Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer
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Let us look at the crowns that saints shall receive,which they believe they are a reward,and whether they get them,or not,they still have salvation,for they are not crowns applying to salvation,but a reward.
But the crowns are given to all the saints.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
No saint is corruptible,for they would not be in heaven if they were corruptible,so this crown uncorruptible is given to all saints,and applies to salvation,for we cannot have salvation if we are corruptible.
Paul also said if he does not keep under his body,and bring it in to subjection,which he is saying to keep it in check,and cease from sinning by not wanting sin,allowing the Spirit to lead him,he would be a castaway.
Castaway.
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
The crown of righteousness is given to all who love Jesus' appearing,which would apply to all the saints,so they all receive this crown.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
The crown of life is given to all those who love Jesus,so the crown of life is given to all the saints,and pertains to eternal life,salvation.
Also notice that the ones who receive this crown are the ones who endure temptation,for when he is tried,he will receive the crown of life,which obviously means that the ones who endure temptation,to not play upon it,beat the temptation,and do not sin,they are the ones that receive the crown of life,which is eternal life given to all the saints who love Jesus,for the only way you can love Jesus is to allow the Spirit to lead you,and abstain from sin,which if you honestly do not want sin by the Spirit you will not sin,and will you say the Spirit will fail,and the fruit of the Spirit that is displayed when a person is led of the Spirit,has no ways of the flesh there,and the Spirit will not lead anyone unless they give up all sin,and do not want any sin,and if a person holds unto sin they are not led of the Spirit.Give up all sin,not the big ones,and keep the little ones,but give up all sin,and all sin is unrighteousness.
Also when it states that the person that endures temptation,and beats it,shall receive the crown of life,then God tells us that He does not tempt us,but we are tempted by our lusts,and enticed,and if we play upon that temptation and sin,then it leads to death.
And then God gives us a big warning worthy to be heeded of the upmost importance,far greater than the finest diamonds,more precious than the purest gold,better than all the riches,and treasures,in the whole world,both possessed,and lost.
God said,do not be deceived.
The person that endures temptation,and does not play upon it,beats it,and does not sin,they shall receive a crown of life,which is not a reward for some and not others,for it is given to all who love Jesus,and is eternal life,and God warns us that if we are tempted,and enticed,and sin,it leads to death,do not be deceived,I repeat,do not be deceived.
If the world cannot get away with sin,then the saints cannot get away with it even more,and if you hold unto sin and do not want to get rid of it,you are in the position of losing you soul,for it leads to death.
Do not be deceived.
The crowns are given to all the saints,for the uncorruptible crown is given to all the saints,for there will be no corrupted saint in heaven.
The crown of righteousness is given to all the saints,who love His appearing,so of course it applies to all saints,for they want to be with Jesus.
The crown of life is given to all saints,for it is given to all who love the Lord,which no one can be in heaven unless they love the Lord.
Some say there are a reward,and some will receive them,and some not,whichever ones they receive,or do not receive,and not pertaining to eternal life,but they are given to all the saints,and do pertain to eternal life,for if you do not receive the uncorruptible crown,then you are corrupted,so how can you be saved,and if you did not receive the crown of righteousness,you did not love Jesus' appearing,and you did not put on the righteousness of Christ,then how are you saved,and if you did not receive the crown of life,you did not love Jesus,so how are you saved.
If they are a reward,and does not pertain to eternal life,will an angel announce before the saints in heaven,attention all saints,welcome to your first day in heaven with your glorified bodies,they feel good don't they,so get used to it for they are yours for eternity,and they never have to be washed.
All saints who love the Lord,loved His appearing,and is uncorrupted,report to the west wing.
All saints who did not love the Lord,did not love His appearing,and was corrupted,report to the east wing,but hey at least you have salvation.
That will not happen,so the crowns are given to all saints,and applies to eternal life,and not a reward that some might get,and some might not get.
And God said,you hold unto sin,it beings forth death,do not be deceived.
