time, no one is saying this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and we have told them this, literally 100"s of times, but some will still insist that we are saying " just believe and good works and striving to not sin are not important........... when, one more time, no one is saying this.

it is probably because

1. They have ears but do not hear, eyes but do not see,
or
2. They have been told by their pastors for so long that you believe this,, Their pastor is more trustworthy than you, so you have to be wrong.

 

[gb9]

it is probably because

1. They have ears but do not hear, eyes but do not see,
or
2. They have been told by their pastors for so long that you believe this,, Their pastor is more trustworthy than you, so you have to be wrong.

and I think that is what plays out daily here and all over. Bible teaching vs. church/ man made teaching . it should be one in the same but in many times, way, way different.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and I think that is what plays out daily here and all over. Bible teaching vs. church/ man made teaching . it should be one in the same but in many times, way, way different.

Because we still listen to men, and think they can not do wrong..

If you believe God put that pastor in charge over you, It would be hard to believe that pastor could be wrong.. It is a viscous circle. and one of many reasons I do not agree with a one pastor church..

 

[gb9]

Because we still listen to men, and think they can not do wrong..

If you believe God put that pastor in charge over you, It would be hard to believe that pastor could be wrong.. It is a viscous circle. and one of many reasons I do not agree with a one pastor church..

and also, way too many do not read and study and pray over the entire Bible. they just have the 25 go-to verses that their pastor preaches on.

I wonder how many of the works crowd have actually read the Bible from cover to cover. they may have, but it sure seems that they have not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and also, way too many do not read and study and pray over the entire Bible. they just have the 25 go-to verses that their pastor preaches on.

I wonder how many of the works crowd have actually read the Bible from cover to cover. they may have, but it sure seems that they have not.

remember, the pharisee could quote the whole OT verbatim.

Knowing the words is not enough.. They knew it, And because of their pride. Could not respond properly when someone questioned their understanding of it.. Instead they went on attack mode.

Few came out (Saul and Nicodemus as a few I know if) but not many.

 

[PeterJens]

The more you guys share the more it shows we believe the same things.

1. The differences are on repentance, confession of sin.
2. Walking righteously
3. Security of salvation.
4. Loosing faith and its consequences.

These are differences, but not insurmountable ones.
Our walk and desires are the same so we should be able to encourage one another
in Christ and praise and worship together. Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The more you guys share the more it shows we believe the same things.

1. The differences are on repentance, confession of sin.

True repentance saved, And will always acknowledge sin.

2. Walking righteously

All of Gods children will walk righteously, Just not perfectly. they will never return to the people they were before they were saved by God.

3. Security of salvation.

Salvation is secure Because God said he will perfect He will complete it.. It is not in us, We differ, because of who our faiht is, If our faith is in God and we trust hi, We will always be secure If our faiht is in self. We will never be secure.. Or if we think we are secure, it will not last.

4. Loosing faith and its consequences.

God never fails us, Since God never fails us, We will never lose faith, It may grow week, But it will never be lost.

Again, Saving faith can be lost is based on trust in self not God.. We are not trustworthy thats why when we trust self, or other men (say like our pastors) we think it can be lost..

These are differences, but not insurmountable ones.
Our walk and desires are the same so we should be able to encourage one another
in Christ and praise and worship together. Amen.

I am afraid they are, they are two different gospels.. While they may be close..and seem to be minor.. One leads to hell. Thats a prety major issue.

While we can agree on our likes, The gospel parts of our disagreement can not be agreed on..

 

[PeterJens]

I am afraid they are, they are two different gospels.. While they may be close..and seem to be minor.. One leads to hell. Thats a prety major issue.

So EG you admit you are condemning to hell all those from your previous church,
most of the christian church and yourself if you were still part of this fellowship?

But this does not square with you being saved in the midst of this all.

You realise this is divisive and judgemental.

Now you have stated in the past you are not in a position to say who is saved and
who is not, yet you appear to be saying exactly that now.

It is this tendency to claim the ability to condemn other believing christians that
I find quite shocking. It is no surprise then that believers turn round and say, no it
is you who are bringing condemnation on innocents and leaving the faith.

I also find it hard to believe you know Christ to even talk like this and on this flimsy
projection of our walk and issues with it.

We are called to die for our brothers and sisters in Christ, to love them like Jesus
loved the church yet you seem commited to constant ridicule, mockery and attacks.
Odd for a group who claim to be so full of grace and acceptance.

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

can a good tree produce bad fruit?