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Which this is a good message seeing that so many people that say,I am chosen,hang unto sin,which this is by physical observation,and not hearsay,or a rumor,or heard it through the grapevine,one guy they call the million dollar Mike,that is stingy for money,and heaps it to himself,and likes giving the ladies a hug at Church,and holds unto those things,but in that position he is saved,when God said do not be deceived.
But there is no arguing I suppose,because they will say that OSAS,so they will get rid of all sin before they depart from this earth,but then they have this to contend with,for when they did hold unto sin,at that time they were not led of the Spirit,they were in the position of receiving death of the soul,they erred from the truth,and they were not converted,which means for a period they were not right with God,and lost their relationship with Christ,for they were fleshy,so if it is OSAS how could they ever obtain that position,when they should always be right with God for spiritual salvation at all times,which then that would open up the possibility that it is not OSAS.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully(hold unto sin,and not give it up) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins(the blood of Christ cannot wash it away),
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning(if they actually do repent of their sins,and do not want sin,and go for a time,but then go back to the sins,which some did not actually give up sin when they confessed Christ).
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Tell me a story--will ya, will ya
A real good story, I won't leave till ya
Spill your guts old man
Leave out any secrets, hiding in the closet.
Any skeletons, and all your other sins
Any skeletons, in the closet
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
But they will ignore scriptures,and click their heels three times,and say there's no thing like faith alone,there's no thing like faith alone,there's no thing like faith alone.
I know some people before they read the post,and click on it,will probably think,now what does this numbskull got to say.
But the crowns are given to all the saints.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
No saint is corruptible,for they would not be in heaven if they were corruptible,so this crown uncorruptible is given to all saints,and applies to salvation,for we cannot have salvation if we are corruptible.
Paul also said if he does not keep under his body,and bring it in to subjection,which he is saying to keep it in check,and cease from sinning by not wanting sin,allowing the Spirit to lead him,he would be a castaway.
Castaway.
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
The crown of righteousness is given to all who love Jesus' appearing,which would apply to all the saints,so they all receive this crown.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
The crown of life is given to all those who love Jesus,so the crown of life is given to all the saints,and pertains to eternal life,salvation.
Also notice that the ones who receive this crown are the ones who endure temptation,for when he is tried,he will receive the crown of life,which obviously means that the ones who endure temptation,to not play upon it,beat the temptation,and do not sin,they are the ones that receive the crown of life,which is eternal life given to all the saints who love Jesus,for the only way you can love Jesus is to allow the Spirit to lead you,and abstain from sin,which if you honestly do not want sin by the Spirit you will not sin,and will you say the Spirit will fail,and the fruit of the Spirit that is displayed when a person is led of the Spirit,has no ways of the flesh there,and the Spirit will not lead anyone unless they give up all sin,and do not want any sin,and if a person holds unto sin they are not led of the Spirit.Give up all sin,not the big ones,and keep the little ones,but give up all sin,and all sin is unrighteousness.
Also when it states that the person that endures temptation,and beats it,shall receive the crown of life,then God tells us that He does not tempt us,but we are tempted by our lusts,and enticed,and if we play upon that temptation and sin,then it leads to death.
And then God gives us a big warning worthy to be heeded of the upmost importance,far greater than the finest diamonds,more precious than the purest gold,better than all the riches,and treasures,in the whole world,both possessed,and lost.
God said,do not be deceived.
The person that endures temptation,and does not play upon it,beats it,and does not sin,they shall receive a crown of life,which is not a reward for some and not others,for it is given to all who love Jesus,and is eternal life,and God warns us that if we are tempted,and enticed,and sin,it leads to death,do not be deceived,I repeat,do not be deceived.
If the world cannot get away with sin,then the saints cannot get away with it even more,and if you hold unto sin and do not want to get rid of it,you are in the position of losing you soul,for it leads to death.
Do not be deceived.
The crowns are given to all the saints,for the uncorruptible crown is given to all the saints,for there will be no corrupted saint in heaven.
The crown of righteousness is given to all the saints,who love His appearing,so of course it applies to all saints,for they want to be with Jesus.
The crown of life is given to all saints,for it is given to all who love the Lord,which no one can be in heaven unless they love the Lord.
Some say there are a reward,and some will receive them,and some not,whichever ones they receive,or do not receive,and not pertaining to eternal life,but they are given to all the saints,and do pertain to eternal life,for if you do not receive the uncorruptible crown,then you are corrupted,so how can you be saved,and if you did not receive the crown of righteousness,you did not love Jesus' appearing,and you did not put on the righteousness of Christ,then how are you saved,and if you did not receive the crown of life,you did not love Jesus,so how are you saved.
If they are a reward,and does not pertain to eternal life,will an angel announce before the saints in heaven,attention all saints,welcome to your first day in heaven with your glorified bodies,they feel good don't they,so get used to it for they are yours for eternity,and they never have to be washed.
All saints who love the Lord,loved His appearing,and is uncorrupted,report to the west wing.
All saints who did not love the Lord,did not love His appearing,and was corrupted,report to the east wing,but hey at least you have salvation.
That will not happen,so the crowns are given to all saints,and applies to eternal life,and not a reward that some might get,and some might not get.
And God said,you hold unto sin,it beings forth death,do not be deceived.
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Which this is a good message seeing that so many people that say,I am chosen,hang unto sin,which this is by physical observation,and not hearsay,or a rumor,or heard it through the grapevine,one guy they call the million dollar Mike,that is stingy for money,and heaps it to himself,and likes giving the ladies a hug at Church,and holds unto those things,but in that position he is saved,when God said do not be deceived.
But there is no arguing I suppose,because they will say that OSAS,so they will get rid of all sin before they depart from this earth,but then they have this to contend with,for when they did hold unto sin,at that time they were not led of the Spirit,they were in the position of receiving death of the soul,they erred from the truth,and they were not converted,which means for a period they were not right with God,and lost their relationship with Christ,for they were fleshy,so if it is OSAS how could they ever obtain that position,when they should always be right with God for spiritual salvation at all times,which then that would open up the possibility that it is not OSAS.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully(hold unto sin,and not give it up) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins(the blood of Christ cannot wash it away),
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning(if they actually do repent of their sins,and do not want sin,and go for a time,but then go back to the sins,which some did not actually give up sin when they confessed Christ).
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Tell me a story--will ya, will ya
A real good story, I won't leave till ya
Spill your guts old man
Leave out any secrets, hiding in the closet.
Any skeletons, and all your other sins
Any skeletons, in the closet
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
But they will ignore scriptures,and click their heels three times,and say there's no thing like faith alone,there's no thing like faith alone,there's no thing like faith alone.
I know some people before they read the post,and click on it,will probably think,now what does this numbskull got to say.
Let us get things straight.
One side say, a believer is a sinner though counted as righteous, but does not actually
achieve it. So ofcourse one cannot loose ones salvation, because how much worse can
you get, even if you tried you would never loose it.
On the other side, sin is rebellion against God because we do not have fellowship with
God, but as we grow in stature and depth of our relationship with Him, we get closer to
His heart and likeness. Because the goal is to be like Jesus, it is equally possible to
walk away and loose this goal, going back to the original position of walking in the lusts
of the flesh.
So you can see either construct has its own logic and its own problems with the opposing
view.
One side say, a believer is a sinner though counted as righteous, but does not actually
achieve it. So ofcourse one cannot loose ones salvation, because how much worse can
you get, even if you tried you would never loose it.
On the other side, sin is rebellion against God because we do not have fellowship with
God, but as we grow in stature and depth of our relationship with Him, we get closer to
His heart and likeness. Because the goal is to be like Jesus, it is equally possible to
walk away and loose this goal, going back to the original position of walking in the lusts
of the flesh.
So you can see either construct has its own logic and its own problems with the opposing
view.
E
I have to disagree.. While I do think some parents go overboard. I am thankful my parents, and my God did not spare the rod.
While I agree, many do not understand the chastening of the Lord. Those of us who have been trained by it do understand the pain it causes..
The reason for chastening is to understand our actions causes consequences. And to train us to do what is good, and not things which are damaging to us and others.
While I agree, many do not understand the chastening of the Lord. Those of us who have been trained by it do understand the pain it causes..
The reason for chastening is to understand our actions causes consequences. And to train us to do what is good, and not things which are damaging to us and others.
E
Yes,
And abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Yes, He still sinned after God saved him, But we also see so much works of faith, including the attempted sacrifice of his son in obedience, because he understood. God would keep his promise (where he lacked faith earlier for quite awhile after God promised him that son, so much he sinned to try to fulfill Gods promise his own way) And just like many baby Christians have to grow in faith in Christ and many will never make it to the faith Abraham had at that time.
But abraham proved, He had gained power over sin by faith in God..
And abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Yes, He still sinned after God saved him, But we also see so much works of faith, including the attempted sacrifice of his son in obedience, because he understood. God would keep his promise (where he lacked faith earlier for quite awhile after God promised him that son, so much he sinned to try to fulfill Gods promise his own way) And just like many baby Christians have to grow in faith in Christ and many will never make it to the faith Abraham had at that time.
But abraham proved, He had gained power over sin by faith in God..
E
Actually no one wants to argue with him, It is prety much him arguing with everyone else.
What people do want to do is try to explain to him what they believe, and how he does not understand them, in-spite of the fact he demands he does. And that there is something majorly wrong with what he believes. Whether he believes us or not, that is a different story.
One has to remember, When a man named saul went to kill Christians, He felt he was close to God and doing Gods will.. Just because one claims to be close to God and professes to be, does not make it a reality
Peter says the cross is not enough.. Nothing else needs to be said, In this one thread which HE HIMSELF STARTED, he proved he does not rely on God but on his own righteous works.
What people do want to do is try to explain to him what they believe, and how he does not understand them, in-spite of the fact he demands he does. And that there is something majorly wrong with what he believes. Whether he believes us or not, that is a different story.
One has to remember, When a man named saul went to kill Christians, He felt he was close to God and doing Gods will.. Just because one claims to be close to God and professes to be, does not make it a reality
Peter says the cross is not enough.. Nothing else needs to be said, In this one thread which HE HIMSELF STARTED, he proved he does not rely on God but on his own righteous works.
E
Yep it is pretty obvious.
1. A person who lives in sin has never known God, nor seen him, They have never been saved.
2. Whoever is born of God can not live in sin, Because they have been born of God and have his spirit
So in one verse your whole doctrine was destroyed.. What is funny is that it is a passage you used to try to promote your modern day phariseeism..
PS. You ever going to answer my question?
WHy did God save a person who knew was going to commit sins?
E
I think this is one of the major issues of contention, The true interpretation of what sin is, and how even the smallest of all sins, which we seem to have a habit of blowing off as a non issue, "At least I do not murder rape and commit sexual immorality" in order to excuse that sin, nd make ourselves appear more righteous than we are.
E
Who is trying to mix the two except those who are claiming salvation is based on how sanctified we become?
Rom 6 makes a statement of Fact, We are justified, We have been immersed into Christ completely, that just as we are united wiht him in life, we to shall be unitged wiht him in the resurrection. Our salvation is secure.
You also have to not ignore romans 7 and 8. Romans 7 showing that even as children of God we will still struggle with sin, as we have an inner battle that rages with in us, Yes the flesh is crucified, But it still has power if we do not do what paul said in romans 8, Which is seek after the things of the spirit..
Rom 6 makes a statement of Fact, We are justified, We have been immersed into Christ completely, that just as we are united wiht him in life, we to shall be unitged wiht him in the resurrection. Our salvation is secure.
You also have to not ignore romans 7 and 8. Romans 7 showing that even as children of God we will still struggle with sin, as we have an inner battle that rages with in us, Yes the flesh is crucified, But it still has power if we do not do what paul said in romans 8, Which is seek after the things of the spirit..